Re: Amiri Baraka and the great Jewish debate -- Unlikely Stories

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Date Posted: 12:28:26 12/12/02 Thu
Author: JLW
Subject: Re: Amiri Baraka and the great Jewish debate
In reply to: The Concubine of Satan 's message, "Re: Amiri Baraka and the great Jewish debate" on 11:02:19 12/11/02 Wed

If we make the (admittedly rather large) assupmtion that he views the American government of being white and jew controlled (which, based on interviews I've seen with him, I feel he does), I don't see how this contradicts with anything I said and I am not in disagreement.

However, in my opinion, he'd be wrong.

Also, I feel this debate turning personal, which is something I have no interest in participating in, but I would just like to say that I do not think I am closed minded. I would ,as a poet, have loved for a poem of such noteriety to have been insightful and revealing and respectful. Instead, it was crap, and my love for poetry doesn't make me want to defend all poetry, no matter the quality. He certainly has the right to write it, but that doesn't make it any good and it doesn't make it true and I think that we can all agree that the paramount quality of the poem is that it is controversial, and not really of much substance.

And while we've both called each other names, I'm sure, Shari, I tried to make peace with you, for the sake of him, and was greeted by a slap in the face so now I have no use for you whatsoever and I will achieve my peace by keeping you out of my life and that is why I will not respond to any other passive aggressive attacks you make on me.

>
>I have read this poem several times and been reading
>the ongoing "debate" about it. You know,
>close-mindedness is darkest in the form of
>reactionism. In the inability to see any other issue
>or side of a concept or an argument because you have
>already decided that the way you see it is the only
>way to see it.
>
>This poem has struck me from the first and continues
>to strike me as being about the American government,
>capitalism, and the shadow governments capitalism
>gives birth to. It's not a very good poem, LeRoi has
>always ridden the coattails of the Beats and made a
>name for himself by scribbling lines and being in the
>right place at the right time. With all of this
>discussion on his poem, he has gained more notariety
>than is rightfully his due.
>
>In my opinion, the references to Jews are about the
>State of Israel and the issue that the American
>government continues to protect the rights and lands
>of people it has invested money in while ignoring the
>rights of anyone else, period.
>
>Who got fat from plantations
>Who genocided Indians
>Tried to waste the Black nation
>
>Who stole Puerto Rico
>Who stole the Indies, the Philipines, Manhattan
>Australia & The Hebrides
>Who forced opium on the Chinese
>
>British settlers, the first Americans, the American
>government, capatilism born...
>
>Who killed the most niggers
>Who killed the most Jews
>Who killed the most Italians
>Who killed the most Irish
>Who killed the most Africans
>Who killed the most Japanese
>Who killed the most Latinos
>
>This section struck me as speaking of all in
>power...Mussolini, Hitler, the Brits and the Potato
>Famine, our CIA dealings in South America and all over
>the world...
>
>Who got rich from Armenian genocide
>
>This would be the Turks and the American government
>who turned a blind eye, and the companies involved who
>made money and protected their interests...
>
>Who the biggest terrorist
>Who change the bible
>Who killed the most people
>Who do the most evil
>Who don't worry about survival
>
>Who invaded Grenada
>Who made money from apartheid
>Who keep the Irish a colony
>Who overthrow Chile and Nicaragua later
>
>Great Britain, America...protecting monetary interests
>and political power...
>
>Who put the Jews in ovens,
>and who helped them do it
>Who said "America First"
>and ok'd the yellow stars
>
>Were the Jews responsible for this?
>
>Who blew up the Maine
>& started the Spanish American War
>Who got Sharon! back in Power
>Who backed Batista, Hitler, Bilbo,
>Chiang kai Chek
>
>Again, this is all dealing with capitalism and shadow
>government...
>
>Who would tell Sharon and Israeli workers to stay away
>from the WTC? Our government would. We have money
>invested there. We have an American friendly
>government in place in the Middle East. The only one.
>Without Israel the government loses a lot. Special
>interest groups that lobby for the companies that
>continue to make money in a mostly untapped market
>would lose a lot.
>
>And if you decide to take the poem out of a literal
>meaning and look at it metaphorically, I feel he is
>saying that while the Bin Laden and the terrorists we
>have pointed fingers at are responsible, it is
>capitalism, our goverment, any government, every evil
>perpetrated in the name of money and power is
>ultimately responsible. In short, we brought this on
>ourselves by being the bullies on the block from the
>start.
>
>And in my opinion, he'd be right.
>
>~Shari
>

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