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No To Noahides
Welcome, if you have been brought to this site after a web search then I presume you are already somewhat aware of the Noahide Movement. This forum is dedicated to exposing the Noahide movement for the antichrist system that it is. My hope is that as people people become aware of this heresy and realize just what it represents, that they will become active witnesses against the Noahide movement and for the cause of Christ.
Is This Forum Dead? -- Gary Schooley, 07:44:36 01/24/04 Sat

Is this forum Dead? There hasn't been much activity here at all for a long time, but there's still pertinent things to discuss. I use this forum often as a reference when educating people about Noahide - I hope it continues to remain online, even if it isn't active.

Gary

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The Big Trap -- Gary Schooley, 18:24:06 01/31/04 Sat

The Big Trap

Since Noahide plans on beheading anyone who shows any reverence for Jesus, what will happen to all who celebrate the pagan-Catholic holidays of Christmas, Easter, Halloween, All Saint's Day, Good Friday and Ash Wednesday? Will there be people secretly celebrating these holidays in an underground way, trying to hide it from the beheaders? What will come of the billions of superstitious people attempting to celebrate these pagan-Catholic inventions?

It seems like these holidays will becomes the biggest trap of all, thanks to the Roman Catholic church. Anyone who has studied the Roman Catholic church, especially if they have studied the pagan origins of those "christian" holidays, and extra especially if they have studied the Scriptures, knows that those holidays are NOT of God and are NOT pleasing to Him.

Yes, it appears that quite a trap has been set. People will have to either hide it (their celebration of those holidays), renounce them, or loose their heads over it. What will they do? When faced with a real guillotine, most "christians" would quickly renounce any faith in Jesus - FEW would actually step up and willingly loose their heads.

It's going to be a bloody mess, as they are bound to apprehend groups secretly celebrating those abominations. By that time, after the Talmudic Jews have made it clear to the public that worshipping Jesus in ANY form, is a crime, punishable by capital punishment, when they do catch them, there will be no excuse for them; they might not give them a chance to recant and renounce Jesus to save their necks! After all, it is one of the stated goals of the New World Order to "Kill all useless eaters", and the Georgia Guide Stones even call for a world population reduction to below
500,000,000. Executing all who celebrate those pagan-Catholic holidays will fit right in with that plan, won't it?!

What a tragic waste of humanity. All for the sake of celebrating pagan-Catholic inventions! Oh well, it's no wonder Jesus warned that FEW would enter his kingdom; that he will tell all but a FEW to depart into everlasting punishment - FEW really know Him; FEW really care to look into the blasphemous abominations they are celebrating in His name.

What a trap!

Gary

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Greetings from a Noahide -- Daniel Daly, 03:20:07 12/27/02 Fri

Hello everybody

I am one of those Noahides that you are so opposed to. I came out of Christianity with the revelation that worship of Jesus is actually idolatry (it violates the 1st and 2nd commandments of the 10 commandments)

I am not out to ruin any christians life, as I am sure the coming Davidic Messiah likewise will not want to do. I hope you guys don't have a too-negative viewpoint on us.

Anyway, here is a website which shows my beliefs

http://www.geocities.com/xaddadaxx/Index.html

Sincerely

Daniel Daly
Canberra, Australia

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Replies:

[> Re: Greetings from a Noahide -- Michael von Shearer, North America, 15:53:56 01/01/03 Wed

With all the debate about
following the Noahide Laws,
please remember what
Christ taught:
Our God is one God.
Love Him as you love yourself.

To even your enemies,
do good.

If they are sick, or hungry,
or naked,

heal them, feed them, and
clothe them.

There's lots of other good stuff
Christ said as well. Read his
"Red Letter" words in the Gospels
of Mathew, Mark, Luke and John.

I suspect about the Noahide Laws
things, That they're a huge TRAP.

Some aspects of Judaism and Zionism
consider worship of Christ Idolatry.
It seems that any believe that Christ
is God, or Detity, or was antthing
other than a deceiver and a sorcerer
must be eventually exterminated.

Right now they have 95% of Israel
excluded from non-Jewish ownership,
leasing, or even rental. It could
happen here under the Noahide Laws.

The Noahdie Laws could one day
be used even as an excuse to exterminate
Christians.

I'll stick with complete
Freedom of religion myself.

Mik







>Hello everybody
>
>I am one of those Noahides that you are so opposed to.
> I came out of Christianity with the revelation that
>worship of Jesus is actually idolatry (it violates the
>1st and 2nd commandments of the 10 commandments)
>
>I am not out to ruin any christians life, as I am sure
>the coming Davidic Messiah likewise will not want to
>do. I hope you guys don't have a too-negative
>viewpoint on us.
>
>Anyway, here is a website which shows my beliefs
>
>http://www.geocities.com/xaddadaxx/Index.html
>
>Sincerely
>
>Daniel Daly
>Canberra, Australia

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[> Re: Greetings from a Noahide -- Joshua Immanuel, 02:04:23 01/14/03 Tue

I am a Noahide too. I never knew the Salvation of The Lord God until I covenanted to walk in His Torah. Now I am Saved!

Shalom

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[> [> Re: Greetings from a Noahide -- Ray, 05:21:18 08/07/03 Thu

At least you're honest about where you stand. Some come pretending that they are somehow Christian-Noahides (whatever that would be).

If you think you can be saved by keeping the law then go for it. Jesus said it won't work. But nobody can force you to take His word for it.

I think you'd find a lot more love and happiness under grace than under the law, but it's your decision, good luck.

Ray

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[> Re: Greetings from a Noahide -- Gary Schooley, 15:39:21 08/10/03 Sun

If you "came out of Christianity", you never were a real Christian in the first place. You never KNEW Jesus; you never shed one tear of remorse or repentance; you never allowed Him to come into your heart and be Lord of your life; and, you never had any real allegiance to Him for what he did for you. You have never known the sheer JOY of knowing beyond a shadow of a doubt, that all your sins are forgiven; that your name is written in Jesus' book of life.

It's no surprise really. The bulk and majority who profess "christianity" (85% in America), clearly have not, do not and will not ever know the Lord on a personal level. Do you think that the remaining 15%, who do not pretend to be Christian, are responsible for the woes that plague the rest? I think not. The world is full of false and damning (invented) religions; you and yours is no exception. Now, you have NO ATONEMENT FOR SIN. I guess you must ignore this, too:

Hebrews 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

Once again, as Jesus warned, FEW will enter his kingdom; all but a few will perish, because FEW really dare to KNOW him. That's why he put it on a personal level, and will say to so many religious hypocrites, "Depart... - I never KNEW you"
(remember those words, you'll be hearing them again!)

Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy
name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

In studying and writing about religious hypocrisy vs. true, born again Christianity, I have found one common denominator; one common thread that runs through them all: avoidance of faith in the atoning blood of Jesus. In the many invented religions, Satan uses many different ways to accomplish this. In some religions, it's rather blatant, while in others (like Catholicism), it's much more subtle and subversive. But, they all work to deny, pervert and otherwise destroy the child like faith that Jesus requires.

Meanwhile, how do you deal with the IRREFUTABLE FACT that Noahide intends to fulfill Scripture prophesies exactly, particularly where beheading Christians is concerned?

Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Only Noahide comes close to fulfilling this. How does it feel to be used by Satan to kill so many Christians (future tense)? How will YOU answer God for your role in that? You have no atonement; what sacrifice for sin will you have?

Well, thanks for once again for illustrating how shallow religious "christians" shop for a religion like people shopping for vegetables in the grocery. Thanks for showing
how easily so many "christians" can never really KNOW Jesus, and WHY he'll one day send so many away to eternal separation from God.

Shame on you, hupocrite, for ever pretending to be a born again Christian! You never were.

Have a VERY good life! Your eternity IS bleak!

Gary Schooley





Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

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[> Re: Greetings from a Noahide -- Jonathon, 14:46:10 02/10/04 Tue

Poor deluded fool.

Don't you see that once they have forcibly converted all to a Noahide Regime, Zionists everywhere will seek to turn the entire earth into a mirror image of the oppression of Palestine?

If Zionist Jews in Israel can not treat Arabs with Justice, then how the hell do you expect they will treat the rest of humanity (if given the chance)?

With decapitation for all who refuse!

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prophetic ministries -- bob, 15:18:32 05/01/04 Sat

http://www.ministryofdreams.freeservers.com

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Thanks -- Sebastian, 06:38:11 07/12/04 Mon

Thank you! Very nice Page/Guestbook :).

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premiere abo bestellen - -- Joe, 01:55:01 09/04/04 Sat

Premiere Abo . premiere abo bestellen ! best regards, Sue

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Lastminute -- Dani, 02:08:01 10/14/04 Thu

Last Minute Reisen

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For friendly advice during times of crisis, please feel free to contact me. -- www.keen.com/twinx1986, 15:25:38 11/06/04 Sat

www.keen.com/twinx1986 or call me at: 1 800 ASK KEEN ext. 0476381.

Offering compassionate, discreet guidance during your time of need.

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A Dispensational Approach To The Bible! -- The Berean, 16:40:31 12/28/04 Tue

A Dispensational Approach To The Bible!

“Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the Word of Truth” (11 Tim. 2:15).

In Eph 2 the Apostle Paul sets forth the basic three-fold division in God’s dealing with mankind: Time Past (vs 11,12), But Now v. 13), the Ages to Come (v. 7). When the Bible is “laid out” according to this divinely inspired design we easily get an overview of not only that we are reading but when and to whom it was written. Thus the Word of God itself provides us with the key to its own proper understanding and right division:

Time Past: Eph. 2:11-12 sets forth the basic issue in Time Past as the division between the Circumcision and the Uncircumcision, between the nation Israel and the Gentiles. When you find this issue governing the way God was working with man, you know you are in Time Past. This covers the “Old Testament” (see Gen. 17:9-14. Deut. 4:5-8, Num. 23:9) as well as Matthew thru John (see Rom. 15:8, Matt. 105-6; 15:24; John 4:22 and the early Acts period (see Luke 24:47, Acts 1:6-8; 2:14,22,36:5:32:11:19).

But Now: Eph. 2:13 indicates that in the But Now portion Gentiles are no longer “far off” but rather the “middle wall of partition” between Israel and the Gentiles has been eliminated and now “those who were far off are made nigh.” Romans thru Philemon provide the doctrine for the dispensation of grace (Rom. 11:13; 15:16; 16:25, 1 Cor. 14:37, Eph. 3:1-9).

The Ages to Come: God will bring His purposes to fruition and thus Eph. 2:7 points to the Ages to Come. The books of Hebrews thru Revelation focus on this.

The chart below will demonstrate the importance of the secret, hidden nature of the present dispensation of grace (Eph. 3:1-9). Click on the dispensation chart below hide the “mystery” section and you will see the perfect continuity of that “which God hath spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began” (Acts 3:21). The chart will reveal the mystery program and you will visualize how the prophetic program has been temporarily interrupted by “the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, But now is made manifest” (Rom. 16:25-26).

The present dispensation of grace is “the mystery” hid in God until first revealed to the Apostle Paul (Eph. 3:1-9, Col. 1”24-26, Rom. 16:25-26, 1 Tim. 2:4-7, Tit. 1:2-3, etc.) Thus in Paul’s writings alone we find the doctrine, position, walk and destiny of the body of Christ. Remember: While all Scripture is for us, all Scripture is not written to or about us, all Scripture is not written to or about us. This is the key to understanding the Bible.

Rightly Dividing The Truth Chart


You can read this Bible study by clicking on the link below:
Paul’s Gospel


"Faith Alone in Christ Alone = Salvation"

E-mail this message to all yours friends.

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Salvation FREE and Eternal -- Cecil Spivey, 11:21:43 06/14/05 Tue

Salvation FREE and Eternal
By – Cecil Spivey

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: John 1:12

That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. John 3:15-18

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. John 5:24

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.] My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. John 10:27-29

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. John 14:6

Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. Acts 4:12

Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins: And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses. Acts 13:38-39

And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. Acts 16:31

But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Romans 4:5

Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. Romans 5:1

Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth. Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 8:33-39

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Romans 10:9-10

And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. Romans 11:6

Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve: 1 Cor. 15:1-5

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. Eph. 2:8-9

Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Titus 3:5

These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God. 1 John 5:13

ONLY ONE CROSS FOR ALL DISPENSATIONS

Now it is quite true that God has different ages and dispensations and different programs with people but none of the dispensational or racial differences in any way affect the "gospel of Christ" that was foreordained for the salvation of any member of Adam's family that would "call upon the name of the Lord". Joel 2:32; Acts 2:21; Rom. 10:13; Acts 10:43; 15:10-11; 13:38-39. (Please honestly read these.) Though all penitent believers in Christ have His death baptism and His burial and resurrection put to their credit.

P. S.

If all the above Scriptures does not teach that the True Believer has Eternal life now and can not lose it. God’s word has no meaning. If you could loose Salvation, you could not be saved again no more than you can be born into the human family two times. You are born into the human family only once and you are born into God’s family only once.

Read: Paul’s Gospel

Faith Alone in Christ Alone = Salvation

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For friendly, spiritual guidance during your time of need, I am here for you. -- Twinx, 10:33:48 07/07/05 Thu



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NEW WORLD ORDER = NEW STONE AGE -- Annunaki Nibiru, 15:35:12 07/29/05 Fri



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The Noahide system of law -- QUITTNER, 11:38:00 09/10/02 Tue

Ray, you wrote, in part: >>> The so called Noahide system of law did not appear for several hundred years after the time of Christ in one of the volumes that comprise the Talmud. <<<
..... According to The World Christian Encyclopedia (2001) there are (were?) 33,820 distinct Christian denominations across the world, and one more or less is probably not important. What is important, however, is to what extent the members of a given denomination (version) adhere to the teachings of Jesus. Why did you single out just one of these versions to oppose, yet ignored the many others? I can understand that Paul, in his efforts to produce a "universal=catholic" religion wanted to make it much easier for non-Jews to join his new religion by discarding many of the requirements, including (some? many? all?) moral ones, of the Judaism of his days.
..... As I understand it, the Talmud is just a record of discussions and pronouncements of Jewish clergy, and includes the up to then unwritten oral law, based on the Pentateuch (the 5 books of Moses, a part of the collection of many books selected by a committee, known as the bible). It is very likely that they discussed the split between the Jewish Christians and the non-Jewish Christians, and to what extent these groups helped or oppposed the Romans; by the time the verious tractates of the Talmud were written that split had been in effect for very many years.

>>> The Noahide system is as far from Christianity as night is from day. <<<
..... But so are many (most? all?) of the many other current denominations/versions of Christianity.

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Replies:

[> Re: The Noahide system of law -- Ray, 01:17:24 09/15/02 Sun

>Ray, you wrote, in part: >>> The so called Noahide
>system of law did not appear for several hundred years
>after the time of Christ in one of the volumes that
>comprise the Talmud. <<<
>..... According to The World Christian Encyclopedia
>(2001) there are (were?) 33,820 distinct Christian
>denominations across the world, and one more or less
>is probably not important.

The Noahide Movement is not at all a Christian Denomination.
It doesn't even claim to be. It is a movement among certain Jewish Cabalist Sects, notably the Lubavitchers, to convince Christians to abandon Christ.

The basic doctrine is that God gave the Noahide Laws to Adam and Noah and they applied to all mankind, but then the world forgot them. Moses gave the Mosaic Law to the Children of Israel and then (remember this is all from the Talmud)Moses reaffirmed the Noahide Laws for gentiles.

The laws themselves are nothing. The criminal points (murder, theft, sexual misconduct etc) are covered not only in the Mosaic Law but also in every other code of Law on earth.

What is important is the religious restrictions against idolatry and blasphemy. While I agree that idolatry and blasphemy are sins, the Noahide Laws proclaims them to be capital offenses. And the judges of a Noahide court are not Christian, they are subject to Talmudic authority. The Talmud clearly defines Christianity, (the teaching that Christ is the son of God) as blasphemy and idolatry.

I don't know if you visited the sites I mentioned but they don't even hesitate to declare their intention to outlaw Christianity and to execute those who refuse to submit.

If they were just a fringe group of society I would pay them no mind at all but they are the largest and most influential of the orthodox hassidic cults. They have powerful lobbies under their control and they wield a tremendous amount of wealth and power. They have already succeeded in having the US government endorse the Noahide Laws. For now it is mostly just in writing. But there is a new Judicial program in the US called Justice 2020 that has been adopted by many states. It gives far reaching powers to judges to dispense with due process and to more or less become judge and jury.

I cannot convince anyone, you have to research for yourself and make your own decision. But be aware that something very sinister is going on behind the scenes.


What is important, however,
>is to what extent the members of a given denomination
>(version) adhere to the teachings of Jesus. Why did
>you single out just one of these versions to oppose,
>yet ignored the many others?

As I said the Noahide Movement is not a Christian group nor does it claim to be.

>I can understand that
>Paul, in his efforts to produce a "universal=catholic"
>religion wanted to make it much easier for non-Jews to
>join his new religion by discarding many of the
>requirements, including (some? many? all?) moral ones,
>of the Judaism of his days.

Here you need to look at the Bible. The passage that Noahides point to in the New Testament to pretend that the early Christians promoted legalism is not by Paul it is quoting the decision of the Jerusalem Council and yes I agree with you it was meant to discard many requirements of the Mosaic Law for Christians. It does not mention Noah nor the so called Noahide Laws.
The Noahides use this passage to say essentially that Paul and the early Christians blew it by later preaching salvation by grace. They say that the original intent of Christ and the Church was to set up a 2 people of God legalist system. The Jews keeping the Mosaic Law as the principal people of God and the Gentiles keeping the Noahide Laws (under the direction of the Rabbis) as the second people of God.
To the Noahide promoters there is no salvation in Christ.
Salvation comes from adhering to the Noahide Laws and submitting to rabbinical authority.



>..... As I understand it, the Talmud is just a record
>of discussions and pronouncements of Jewish clergy,
>and includes the up to then unwritten oral law, based
>on the Pentateuch (the 5 books of Moses, a part of the
>collection of many books selected by a committee,
>known as the bible).

I don't know the depth of your understanding of the Talmud.
If you are sincere, it is apparent that you know very little about it. If you are insincere, that is the whole problem in itself.

The "unwritten oral law" (the Mishnah) is what Christ condemned as the traditions of men that nullify the word of God.

The Talmud openly states that it is the duty of Jews to kill all gentiles. The Talmud openly states that Jesus was a blasphemer and was duly executed. The Talmud states that when the Messiah comes it will be to wipe out all nations except Israel especially Christian. This list could go on and on.

>It is very likely that they discussed the split between >the Jewish Christians and the non-Jewish Christians, and >to what extent these groups helped or oppposed the Romans; >by the time the various tractates of the Talmud were >written that split had been in effect for very many years.
>

Opposing the Romans was a dead issue long before the Talmud was written. There is no discussion of Jewish vs Non Jewish Christians in the Talmud. All Christians are considered Minim (blasphemers).

The Noahide system is as far from Christianity as
night is from day.

>.. But so are many of the many other current denominations/versions of Christianity.

I can agree on that point, and some of those denominations have already embraced the Noahide Movement as a compromise between Christianity and Judaism.

If you think that's a good idea and you fancy a religion that insists you deny the divinity of Christ and that you accept rabbinical authority over your religion and that you base your salvation on the keeping of a few little legalistic laws instead of the blood of Jesus shed for the remission of sins, then far be it from me to discourage you. Go for it. Best of luck.

As for me and my house we'll stick with Jesus.

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[> [> Re: The Noahide system of law -- rf, 21:57:13 04/04/03 Fri

the point here is that the Christian gosspels are not what Jesus taught, those are the teachings of Paul and the other people that invented the doctrines, and they are very inconsistent with biblical teachings,

If you review the codes, one statute is " No ghost meeting", oh well, there were tons of ghost meethings with Paul and the others.

Second, the Chalcedonian congress is the definition of christianortodoxy, fix up this, change that, correct here, lie a little there.

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[> [> [> Re: The Noahide system of law -- QUITTNER, 10:57:41 05/30/03 Fri

rf, as I see it, very many changes were made to Christianity after Jesus was crucified. Originally Christians were a special group of Jews, including Jesus, who always OBEYED God (not the Romans? not clergy?) and sinned no more. These days, as far as I know, the will of God (THY WILL BE DONE...) is not enforced by clergy, only by the secular judicial systems. Was the Noahide system of law part of the WILL of God?

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[> [> [> [> Re: The Noahide system of law -- Ray, 04:07:49 08/07/03 Thu

>rf, as I see it, very many changes were made to
>Christianity after Jesus was crucified.

Christianty didn't even truly get off the ground until after Jesus was crucified. Only then was the Holy Spirit able to come and dwell in the hearts of the disciples.

>Originally Christians were a special group of Jews, > including Jesus, who always OBEYED God (not the Romans?
> not clergy?) and sinned no more.




Wrong, wrong, and wrong.

Originally Christians were a chosen group of humans.
It was indeed in the Palestinian province called Judea
that Jesus came, and the Old Testament preparation for His coming had occurred there, and had involved the local people who were called Jews. So yes the first disciples of Jesus were Jews.

But the angels at His birth announced good tidings of great joy that would be to ALL peoples. And even in the Old Testament; when God spoke to Abraham of Jesus, the Seed of Abraham, He said that in Him ALL nations (goyim) would be blessed. So the fact that the initial disciples were Jewish
doesn't at all suggest that Jewishness was a prerequisite to being a disciple.

As to not sinning, you need to reread the scriptures. All have sinned and come short of the glory of God. Only a liar or a fool pretends to be anything but a sinner. Jesus came to call sinners to repentence. He cannot help the "righteous".

And yes indeed, the Christians obeyed the Romans. The ordained power that God had placed over them. Jesus said to render under Caesar the things that were Caesars' (taxes etc). But the Christians didn't obey the antichrist Pharisees who had no such legal authority.


These days, as far as I
>know, the will of God (THY WILL BE DONE...) is not
>enforced by clergy, only by the secular judicial
>systems. Was the Noahide system of law part of the
>WILL of God?

The will of God is enforced by God himself. It has never been enforced by clergy of any kind. That is the very AC plan in a nutshell, "Man" trying to impose his own rule and pass it off as the will of God. When that happens God gets very mad.

And no the Talmudic set of rules you call the Noahide Laws (ridiculous to call it a system of Law) were never a part of anything except the imagination of a lot of lost and very confused Kabalists in exile during the middle ages. They certainly never had the least thing to do with the will of God.

Ray

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[> [> [> [> [> Re: The Noahide system of law -- QUITTNER, 12:04:14 08/11/03 Mon

Ray, you are as entitled to your views/opinions, as I am to mine; they obviously are not very similar because mine are based on what Jesus was teaching, and what were the general conditions in that area during Jesus' time, while yours are based on a much later version of Christianity, after all sorts of changes were made to it.
..... As far as I am concerned, this is the end of THIS thread.

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[> [> [> Re: The Noahide system of legalistic heresy -- Ray, 03:06:55 08/07/03 Thu

>the point here is that the Christian gosspels are not
>what Jesus taught, those are the teachings of Paul and
>the other people that invented the doctrines, and they
>are very inconsistent with biblical teachings,

So now you're saying that the Gospels aren't Biblical.
That makes it pretty clear how you feel about Jesus. Just how is it that you seem to know better what Jesus taught than the disciples He chose for the very reason of establishing His church and recording His words.

>If you review the codes, one statute is " No ghost
>meeting", oh well, there were tons of ghost meethings
>with Paul and the others.

One thing to remember here is that, unlike the Noahide Flaws, Christianity does not intend to impose itself on you. You are perfectly free to choose not to follow the counsel of Paul and the other apostles. If you don't think the New Testament is Biblical, and you prefer the Talmud, that is your choice. You are free to believe as you like.

But then don't try to turn around and impose your Talmudic laws on the rest of us. For one thing Jesus wouldn't like it. Neither would I.

Ray

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[> [> Re: The Noahide system of law, posted on Sept. 15th, '02 -- QUITTNER, 12:46:19 06/02/03 Mon

Ray, I have access to a library that has some of the many books of the Talmud in English translation. Could you please refer me to the sources of your statement that
"The Talmud openly states that it is the duty of Jews to kill all gentiles. The Talmud openly states that Jesus was a blasphemer and was duly executed. The Talmud states that when the Messiah comes it will be to wipe out all nations except Israel especially Christian. This list could go on and on."
I?d like to look these up in the Talmud. Thanks.

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[> Re: The Noahide system of law -- General Bates, 23:48:32 06/18/03 Wed

General Bates speaks:Please let me clarify something, if you please. The Noachide Laws were given to Noah after the Flood, according to the Rabbinical Authorities (See Genesis:9, also Deuteronomy 17:10-12 for an affirmation of the authority of the Rabbis to interpret the Law), and they entail these Seven Laws:

1)No Idol Worship
2)"Bless" the Divine Name
3)NO Murder
4)NO Stealing
5)NO Animal Cruelty/Blood consuming
6)NO Sexual Immorality
7)Honor Just COurts

They incorporate the general principles that a Gentile would live by in order to please G-d. They are not the Ten Commandments because those were given to Jews specifically. Of course, "Reform" Judaism, liberal Judaism, does not see these as absolutes any more than it sees Torah Judaism as absolute. However, they are absolute. They are not a religion, but the Laws by which G-d is pleased.
In no sense are they Christian, except that they comprised the outward behavior of a righteous Gentile, an expectation expressed by the Rabbis of moral behavior that was unquestioned by the early Christians, if interpreted differently (If you doubt me, research these New Testament Quotes, "Acts 15:20", as an affirmation within Christianity itself of the lesser known Noachide Commandments against Idolatry, Fornication, Consumming Blood, Animal Cruelty; and also "Romans: 13", for the Commandment of Just Courts/Civil Government).
These Laws were also understood by our nation's Founding Fathers. They interpreted them differently than the Rabbis did, in a Christian and a Freemasonic interpretation and not in a Jewish Light, yet they still fully understood the need for national morality. We have lost this today. We need to get it back. Join me in spreading awareness of these Laws, and please feel free to ask me any questions here:

generalbates@attbi.com

My friends, G-d's Laws are not optional. Majorities cannot vote them in or out. Remember that America was intended to be a Republic and not a democracy. This was, in part, a recognition that G-d's Laws do not ask our consent.
Thankyou good people for your time.
General Bates, Noachide Liberation Army

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[> [> Re: The Noahide system of law -- WesleyWes, 14:29:14 10/07/05 Fri

I am all for it!

Peace!
WesleyWes
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Noahite

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Greetings -- Ray, 04:09:24 09/08/02 Sun

Hello, my name is Ray. I created this board on September 8 2002 after being kicked off another christian board for trying to expose the Noahide movement. I will be posting a lot of information here in the near future. In the meantime please feel free to post whatever you like on the subject (for or against). Open, free, polite discussion will never be discouraged here, no matter which side of the issue you are on.

However, anyone who just wants to make trouble (trying to get the board closed for example) or who engages in what I consider to be excessively agressive behavior towards another poster, will be banned.

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Replies:

[> Re: Greetings -- Ray, 00:57:52 09/09/02 Mon

I'm replying to my own post just to address something that has already happened on the first day. Although I have a sense of humor and appreciate humor from others, mocking Christ or Christianity in bad taste is just not funny. Such posts will be deleted and the poster's IP will be banned.

This very title of this site will attract some extremely motivated enemies of Christ and I don't intend to waste time with their disruptive schemes. They are welcome to post their views concerning the subject matter at hand which is the Noahide Laws and the push to destroy Christianity by those who promote them. If they rest within the bounds of polite discussion, their participation is welcome and even invited. But as soon as they pass beyond what I consider to be acceptable board behavior their IP address will be banned. This is for the good of all.

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[> [> Re: Greetings -- anti rant, 17:07:18 11/15/05 Tue

>I'm replying to my own post just to address something
>that has already happened on the first day. Although I
>have a sense of humor and appreciate humor from
>others, mocking Christ or Christianity in bad taste
>is just not funny. Such posts will be deleted and the
>poster's IP will be banned.
>
>This very title of this site will attract some
>extremely motivated enemies of Christ and I don't
>intend to waste time with their disruptive schemes.
>They are welcome to post their views concerning the
>subject matter at hand which is the Noahide Laws and
>the push to destroy Christianity by those who promote
>them. If they rest within the bounds of polite
>discussion, their participation is welcome and even
>invited. But as soon as they pass beyond what I
>consider to be acceptable board behavior their IP
>address will be banned. This is for the good of all.
christianity is a dead religion. Its entire history consists of slander, libal, oppression of minority population ie herasy. Its followers are narcissistic feel good believers. In the name of love it practices hate. Blood libels host desicration ghettos book burnings this is christianity. That he nazis based their institutionalized murder of humanity, approx, 80 million died during is 1933-1945 reign of terror the writings of Luther who wrote that jews should be burnt, that all wealth of jews should be confiscated etc. I never see 'BELIEVERS' taking responsibility for their religion. instead its 'oh those people weren't true believers' and trash of that nature. A covenant, at least a biblical covenant requires an oath. A covenant, at least a biblical covenant concerns the establishment of an alliance, the most fundamental being the joining of the rational mind with the emotional gut feelings/passions. This despicable plague and curse upon humanity institutes Inquisitions, human bar BQs of heritics, book burnings, it owns massive realistate holdings tax free, it steals children, "converts" them. This monster religion obliterated the natives of America, murdered millions of blacks for slavery, destroyed populations of native inhabitants in the Pacific/asia, its religious governments practiced imperialism. Its popes and priests vowed celibacy and reared alot of bastards, today its priests prey on child seduction and sex, all in the name of love jesus loves you bother.

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[> Re: Greetings -- Shadow Wolf, 21:38:29 08/09/03 Sat

well, anything is better than a fucking christian!!

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[> [> There are many denominations/versions of Christianity -- QUITTNER, 10:39:08 08/12/03 Tue

Shadow Wolf, check out EXACTLY what Jesus did and wanted others to do, and probably you will find that the ORIGINAL Christians were quite different from the ones you have met, who misused the name/label "Christian", and who you hate.

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[> [> [> Re: There are many denominations/versions of Christianity -- Gary, 11:41:35 08/12/03 Tue

QUITTNER - According to Ray's rules, I expect that, after what SW said, he's no longer in attendance. *wink*

But, I fully agree with you. There are very few real, born again Christians in the world. Virtually all named and organized "religions", are but lame attempts *at* Christianity. Jesus didn't come preaching any named denomination, he taught a working relationship WITH the Father, with a strong emphasis on reading Scripture.

One of the common threads I have found running through all false religions is, an overwhelming resistence to and ignorance of Scripture. This is what has allowed such gross diversity among so many "christian" religions. And remember, Jesus WAS the Scripture incarnate; Scripture come to life. This is why he placed such emphasis on reading and knowing it.

Gary

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[> [> [> [> Re: There are many denominations/versions of Christianity -- QUITTNER, 09:53:10 08/26/03 Tue

>>> ... Jesus WAS the Scripture incarnate; Scripture come to life. This is why he placed such emphasis on reading and knowing it. <<<

..... Gary, the contents of what we now call scripture were decided by a committee, with many other gospels and other writings not accepted for inclusion into the bible.
..... God does not need prior permission from clergy to communicate with people, and these more recent communications from God to people must NOT be ignored. Very likely they supersede the original "biblical" writings.

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[> [> [> [> [> Re: There are many denominations/versions of Christianity -- Gary Schooley, 18:54:54 08/27/03 Wed

>>>> ... Jesus WAS the Scripture incarnate; Scripture
>come to life. This is why he placed such emphasis on
>reading and knowing it. <<<
>
>..... Gary, the contents of what we now call scripture
>were decided by a committee, with many other gospels
>and other writings not accepted for inclusion into the
>bible.

There have been several "commities", and they disagreed what to include and what to reject. Protestant vs. Catholic are the main ones. The catholic church not only included books rejected by others, but they wrote their own books to add as well.

Regardless, the Holy Spirit has final say on what is anointed, genuine Scripture and what is not. The fact that it doesn't turn out that way here, is indicated by the very last few verses of Scripture, which indicates that Scripture WILL be adulterated. One test of Scripture (which the Catholic church fails) is that Scripture illuminates Scripture. The widely accepted KJV Bible has it's Scriptures referenced by other Scripture. Other "scriptures' can not say that.

>..... God does not need prior permission from clergy
>to communicate with people,

Exactly. That's why he doesn't need a commitee. Where did I mention that he did?

and these more recent
>communications from God to people must NOT be ignored.

Which are you refering to? I've not seen them. Are they more profound than the Revelation? Have they proven to be authentic? Do they go into greater depth?

>Very likely they supersede the original "biblical"
>writings.

Very likely, they contradict Scripture, which always serves as an accurate straight edge to examine "other" doctrines with. In fact, Scriptural contradiction are the rule, and "new revelations", usually always prove to be false and contradictory.

Gary

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[> [> [> [> [> [> Re: There are many denominations/versions of Christianity -- QUITTNER, 13:00:22 08/31/03 Sun

Unfortunately there are many who want to censor God's messages. They have their own scriptures that they think are more important than what God tries to tell them. Too bad!

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Salvation FREE and Eternal -- Cecil Spivey, 09:29:51 02/27/06 Mon

Salvation FREE and Eternal
By – Cecil Spivey

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: John 1:12

That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. John 3:15-18

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. John 5:24

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.] My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. John 10:27-29

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. John 14:6

Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. Acts 4:12

Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins: And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses. Acts 13:38-39

And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. Acts 16:31

But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Romans 4:5

Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. Romans 5:1

Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth. Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 8:33-39

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Romans 10:9-10

And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. Romans 11:6

Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve: 1 Cor. 15:1-5

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. Eph. 2:8-9

Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Titus 3:5

These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God. 1 John 5:13

ONLY ONE CROSS FOR ALL DISPENSATIONS

Now it is quite true that God has different ages and dispensations and different programs with people but none of the dispensational or racial differences in any way affect the "gospel of Christ" that was foreordained for the salvation of any member of Adam's family that would "call upon the name of the Lord". Joel 2:32; Acts 2:21; Rom. 10:13; Acts 10:43; 15:10-11; 13:38-39. (Please honestly read these.) Though all penitent believers in Christ have His death baptism and His burial and resurrection put to their credit.

P. S.

If all the above Scriptures does not teach that the True Believer has Eternal life now and can not lose it. God’s word has no meaning. If you could loose Salvation, you could not be saved again no more than you can be born into the human family two times. You are born into the human family only once and you are born into God’s family only once.

Read: Paul’s Gospel

Faith Alone in Christ Alone = Salvation

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WHO WAS JESUS - according to Hassidic Chabad-Lubavitcher Jews -- Leah, 01:17:20 01/31/03 Fri

I hope the Christians who've posted here and have proclaimed themselves to be Noahides will take the time to think about what's written here about Jesus Christ and re-think the path they're on.


Who Was Jesus? (according to Hassidic Chabad-Lubavitcher Jews)

The Bible gave a warning about a dangerous, false prophet who would arise to test our faith in G-d. In Deuteronomy 13, G-d describes this false prophet as a member of the Jewish people (v. 2, 7) who would tell true prophecies and would have the power of miracles. G-d Himself would give this false prophet the power to perform miracles and reveal prophecy, but the false prophet would try to seduce the people away from G-d's Law and towards strange gods unknown to Judaism. The purpose would be to test whether we are truly committed to living under the Law, or whether we will be dazzled and fall for the temptation to join a false path to salvation (v. 3-6, 7-8, 11). In this Biblical passage, G-d repeatedly commands the Jews to kill this false prophet, lest the evil spread and destroy many souls.

To be accepted by the people, the false prophet would sometimes pretend to be a righteous Jew who fulfills the Law, but at key moments he would turn against certain details of the Law in order to make the breach (v. 6, 7). This is the reason that verse 1 commands us not to add or subtract any details from the Law, and verse 5 warns us to remain steadfast with all the traditions of the Law.

In Deuteronomy 17, this false prophet is also described as someone who would rebel against the authority of the judges of the Jewish people, and who should be put to death for his rebelliousness (v. 8-13, esp. v. 12). Who are the judges? The highest court in Israel was the Sanhedrin, which was established by Moses (Exodus 18:13-26; Numbers 11:16-29), and which lasted more than 15 centuries. The members of the Sanhedrin were the rabbis known as "Pharisees" (Pirushim, "those with the explanation"). G-d gave permanent authority to these judges to interpret the Law and G-d's Word, and it is a commandment to follow their decisions without turning even slightly to the right or the left (Deut. 17:11). But the false prophet would challenge the authority of the Sanhedrin, thus revealing himself to be an evil man.

In the book of the prophet Daniel, this false prophet is described as a king (the eleventh horn on a terrible beast) who would wage war against the Jews (the "holy ones"; see Deut. 14:2 on this term) and would change the Law — including the calendar and the holidays (Daniel 7:8, 20-25). Elsewhere, this false prophet is described as a king who would disregard the G-d of his fathers, exalting himself as a god and giving honor to this new god-head (Daniel 11:36-39).

The man known today as "Jesus" fulfilled all these prophecies. He became a "king" (over the Christian church) who changed the original Law, doing away with the Hebrew calendar and the Biblical holidays (Rosh Hashanah, Yom Kippur, Sukkos — the Festival of Tabernacles, Passover, etc.). He disregarded the one, infinite G-d of the Hebrew Bible in favor of a new "trinity" that included himself. And he repeatedly broke the Law by committing terrible sins, while openly challenging the G-d-given authority of the rabbis of the Sanhedrin.

Naturally, Jesus did sometimes pretend to respect the Law, but whenever he thought he could get away with it, he turned right around and broke that same Law. In Matthew 5:17-19, he declared that he came to fulfill the Law, and in Matthew 23:1-3 he defended the authority of the rabbis. But the rest of the time, he rebelled against the Law — thus showing that his occasional words of piety were meant only to hide his evil agenda. The following sins of Jesus are recorded in the "New Testament":

1) Jesus repudiated the laws of kosher food (Mark 7:18-19). [Compare this to the prophet Daniel's strict adherence to kashrus, in Daniel chapter 1.]

2) He repudiated the laws of honoring one's parents, and called on his followers to hate their parents; he also dishonored his own mother (Matthew 10:34-36; Matthew 12:46-50; Luke 14:26).

3) He violated the Sabbath by picking grain, and incited his disciples to do the same (Matthew 12:1-8; Mark 2:23-26).

4) He again violated the Sabbath by healing a man's arm, which was not a matter of saving a life, and he openly defied the rabbis in his total repudiation of the Sabbath (Matthew 12:9-13; Mark 3:1-5). [Compare this to G-d's view of violating the Sabbath, in Numbers 15:32-36, Nehemiah 10:30-32, and dozens of other places throughout the Bible.]

5) Jesus brazenly defied and disobeyed the rabbis of the Sanhedrin, repudiating their authority (This is recorded in many places throughout the New Testament, but look especially at Matthew 23:13-39 and John 8:44-45).

The Talmud (Babylonian edition) records other sins of "Jesus the Nazarene":

1) He and his disciples practiced sorcery and black magic, led Jews astray into idolatry, and were sponsored by foreign, gentile powers for the purpose of subverting Jewish worship (Sanhedrin 43a).

2) He was sexually immoral, worshipped statues of stone (a brick is mentioned), was cut off from the Jewish people for his wickedness, and refused to repent (Sanhedrin 107b; Sotah 47a).

3) He learned witchcraft in Egypt and, to perform miracles, used procedures that involved cutting his flesh — which is also explicitly banned in the Bible (Shabbos 104b).

The false, rebellious message of Jesus has been thoroughly rejected by the vast majority of the Jewish people, as G-d commanded. Unfortunately, however, this same message has brought a terrible darkness upon the world; today, over 1.5 billion gentiles believe in Jesus. These lost souls mistakenly think they have found salvation in Jesus; tragically, they are in for a rude awakening. Truth and eternal life are found directly from G-d, through performing His Law. Any "mediator" only separates man from G-d:

1) "G-d is not a man, who can lie, nor the son of man, who relents.… He has not beheld iniquity in Jacob, nor has He seen perverseness in Israel" (Numbers 23:19).

2) Speaking prophetically of the Christian church, Moses declared, "For their 'rock' is not like our Rock.… Where is their god, in whom they trusted?" (Deut. 32:31, 37).

3) "'See now that I, only I, am He, and there is no god with Me. I kill, and I bring to life; I wound, and I heal, and there is none who can rescue from My Hand.'… Sing songs of joy, gentiles, with His people, for He will avenge the blood of His servants, and will take vengeance on His enemies, and will forgive His land and His people" (Deut. 32:39, 43).

4) "I, only I am Hashem (the L-rd), and besides Me there is no savior" (Isaiah 43:11).

5) "I am the First and I am the Last; besides me there is no god.… Is there a god besides Me? There is no rock; I do not know any" (Isaiah 44:6).

6) "Israel is saved in Hashem with an eternal salvation.… Assemble yourselves and come, come near together, you gentiles who have escaped [the judgment]. (They have no knowledge, those who carry wooden sculptures and who pray to a god that does not save.) Announce and bring near, even take counsel together: Who declared this from ancient times, and announced it from then? Is it not I, Hashem? And there are no other gods beside Me, nor any righteous and saving god other than Me. Turn to Me and be saved, all ends of the earth, for I am G-d and there is none else. By Myself I swore, a righteous word went out of my mouth and it will not be withdrawn, that to Me every knee will bow and every tongue will swear" (Isaiah 45:17, 20-23).

What is the true key to salvation? Those who return to the Law (the Seven Commandments for the Children of Noah, according to the eternal covenant made with Noah in Genesis 9) and who assist the Jewish people (Isaiah 60, 61, 66) will be saved and will participate in the miracles and revelations, including worshipping in the Third Temple, under the kingship of the Messiah. As described in many places, including Jeremiah 16:19-21 and Zechariah 8:20-23, all the old gentile religions of the world will disappear, and their followers will turn to the Jews for spiritual leadership. Until then, Christians are spiritually blinded, and cannot yet understand G-d's wisdom in the Bible.

Ours is the last generation of the era of sin and evil and the first of the Messianic Era. Indeed, for the first time in history, there is a growing consensus of leading rabbis willing to name the man most suited to be the Messiah, and they are agreeing that he is the Lubavitcher Rebbe, Rabbi Menachem Mendel Schneerson. The Rebbe is the spiritual leader of our generation, having boldly stirred up controversy over vital issues in which other leaders have remained tragically silent or have even caved in to the growing forces of darkness. He has upheld the Law perfectly and has worked mightily to strengthen the observance of the Law by Jews, as well as the observance of the Noachide Law by gentiles. Through his teaching of chasidus (Jewish mystical teachings, preserved from Moses and Mount Sinai), he has taught the world that G-d is One, the Infinite Who renews creation at every moment. The Rebbe is a direct descendant of King David and has received a true prophecy from G-d that we who are alive in this generation shall be the first in history to see the coming of the true messiah. Many Jews are eagerly anticipating the Rebbe's resurrection from the grave, ready to re-establish the Sanhedrin and anoint the king.

Our job is to finish preparing the way, by announcing the truth and bringing all of mankind back to the Law immediately. Through our divinely mandated efforts, we shall now clear the path for the return of the Garden of Eden and the establishment of the eternal sinless world promised by Isaiah and the other Biblical prophets.

http://www.noahide.com/yeshu.htm

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[> Re: WHO WAS JESUS - according to Hassidic Chabad-Lubavitcher Jews -- professional, 08:21:27 05/01/03 Thu

Schneerson is very dead with worms crawling throughout his putrid demonic bones. Illuminated Illumninati of the Illuminated angel of Light who has transformed himself to light is their un-named g-d, Lucifer the same g-d of their freemasonry. These who have fallen for the fables of the Pharisaic Talmudic Oral Tradition of Mishnah Torah in the Order of their god Moloch and his six pointed star are liars and are of their father the Liar, the seed of the serpent. To understand their Global deception see www.samliquidation.com/chabadsatan.htm

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[> [> Re: WHO WAS JESUS ??? -- QUITTNER, 11:13:06 06/17/03 Tue

Please explain what this thread, so far, has to do with the NOAHIDES???? With any of the covenants (contracts with God)?

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[> [> [> Re: WHO WAS JESUS ??? -- Ray, 03:30:46 08/07/03 Thu

>Please explain what this thread, so far, has to do
>with the NOAHIDES???? With any of the covenants
>(contracts with God)?

I'll try Quittner.

Concerning convenants there are two. The Old Covenant was faith based just as is the New Testament. Circumcision was but a manifestation of faith. And no one was ever saved through circumcision if they didn't have the faith to go with it. All of the Old Covenant pointed toward Jesus. It was necessary to have the Law and the Prophets so that Jesus could come as the fulfillment of the Law and the Prophesies. If Jesus had come to a nation with no concept of what sin was it would be impossible for him to convince them that they needed forgiveness for those sins. So the Old Covenant was necessary. But it was incomplete alone.

Just as there could be no redeemer without the recognition of the need to be redeemed, in the same way, the recognition of the need to be redeemed would be totally futile and hopeless without the redeemer. Even the OT saints were saved by faith in the plan of redemption.

Job spoke of Christ. "I know that my redeemer liveth and shall stand on the earth in the latter days" All of the OT saints looked forward to the coming of Christ. Jesus told the Pharisees that if they believed Moses they would believe in Him because Moses spoke of Him. So did David, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, and other prophets. The Old Covenant was but a preparation for the New Testament. It was a physical illustration of the spiritual truth to come.

In Christ's time the Pharisees already had their oral tradition that would eventually (centuries later) be codified into the Mishnah and then twisted into the Talmud. Jesus made it clear that the oral tradition was not of God. "Ye by your traditions have made the Law of God of none effect, teaching for doctrine the commandments of men".

So now I turn your own question back to you. What in the world do the Talmudic Noahide Laws have to do with either of the 2 Covenants?

Ray

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[> [> [> [> Re: WHO WAS JESUS ??? -- QUITTNER, 12:21:18 08/07/03 Thu

I see that you are thinking of a later version of Christianity, not the ORIGINAL version, the one by Jesus. Jesus was a Jewish social reformer who helped many people.
..... The Encyclopaedia of Religion and Ethics, edited by James Hastings, and published in 1917, on pages 379-380 has an article about Noachian Precepts, "the duties that could be required of the Gentiles in accordance with Biblical commands prior to the Mosaic legislation, which was regarded as peculiar to the Hebrews."
..... My guess is that very few, if any, Jews obey the covenants they are REQUIRED to obey always and in full, and, similarly, my guess is that very few of the gentiles, if any, obey the covenants they are REQUIRED to obey always and in full. Similarly, my guess is also that very few, if any, Christians obey Jesus' teachings always and in full, whatever version/denomination of Christianity they may belong to.
..... The Encyclopaedia quotes Maimonides (Melahim, viii, 11) "Whoever confesses himself liable to observe the seven precepts of Noah and is dilligent in fulfilling them, belongs to the pious among the nations and has a portion in the world to come." meaning "the fate of non-Jews in the Messianic kingdom."

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[> [> Re: WHO WAS JESUS - according to Hassidic Chabad-Lubavitcher Jews -- kim, 21:10:24 04/05/06 Wed

The Bible gave a warning about a dangerous, false prophet who would arise to test our faith in G-d. In Deuteronomy 13, G-d describes this false prophet as a member of the Jewish people (v. 2, 7) who would tell true prophecies and would have the power of miracles. G-d Himself would give this false prophet the power to perform miracles and reveal prophecy, but the false prophet would try to seduce the people away from G-d's Law and towards strange gods unknown to Judaism. The purpose would be to test whether we are truly committed to living under the Law, or whether we will be dazzled and fall for the temptation to join a false path to salvation (v. 3-6, 7-8, 11). In this Biblical passage, G-d repeatedly commands the Jews to kill this false prophet, lest the evil spread and destroy many souls.

http://www.jroller.com/page/darkcycle/20040506

"The film is about a foreign installation that exists inside our heads and makes us think that we maintain independent human thought. D-Karn! is a de-carnalising drug which appears on the new black-market, and sharpens your perception of the reality beneath the veneer of the world, letting you pierce through the deceptive veil that has been set up by the foreign entity."
--http://www.imaginites.com/category2_1.htm

Sounds like this australian script writer has tasted some Carlos Castaneda. One of his previous movies: Armageddon: The Final Challenge is of interest to me - precisely because reviews cannot make heads or tails from the movie - it seems to be a surrealistic jumble akin in style to Jodorowski... A possible relative Carlos Garcia seems to read the alt.mindcontrol newsgroup. Other possible relatives are George and Patrick Garcia - as they are listed as directors on the imaginites website. Who are George and Michael Garcia and what interest could they have in mindcontrol, Castaneda's foreign installation and flyers mind?

George Garcia's CV
Michael Garcia's CV
Some quotes:

"Michael Garcia has a degree in Psychology, English and History, and uses his interpretation of human behavior to determine much of his filmmaking. Among the other studied disciplines he has mastered are entrepreneurial business, the share markets, commercial & industrial law, neuro-linguistic programming, quantum physics, and Ayurvedic medicine.

"Michael Garcia is currently in development on a full length feature film provisionally entitled "FLUX" - a film about karmic repercussions"

"I believe in beings that intervene divinely, inspiring us all to greatness… Love, for me, is that place where magic happens instantly…”

Michael Garcia produced some curious audio books called "Extraterrestrial Interference: Shay", "Manifesting your Reality" and "The Shankiah Code". --http://www.imaginites.com/category9_1.htm On "Armageddon: The Final Challenge" (cheesy title) I find these odd comments: "In some countries it is still banned, check with your authorities before ordering." also: "The film has recently broken all anticipated box office, and video sales figures, generating more than a dozen times its original money back!". All reviews portray the movie as very low budget, perhaps with video and box office sales at festivals they have "earned" the money by clever marketing?

One month before 9/11 a very curious spam message circulated the internet: EyeInThePyramid. It talked about Castaneda's flyers's mind and "Later this year - prophecy will holdtrue, you will see." It mentioned a "hidden code" within the message. The messages were relayed from multiple and different unsecure smtp servers. Stegeographic analysis yielded nothing; encryption within spaces or tabs was not detected and the "hidden code" appeared to be url's leading to usenet and http addresses on the "babel internet" from where further clues dealing with conspiracy could be found. One of those was eyeinthepyramid.com which directly lead to the movie by Michael Garcia. The site mentioned that George Bush was the antichrist. At the end of the site there was conspiracy material written by Lyn Vickery also from Australia. There is a website here and another one here. Was it some clever marketing or was it meant seriously, both, something else or a vacuum cleaner operation?

As Garcia's movie D-Karn also hints at the Flyers mind, just like the eyeinthepyramid message did it is likely that there was somekind of connection. There are other candidates however

http://www.imaginites.com/prod92.htm

Somewhere man's path has gone off the course for which it was intended. This reality seems somehow to have become hijacked by the Hidden Enemy and his serpent minions. Manifesting Your Dreams and Desires shows you how to get back on the path of direct communion with God, immediately connecting your intent with instantaneous manifestation. These are the principles that Noah and Moses used through their faith in their God. Set against the template of the physical world, the Hidden Enemy is the one to watch out for. Cultures everywhere have different names for him, but his true name is unpronounceable and he was once an angel of Light and served in God's Kingdom. With him, and through him, only trickery abounds. Your goal in this life is to defeat the Hidden Enemy, for every victory for ourselves is a Victory for God. In his desire to produce the FLUX Trilogy, Garcia researched the Hassidic way of manifesting heavily, and what he found is astounding.

In a world filled with trickery (though the Victory is already promised to us in the Word) your goal is to defeat the Hidden Enemy by being made aware of the maneuvers of the Hidden Enemy. Once you can truly know the war that wages over your head, you'll begin to be able to counteract the states of mind like: discouragement, lack of productivity, fixation with insignificant details, lack of enthusiasm, belief that life is a drudgery... By taking your power back, and understanding the tactics of the Hidden Enemy apparent in every detail of everything you do, you will be able to Manifest Any Reality You Choose... Instantly. Think of Christ's first miracle, the turning of water into wine at the Wedding Ceremony, the Miracle on the Beach which was responsible for the delivery of an endless supply of bread and fish to the assembled masses, think of the raising of the dead Lazarus.

According to the Shankiah Code (the original Hassidic texts preceding the Bible): the world is not what it seems, the objective of your life is to defeat the Hidden Enemy, you are a miracle-performing being (Christ himself said that you would be able to do the same miracles and others even greater), and that your soul is timeless. In fact, with the assimilation of the Holy Spirit, you are given spiritual gifts like the gift of prophecy, speaking in the tongue of the Holy Spirit (a direct call to God). Your intent becomes instantaneously connected to the manifestation of all things in this reality. The reflection of the Holy Spirit is reflected in the Shine of the Eyes, and the power inside you begins to at once re-define your state of perception, meaning that you are always shattering your frame of reference. The Hassidic say that your fear is your ally, that even in the knowledge that you are powerless against Death, this fear can act as your advisor. The Hassidic prove that you can access altered states of consciousness when you are in alignment with God. Only through our willful connection with God can we ever hope to break the stupor we're in, and see above the plateau of human consciousness. Only through our divine marriage to God can we begin to see what is truly reflected beyond this earthly plane.

Manifesting Your Dreams and Reality is truly a breathtaking work, filled with new thoughts and ideas about our understanding of our journey. This is the definitive audio relating to the decade of research behind FLUX: The Journeymen. It's possibly the only programme you are likely to have access to that is so keenly researched on the ancient teachings of the Hassidic Men of High Degree. For much of what was later to follow about the Hassidic beliefs was later suppressed or destroyed by those keen on power and determined to keep man enslaved. But despite the dark period that the Church went through, and by the Good Grace of God, the Biblical texts, God's Word, has remained all but untouched since its first writing. God's Manual for Man, the Holy Bible, has survived near perfectly intact, continually guarded against all the attempted corruptions of the Hidden Enemy.

Find out how the Hassidic proclamations echo perfectly the teachings found in the Word. Teachings that relate directly to Man's transcendence off the earth and into a higher more evolved plane of existence, Heaven. But ONLY if certain conditions are to be in place. One is the direct acknowledgement and acceptance that the Sent Messiah was God's Off-spring, and that one accepted the self-sacrificing action of the one they call the Christ.

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[> Re: WHO WAS JESUS - according to Hassidic Chabad-Lubavitcher Jews -- Shimshon, 00:41:05 07/07/05 Thu

Is His Name Jesus? Share with me. I want to know what you have to say about that. Was He a Palestinian or a Jew? If He was a Jew, He would sure have a Hebrew name? What is His Hebrew name? I would love to hear from you. Can we use His proper Hebrew name when talking about Him? Can we do that Justice?

Shalom,

Shimshon

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[> [> Re: WHO WAS JESUS ??? -- QUITTNER, 12:01:42 07/18/05 Mon

>>> Is His Name Jesus? <<<
..... Very likely it was NOT Jesus. One speculation I have seen is that the stories about him were based on Jehoshua Ben-Pandira (see Babylonian Gemara to the Mishna of Tract "Shabbath") who may have been born about the year 120 BCE, and who was stoned to death as a wizard in the city of Lud, or Lydda, and afterwards was crucified by being hanged on a tree, on the eve of the Passover. Also Apollonius of Tyana has been mentioned as a likely actual person on which (part of?) the stories are based.

>>> Was He a Palestinian or a Jew? If He was a Jew, He would sure have a Hebrew name? <<<
..... He probably was a Jew, but his normal language may have been Aramaic, not Hebrew, except, maybe, for his prayers.

>>> What is His Hebrew name? <<<
..... Did he have a Hebrew name? Keep well, and have peace.

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[> [> [> Re: WHO WAS JESUS ??? -- http://www.petrine-noahide.info, 14:16:02 01/11/06 Wed

Jesus is mentioned once at the end of the Toledoth Yeshu as one of the sages who comissioned Saint Peter to fight against the Notzrim heresy which had been spread by Yeshu Ha Notzri.

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[> [> Re: WHO WAS JESUS - according to Hassidic Chabad-Lubavitcher Jews -- Iesous, 14:23:52 03/21/06 Tue

>Is His Name Jesus? Share with me. I want to know
>what you have to say about that. Was He a Palestinian
>or a Jew? If He was a Jew, He would sure have a
>Hebrew name? What is His Hebrew name? I would love
>to hear from you. Can we use His proper Hebrew name
>when talking about Him? Can we do that Justice?

Gregory

Of old use Iesous 4 it is numerical 888

IM Greg or (@) Yah o o (Dot) Com [e]

I wish I came up with the idea but a friend came up with the nickname gregor for gregory i don't know Y but it does make for a good pun .... Y not :>O

Shalom

Greg a tion - don't cross a Lion

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[> [> Re: WHO WAS JESUS - according to Hassidic Chabad-Lubavitcher Jews -- Gregory, 16:10:37 06/26/06 Mon

>Is His Name Jesus? Share with me. I want to know
>what you have to say about that. Was He a Palestinian
>or a Jew? If He was a Jew, He would sure have a
>Hebrew name? What is His Hebrew name? I would love
>to hear from you. Can we use His proper Hebrew name
>when talking about Him? Can we do that Justice?
>
>Shalom,
>
>Shimshon

Now you may use my proper name Gregory
but you have out of respect been using my numeric name

1993 converted from base 14 to base 17 which is G_D

It's kind of a long story.

You will find my date of birth 4-17

It is Genesis 4:17 in which you find for the first time the word Son.

you have done well to keep my 613 Mitzvot.

First and last

10 613

10613 in base 25 is the number GOD.

Email me or come to Vashon in the Sound in WA

and I will explain.

Gregory
imgregor@yahoo.com

4-17-63 or in base 17 888b

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[> Re: WHO WAS JESUS - according to Hassidic Chabad-Lubavitcher Jews -- Gregory, 00:01:04 03/21/06 Tue

The Christian Church was formed after my death so i could not have been king of the Christians.

Tell me as a surviving Sodomite do you still give only to your own kind or have you ever provided confort to people who aren't Jewish.

Do you think as slaves you were freed to enslave others?

1. Christmas is the 360th day of the year (Leap of faith Years)
2. Jesus name in Greek is Iesous and like Hebrew letters have a value a total of 888

Now I will give you two independent equations to add to the Squaring of the Circle

3 x 296 = 888
296 x 888 = 296^2 + 296^2 + 296^2
A number times Jesus' number is the sum of squares of itself in the form of a trinity

The following is Squaring the Circle theological not mathematical
(Christmas on Leap Year the 360th day)

360^2 x 1 = 129600 (12) month
360^2 x 2 = 259200 (25) day
360^2 x 3 = 388800
360^2 x 4 = 518400
360^2 x 5 = 648000
360^2 x 6 = 777600

at first you see a cross made up of 2 888’s with a 9 at the top the 9 is remnant of the last (as in digit as in Jesus)
One might think an 8 would be more concrete proof. Jesus can help us with that we know He is the first and the last
360^2 x 2 = 259200

25 9 200 divide the first into the last 200/25 is 8

you may say that this is a nice random pattern and means nothing again Jesus can help us with this.
I am in the father and he is in me the first number has quite an interesting property
129600 a 296 in a 100 (% if you like to think of it that way)
That takes us to the two Equations above.
But a code must have a final verification so looking to the last number one may think
ah 777 just lucky … no but God loves Irony as in a stalemate irony lessens the load.
Now we once took the first into the last now we take the last into the first

777 / 600 = 1,295 we use a comma to separate trinities of numbers so collect (add) the trinities

295
+ 1
-----
296

We end with what we started with ... well maybe a little more faith!

Consider This remember this is the same number in dif bases

Intelligent Design 1

ID1 base 36
JEW base 35
KJV base 34
LS4 base 33

ISOG Is Son Of God
JEW Book 1
KJV Book 2 - King James Version
LS4 Book 3 - Latter-Day Saints

You may remember that one book was said to be copied in the form of the other maybe that was part of the design.

The number 888296 in various Numeral Systems

10: 888296
36: J1EW

Move the number Jew up 1 place to base 35
The number 1 in J1EW has a value of 1,296 IE: 36^2 x 1 = 1,296

The number 23797 in various Numeral Systems

10: 23797
33: LS4
34: KJV
35: JEW
36: ID1


My name in the OT is PiSon

Iesous in Greek has a value of 888

in base ten 888 in base 17 it is 314

the word g0d can first be derived from base 17 from the decimal number 4637
0 is a zero (number)
the actual word god first occurrence is in base 25 from the decimal number 10613
this is interesting as Moses had no Idea of English in his day but the First and last set of commandments from him are the 10 commandments and the last set was 613 and 10613 is God in base 25 in only English note: In English not Hebrew

Now the concept of first and last is the mantra of a man call the Word of God

So here is my problem it is my date of birth it relates over and over to Pi 888 and 4637 in both conventional and non conventional terms and in prime numbers

facts
in base 17 888B is 41763 April 17 1963

sum of squares for the number 4171963 is

n = 4171963
n = a^2 + b^2 + c^2
a = 3
b = 1415 a.b is Pi 3.1415
c = 1473
---------- adding the columns
5888

so bear with me a moment as 5 seems to be a validation number (5^.5x.5+.5 = Phi) here is an interesting prime
4000001000007000001000009000006000003

lets say 1000007 is the day

Log of 1000007 is 600000304 to validate remove the five zeros from both sides

17 6304 17 day 63 year 04 month

OK so back to Pi lets look at it in a different way

17 and the root of 17 4.1231 there you have a 17 & 4 so use the 1231 also symbolic as the last day of the year 12/31

so let us group Pi into 1 2 3 1 digits

3 14 159 3

what we are going to do is:

1 add the first group to the second group
2 add the new number to the third group
3 and bring down the first and last digits from around the 3rd group 4 & 3

3+14 = 17
17+159 = 176

3 14 159 3

4 176 3

now it doesn't stop there

3 1415 93

in 3 of 93 a person born 4-17-1963 would be 14+15 years old (29)
remember the 1993

14x15x93.3 mirror the 3. from the other side of Pi
is 19593 to understand this number look at it as a 5 with in a 1993

this concept comes from I am in the father and the Father is in me
a number within a number and the like

now here is more on bases

1993 from base 14 to 17 again we have a one 4/17
is g0d

Now from history in 1993 there was a super-storm "storm of the century" that occurred around 3 14,15 of 93 but there was a similar storm in the year of 1888
by the same name and dates

now if you remember from the sum of squares the 5888

take the 1888 and the 5888 strip the 888

1 and 5 since Pi is all about the circle put that between the 1 and 5
105 and that is the number of years bewteen storms.

CHABAD on the 101 keyboard falls under the numbers
361513

sum of divisors for 361513 is 388800

I am the Bride's Groom and just to turn thing around for you she Is Real 2.

Shalom
My friends
Judge me not or I shall JUDGE you!
Gregory

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[> Re: WHO WAS JESUS - according to Hassidic Chabad-Lubavitcher Jews -- Gregory, 00:04:10 03/21/06 Tue

The Christian Church was formed after my death so i could not have been king of the Christians.

Tell me as a surviving Sodomite do you still give only to your own kind or have you ever provided confort to people who aren't Jewish.

Do you think as slaves you were freed to enslave others?

1. Christmas is the 360th day of the year (Leap of faith Years)
2. Jesus name in Greek is Iesous and like Hebrew letters have a value a total of 888

Now I will give you two independent equations to add to the Squaring of the Circle

3 x 296 = 888
296 x 888 = 296^2 + 296^2 + 296^2
A number times Jesus' number is the sum of squares of itself in the form of a trinity

The following is Squaring the Circle theological not mathematical
(Christmas on Leap Year the 360th day)

360^2 x 1 = 129600 (12) month
360^2 x 2 = 259200 (25) day
360^2 x 3 = 388800
360^2 x 4 = 518400
360^2 x 5 = 648000
360^2 x 6 = 777600

at first you see a cross made up of 2 888’s with a 9 at the top the 9 is remnant of the last (as in digit as in Jesus)
One might think an 8 would be more concrete proof. Jesus can help us with that we know He is the first and the last
360^2 x 2 = 259200

25 9 200 divide the first into the last 200/25 is 8

you may say that this is a nice random pattern and means nothing again Jesus can help us with this.
I am in the father and he is in me the first number has quite an interesting property
129600 a 296 in a 100 (% if you like to think of it that way)
That takes us to the two Equations above.
But a code must have a final verification so looking to the last number one may think
ah 777 just lucky … no but God loves Irony as in a stalemate irony lessens the load.
Now we once took the first into the last now we take the last into the first

777 / 600 = 1,295 we use a comma to separate trinities of numbers so collect (add) the trinities

295
+ 1
-----
296

We end with what we started with ... well maybe a little more faith!

Consider This remember this is the same number in dif bases

Intelligent Design 1

ID1 base 36
JEW base 35
KJV base 34
LS4 base 33

ISOG Is Son Of God
JEW Book 1
KJV Book 2 - King James Version
LS4 Book 3 - Latter-Day Saints

You may remember that one book was said to be copied in the form of the other maybe that was part of the design.

The number 888296 in various Numeral Systems

10: 888296
36: J1EW

Move the number Jew up 1 place to base 35
The number 1 in J1EW has a value of 1,296 IE: 36^2 x 1 = 1,296

The number 23797 in various Numeral Systems

10: 23797
33: LS4
34: KJV
35: JEW
36: ID1


My name in the OT is PiSon

Iesous in Greek has a value of 888

in base ten 888 in base 17 it is 314

the word g0d can first be derived from base 17 from the decimal number 4637
0 is a zero (number)
the actual word god first occurrence is in base 25 from the decimal number 10613
this is interesting as Moses had no Idea of English in his day but the First and last set of commandments from him are the 10 commandments and the last set was 613 and 10613 is God in base 25 in only English note: In English not Hebrew

Now the concept of first and last is the mantra of a man call the Word of God

So here is my problem it is my date of birth it relates over and over to Pi 888 and 4637 in both conventional and non conventional terms and in prime numbers

facts
in base 17 888B is 41763 April 17 1963

sum of squares for the number 4171963 is

n = 4171963
n = a^2 + b^2 + c^2
a = 3
b = 1415 a.b is Pi 3.1415
c = 1473
---------- adding the columns
5888

so bear with me a moment as 5 seems to be a validation number (5^.5x.5+.5 = Phi) here is an interesting prime
4000001000007000001000009000006000003

lets say 1000007 is the day

Log of 1000007 is 600000304 to validate remove the five zeros from both sides

17 6304 17 day 63 year 04 month

OK so back to Pi lets look at it in a different way

17 and the root of 17 4.1231 there you have a 17 & 4 so use the 1231 also symbolic as the last day of the year 12/31

so let us group Pi into 1 2 3 1 digits

3 14 159 3

what we are going to do is:

1 add the first group to the second group
2 add the new number to the third group
3 and bring down the first and last digits from around the 3rd group 4 & 3

3+14 = 17
17+159 = 176

3 14 159 3

4 176 3

now it doesn't stop there

3 1415 93

in 3 of 93 a person born 4-17-1963 would be 14+15 years old (29)
remember the 1993

14x15x93.3 mirror the 3. from the other side of Pi
is 19593 to understand this number look at it as a 5 with in a 1993

this concept comes from I am in the father and the Father is in me
a number within a number and the like

now here is more on bases

1993 from base 14 to 17 again we have a one 4/17
is g0d

Now from history in 1993 there was a super-storm "storm of the century" that occurred around 3 14,15 of 93 but there was a similar storm in the year of 1888
by the same name and dates

now if you remember from the sum of squares the 5888

take the 1888 and the 5888 strip the 888

1 and 5 since Pi is all about the circle put that between the 1 and 5
105 and that is the number of years bewteen storms.

CHABAD on the 101 keyboard falls under the numbers
361513

sum of divisors for 361513 is 388800

I am the Bride's Groom and just to turn thing around for you she Is Real 2.

Shalom
My friends
Judge me not or I shall JUDGE you!
Gregory

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[Edit]
Circumcision of the heart or circumcision of the flesh? -- Eliyahu, 01:23:00 10/04/02 Fri

Bs"d

Observing God's laws can LITERALLY be a matter of life and death. Read all about it here:

http://www.geocities.com/skinhim


Eliyahu.

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Replies:

[> Re: Circumcision of the heart or circumcision of the flesh? -- Ray, 06:01:46 08/07/03 Thu

First an excerpt of the webpage Eliyahu reccomended.

-------------------
Eliyahu

There are two kinds of people; those who are circumcised and those who are uncircumcised. But the amazing thing is that the uncircumcised ones declare that they are the real circumcised ones.

With this they follow Paul who says: "For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter;" Romans 2:28-29

So if we have to believe the New Testament then those who are circumcised are the uncircumcised ones, and those who are uncircumcised are the circumcised ones. This is, of course, idiocy.

end quote
----------------
Ray
The wisdom of God is foolishness to some. I see the wisdom in what Paul is saying here. If you don't it must mean that we are not looking at it the same way.
-------------------------
Eliyahu
This is about the same as when the Muslims would claim they are the real Christians.
-----------------------
Ray
I never heard that claim.
----------------------
Eliyahu
The reality is of course that the uncircumcised are uncircumcised. And whatever somebody believes about the opposite has no bearing on reality what so ever.
-----------------------
Ray
The reality is that one can be circumcised in the flesh but still be an uncircumcised heathen in his heart. And one can be uncircumcised in the flesh and yet be a true son of Abraham.
-------------------
Eliyahu

And we see in the real world that the "circumcision of the flesh", which is the only true circumcision, can literally save somebody's life.
---------------------
Ray

And we see in God's Word that the circumcision of the heart is the only one that can literally save someone's immortal soul.
---------------------
Eliyahu

If anybody wants to know why the New Testament which turns good into bad, light into darkness, monotheïsm into idolatry, circumcision into non-circumcision, should not be taken seriously,....
----------------------

Ray

Thanks for the offer Eliyahu but I'll take a raincheck on that one, OK?

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[> [> Paul was entitled to his opinion, but it's NOT Jesus' teaching. -- QUITTNER, 11:40:59 08/18/03 Mon

Paul wanted to build a "universal" (="catholic") belief system, using bits and pieces of various religions current there at that time, similar to somebody's invenrion of Esperanto, an artificial language consisting of bits and pieces of various languages.
..... Obviously nobody can literally circumcise one's heart, it's just a figure of speech, very successfully designed to attract a lot of non-Jews to Paul's then new religion, still using the label Christianity, using Jesus' name quite wrongfully, and now comprising about one third of this planet's population.

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[> [> Re: Circumcision of the heart is all that matters -- Natural Branch, 10:46:00 06/28/06 Wed

The mystery of the gospel is that all of God's people are those who have faith in Him and His Son. These are the "Israel of God". No longer is race a determining factor of God's people. And that is the mystery of the gospel.

The descendents of Abraham were chose as examples of how God deals with His people. But many of them turned from God. All along it was those who obeyed God that were considered His people, whether they were natural born into one of the twelve tribes or not. NOW, the spiritual significance of these tribes support the teachings of the mystery of the gospel, the resurrections, God's plan of salvation for mankind as foreshadowed in His holy days, and the joining of the two sticks which occur AFTER the millenium and Great White Throne judgment period.

Romans 2:28-29 could not be more clear that physical circumcision is NOT a requirement of salvation or being a true Jew, but rather, believing on the Lord Jesus Christ and having a changed, circumcised heart is the determiner of a true Jew:

"For he is NOT a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision which is outward in the flesh:

But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spiirt, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God."

Also:

"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female; forye are all one in Christ Jesus.

And if ye be Christ's then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." Galations 3:28-29


Neither race nor gender makes one a true Jew, but faith in the Most High God and His Son makes one one of God's people...a true Jew...of the Israel of God.

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Former Christian Now Happy Noachide -- Dean, 22:40:00 07/01/06 Sat

Despite all the dire warnings of divine judgement, I assure you that since taking a step back from my 20 year life as an xtian and looking at the beginning of THE BIBLE on its own, I am not only content and happy, but I finally have a solid biblical foundation to my religious beliefs. The problem with xtianity is the circular logic that keeps indocrinated people chasing their proverbial tails. Its painfully evident by the arguements I have seen posted here that this is the case as well. I wont be fretting over any response that some "spiritual" xtian may use to refute my posting. My purpose is only to state that I WAS a devoted xtian for 20 years as a missionary to various countries, and I have after doing a sincere search of the roots of xtianity found it to be a false religious sect whose root was in Judaism but veered in a tangent to become an evil and idolatrous cult.
And by the way, the real Moshiach will soon be here, and you will all see how horribly tricked you were at this pseudo-messiah , jeezuz the not-so-anointed-one.

http://noahides.tripod.com/rethinkingchristianity/id14.html

Have a great day.

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[Edit]
US Government & The Noahide Laws... -- Leah, 06:27:13 01/31/03 Fri

The Noahide (Noachide) Laws, or the Seven Universal Laws of Ethics and Morality, (which I'd never even heard of until recently) are similar to the Christian Ten Commandments but do not come from the Holy Bible or Torah (they're from the Talmud which, to my understanding, supposedly contains the teachings of the Pharisees) and are said to be derived from specific passages in the Torah. The Chabad-Lubavitcher's claim that these laws are the very minimal observance for gentiles (non-Jews) to follow.

In a footnote to Yebamoth 62a, the Talmud gives the Scriptural source of the seven Noahide laws as Genesis 9:7.

In Genesis 9:7, God says to Noah:

And you, be ye fruitful, and multiply; bring forth abundantly in the earth, and multiply therein.

Hmmm... there's not one mention of seven laws in that verse, despite what the Talmudic sages tell us.

According to this group, Christians are guilty of idoltry (for believing in Jesus Christ) and are subject to death (by beheading!) According to their own website, they plan world domination... they want to replace the world's court systems with Rabbinical courts and they also plan to do away with what they consider to be pagan holidays like Christmas, Easter, Halloween, All Saint's Day, Good Friday, Ash Wednesday, etc, and anyone observing any of these holidays is subject to death !! People can purchase anti-Christmas fliers from their website. I KNOW this sounds INSANE... but it's true ! Use the links I provide and go read for yourself.

www.noahide.com/minimum.htm

From their website:

"...according to the known Jewish ruling that Christians are idol worshippers." (Likkutei Sichos 37:198) [Likkutei Sichos is a printed and bound anthology of talks given by Rabbi Schneerson]

A gentile...is liable for the death penalty...if he has invented a religious holiday for himself...The general principle is we do not allow them to make new religious rituals and to make 'mitzvahs' for themselves by their own devices. Rather they may either become a Ger Tzeddek and accept all the Mitvahs; or he (the Noahide) should stand fast in his Torah (the seven Noahide Laws) without adding or diminishing...and if he does make some new 'mitzvah,' we lash him, punish him, and inform him that he is obligated with the death penalty for this..." (Rambam Mishne Torah—Hilchos Melachim 10:9)

http://www.noahide.com/xmas.htm


What I found to be shocking, beyond belief, is that the birthday of Rabbi Menachem Mendel Schneerson and the Noahide Laws have been WRITTEN INTO LAW here in the US ! The United States Congress and the seven most recent presidents (Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush, Clinton & Bush, Jr.) have USED the guise of "National Education Day," "National Education and Sharing Day U.S.A.," or "Education Day, USA" (the names have varied slightly through the years, same "celebration," though) as an opportunity to pay tribute to Lubavitch Rabbi Schneerson's birthday, to his Lubavitchers and to the Seven Noahide Laws (with their beheadings and animal sacrifices and prohibition of Christianity and separate courts for Jews) that they hope to impose upon the United States and the world. The actual date "National Education Day" is celebrated changes from year to year based on the JEWISH/Babylonian lunar calendar but every year the President of the United States gives a proclamation honoring Rabbi Schneerson and the Noahide Laws.

The law is (House Joint Resolution 104, Public Law 102-14) http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c102:H.J.RES.104.ENR: and it urges us to follow the Noahide Laws as a basis for ethical values. I'm appalled by that ! I question why our presidents did not prefer to urge Americans to follow the Ten Commandments, IF they were going to mention ANY religious laws at all, which is what our CHRISTIAN nation believes, and not some man-made Pharisee laws which endorse MURDERING Christians for believing in Jesus Christ !

Here are links to a number of the speeches given by several of our presidents, that honor Rabbi Schneerson and which have cleverly put the Noahide Laws into public US law.

http://www.reagan.utexas.edu/resource/speeches/1985/40485f.htm - Ronald Reagan (1985)

http://www.reagan.utexas.edu/resource/speeches/1986/41986b.htm - Ronald Reagan (1986)

http://envirotext.eh.doe.gov/data/eos/clinton/19930402.html - Clinton (1993)

http://sunsite.tus.ac.jp/pub/academic/political-science/whitehouse-papers/1995/Apr/1995-04-10-proclamation-of-education-and-sharing-day.text - Clinton (1995)

http://198.17.75.65/fril/1996/19960402/96-8255.txt - Clinton (1996)

http://www.ed.gov/PressReleases/04-1997/970417b.html - Clinton (1997)

http://www.ed.gov/PressReleases/03-1999/wh-0325.html - Clinton (1999)

http://clinton4.nara.gov/WH/New/html/20000324.html - Clinton (2000)

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2001/03/20010322-2.html - George W. Bush (2001)

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/03/20020325-4.html - George W. Bush (2002)


Answers from the Rabbi Schneerson (website linked below):

**** What is the primary mission for our generation to accomplish?

The main avodah of this generation is to go out to the final war of the golus, to conquer and to purify all the gentile countries (such that "and kingship will be Hashem's," Ovadiah 1:21). --Shabbos Parshas VaYelech, 5746.

**** Did the Rebbe indicate that there is a danger in putting off the Noachide campaign?

This phenomenon adds much momentum to the efforts of convincing the citizens of the world to observe the Seven Noachide Laws. When the President proclaims its importance it is easier to encourage average people to accept it and so the opportunity must not be lost. It also provides us with a clear sign from Above that there is no time to lose in teaching the gentiles of the world about G-d. --Shabbos Parshas Tsav, 5747, Sichos in English, vol. 35, p. 76.

**** Aren't we busy enough working with Jews? Can we really afford to divert time and money to the campaign to transform the gentiles?

The Rambam uses the expression, "lakuf ("to forcefully influence") all inhabitants of the world to accept the Noachide commands." Although obviously one must do this in a pleasant, gentle, and peaceful way, it still must be done with persistence. If you have already tried several times, try again nevertheless. We frequently see that although people are sometimes spoken to five times, they do not change until they hear it a sixth time! --Purim, 5747, Sichos in English, vol. 35, p. 4.

**** Did the Rebbe give any practical advice on how to carry out the Noachide campaign?

Encouraging the abandonment of Christianity: "...according to the known Jewish legal ruling that Christians are idol worshippers. --Likutei Sichos 37:198, from a letter of the Rebbe dated 26 Iyra, 5726, cited in Kol Boi HaOlam, p. 389.

http://www.noahide.com/rebbe.htm


In Israel Shahak and Norton Mezvinsky's book Jewish Fundamentalism in Israel (Pluto Press, 1999, pp. 58-62), Rabbi Schneerson is cited as teaching that:

Jews and non-Jews are of an entirely different species. A non-Jew should be punished by death if he kills an embryo, even if the embryo is non-Jewish, while the Jew should not be, even if the embryo is Jewish. Two kinds of souls exist — all non-Jewish souls originate from one of three satanic spheres, whereas Jewish souls originate from holiness. The universe was created for the sake of Jews, and the role of all non-Jews is to serve Jews. The late, highly revered Rabbi Menachem Mendel Schneerson, the 'Lubavitcher Rebbe' who headed the Chabad movement and wielded great influence in Israel as well as in the U.S., explained that, 'The difference between a Jewish and a non-Jewish person stems from the common expression: ‘Let us differentiate.’ Thus, we do not have a case of profound change in which a person is merely on a superior level. Rather, we have a case of ‘let us differentiate’ between totally different species. This is what needs to be said about the body: the body of a Jewish person is of a totally different quality from the body of [members] of all nations of the world [i.e., Gentile people] . . . A non-Jew’s entire reality is only vanity. It is written, ‘And the strangers shall guard and feed your flocks’ (Isaiah 61:5). The entire creation [of a non-Jew] exists only for the sake of the Jews . . . '

(From "Jewish Fundamentalism in Israel," by Israel Shahak and Norton Mezvinsky. London. Pluto Press, 1999; as quoted by the Washington Report on Middle East Affairs, March 2000.) http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0745312764/202-0473048-9188646

Follow this link to read about the "final war" the Lubavitcher's write about. http://www.noahide.com/finalwar.htm

This is scary stuff, folks, and there's SO much more information available on the internet about this very powerful group. Do some research...

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[Edit]

Replies:

[> Re: US Government & The Noahide Laws... -- uriel, 08:21:27 03/13/03 Thu

the seven noahide laws, and the whole british/american israel business will not go away, your links are few, check out ephraim by yair davidy, on http:www.geocities.com/hiberi/bkepraim.html. and see what this lunatic has planned for the palestinians.
basically the idea of noahide laws is that brit/am are the lost tribes of israel, when they join together with judea, ie the jews, they will rule the world, this is happening now,bush jnr is finishing his dads attempt to wipe out saddam, with covert aid from israel, support from britain.

fortunately if this theory is taken to its logical conclusion then the tribe of dan will judge them all, the tribe of dan was never a part of the exodus as such, for dan was never the child of jacob, see the book of enoch,and genesis 14;14, abram could never have pursued anyone to the land of dan,if dan was actually his great grandson.


>Laws of Ethics and Morality, (which I'd never even
>heard of until recently) are similar to the Christian
>Ten Commandments but do not come from the Holy Bible
>or Torah (they're from the Talmud which, to my
>understanding, supposedly contains the teachings of
>the Pharisees) and are said to be derived from
>specific passages in the Torah. The
>Chabad-Lubavitcher's claim that these laws are the
>very minimal observance for gentiles (non-Jews) to
>follow.
>
>In a footnote to Yebamoth 62a, the Talmud gives the
>Scriptural source of the seven Noahide laws as Genesis
>9:7.
>
>In Genesis 9:7, God says to Noah:
>
>And you, be ye fruitful, and multiply; bring forth
>abundantly in the earth, and multiply therein.
>
>Hmmm... there's not one mention of seven laws in that
>verse, despite what the Talmudic sages tell us.
>
>According to this group, Christians are guilty of
>idoltry (for believing in Jesus Christ) and are
>subject to death (by beheading!) According to their
>own website, they plan world domination... they want
>to replace the world's court systems with Rabbinical
>courts and they also plan to do away with what they
>consider to be pagan holidays like Christmas, Easter,
>Halloween, All Saint's Day, Good Friday, Ash
>Wednesday, etc, and anyone observing any of these
>holidays is subject to death !! People can purchase
>anti-Christmas fliers from their website. I KNOW this
>sounds INSANE... but it's true ! Use the links I
>provide and go read for yourself.
>
>www.noahide.com/minimum.htm
>
>From their website:
>
>"...according to the known Jewish ruling that
>Christians are idol worshippers." (Likkutei Sichos
>37:198) [Likkutei Sichos is a printed and bound
>anthology of talks given by Rabbi Schneerson]
>
>A gentile...is liable for the death penalty...if he
>has invented a religious holiday for himself...The
>general principle is we do not allow them to make new
>religious rituals and to make 'mitzvahs' for
>themselves by their own devices. Rather they may
>either become a Ger Tzeddek and accept all the
>Mitvahs; or he (the Noahide) should stand fast in his
>Torah (the seven Noahide Laws) without adding or
>diminishing...and if he does make some new 'mitzvah,'
>we lash him, punish him, and inform him that he is
>obligated with the death penalty for this..." (Rambam
>Mishne Torah—Hilchos Melachim 10:9)
>
>http://www.noahide.com/xmas.htm
>
>
>What I found to be shocking, beyond belief, is that
>the birthday of Rabbi Menachem Mendel Schneerson and
>the Noahide Laws have been WRITTEN INTO LAW here in
>the US ! The United States Congress and the seven most
>recent presidents (Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush,
>Clinton & Bush, Jr.) have USED the guise of "National
>Education Day," "National Education and Sharing Day
>U.S.A.," or "Education Day, USA" (the names have
>varied slightly through the years, same "celebration,"
>though) as an opportunity to pay tribute to Lubavitch
>Rabbi Schneerson's birthday, to his Lubavitchers and
>to the Seven Noahide Laws (with their beheadings and
>animal sacrifices and prohibition of Christianity and
>separate courts for Jews) that they hope to impose
>upon the United States and the world. The actual date
>"National Education Day" is celebrated changes from
>year to year based on the JEWISH/Babylonian lunar
>calendar but every year the President of the United
>States gives a proclamation honoring Rabbi Schneerson
>and the Noahide Laws.
>
>The law is (House Joint Resolution 104, Public Law
>102-14)
>http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c102:H.J.RES.104.
>ENR: and it urges us to follow the Noahide Laws as a
>basis for ethical values. I'm appalled by that ! I
>question why our presidents did not prefer to urge
>Americans to follow the Ten Commandments, IF they were
>going to mention ANY religious laws at all, which is
>what our CHRISTIAN nation believes, and not some
>man-made Pharisee laws which endorse MURDERING
>Christians for believing in Jesus Christ !
>
>Here are links to a number of the speeches given by
>several of our presidents, that honor Rabbi Schneerson
>and which have cleverly put the Noahide Laws into
>public US law.
>
>http://www.reagan.utexas.edu/resource/speeches/1985/404
>85f.htm - Ronald Reagan (1985)
>
>http://www.reagan.utexas.edu/resource/speeches/1986/419
>86b.htm - Ronald Reagan (1986)
>
>http://envirotext.eh.doe.gov/data/eos/clinton/19930402.
>html - Clinton (1993)
>
>http://sunsite.tus.ac.jp/pub/academic/political-science
>/whitehouse-papers/1995/Apr/1995-04-10-proclamation-of-
>education-and-sharing-day.text - Clinton (1995)
>
>http://198.17.75.65/fril/1996/19960402/96-8255.txt -
>Clinton (1996)
>
>http://www.ed.gov/PressReleases/04-1997/970417b.html -
>Clinton (1997)
>
>http://www.ed.gov/PressReleases/03-1999/wh-0325.html -
>Clinton (1999)
>
>http://clinton4.nara.gov/WH/New/html/20000324.html -
>Clinton (2000)
>
>http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2001/03/2001032
>2-2.html - George W. Bush (2001)
>
>http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/03/2002032
>5-4.html - George W. Bush (2002)
>
>
>Answers from the Rabbi Schneerson (website linked
>below):
>
>**** What is the primary mission for our generation to
>accomplish?
>
>The main avodah of this generation is to go out to the
>final war of the golus, to conquer and to purify all
>the gentile countries (such that "and kingship will be
>Hashem's," Ovadiah 1:21). --Shabbos Parshas VaYelech,
>5746.
>
>**** Did the Rebbe indicate that there is a danger in
>putting off the Noachide campaign?
>
>This phenomenon adds much momentum to the efforts of
>convincing the citizens of the world to observe the
>Seven Noachide Laws. When the President proclaims its
>importance it is easier to encourage average people to
>accept it and so the opportunity must not be lost. It
>also provides us with a clear sign from Above that
>there is no time to lose in teaching the gentiles of
>the world about G-d. --Shabbos Parshas Tsav, 5747,
>Sichos in English, vol. 35, p. 76.
>
>**** Aren't we busy enough working with Jews? Can we
>really afford to divert time and money to the campaign
>to transform the gentiles?
>
>The Rambam uses the expression, "lakuf ("to forcefully
>influence") all inhabitants of the world to accept the
>Noachide commands." Although obviously one must do
>this in a pleasant, gentle, and peaceful way, it still
>must be done with persistence. If you have already
>tried several times, try again nevertheless. We
>frequently see that although people are sometimes
>spoken to five times, they do not change until they
>hear it a sixth time! --Purim, 5747, Sichos in
>English, vol. 35, p. 4.
>
>**** Did the Rebbe give any practical advice on how to
>carry out the Noachide campaign?
>
>Encouraging the abandonment of Christianity:
>"...according to the known Jewish legal ruling that
>Christians are idol worshippers. --Likutei Sichos
>37:198, from a letter of the Rebbe dated 26 Iyra,
>5726, cited in Kol Boi HaOlam, p. 389.
>
>http://www.noahide.com/rebbe.htm
>
>
>In Israel Shahak and Norton Mezvinsky's book Jewish
>Fundamentalism in Israel (Pluto Press, 1999, pp.
>58-62), Rabbi Schneerson is cited as teaching that:
>
>Jews and non-Jews are of an entirely different
>species. A non-Jew should be punished by death if he
>kills an embryo, even if the embryo is non-Jewish,
>while the Jew should not be, even if the embryo is
>Jewish. Two kinds of souls exist — all non-Jewish
>souls originate from one of three satanic spheres,
>whereas Jewish souls originate from holiness. The
>universe was created for the sake of Jews, and the
>role of all non-Jews is to serve Jews. The late,
>highly revered Rabbi Menachem Mendel Schneerson, the
>'Lubavitcher Rebbe' who headed the Chabad movement and
>wielded great influence in Israel as well as in the
>U.S., explained that, 'The difference between a Jewish
>and a non-Jewish person stems from the common
>expression: ‘Let us differentiate.’ Thus, we do not
>have a case of profound change in which a person is
>merely on a superior level. Rather, we have a case of
>‘let us differentiate’ between totally different
>species. This is what needs to be said about the body:
>the body of a Jewish person is of a totally different
>quality from the body of [members] of all nations of
>the world [i.e., Gentile people] . . . A non-Jew’s
>entire reality is only vanity. It is written, ‘And the
>strangers shall guard and feed your flocks’ (Isaiah
>61:5). The entire creation [of a non-Jew] exists only
>for the sake of the Jews . . . '
>
>(From "Jewish Fundamentalism in Israel," by Israel
>Shahak and Norton Mezvinsky. London. Pluto Press,
>1999; as quoted by the Washington Report on Middle
>East Affairs, March 2000.)
>http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0745312764/202
>-0473048-9188646
>
>Follow this link to read about the "final war" the
>Lubavitcher's write about.
>http://www.noahide.com/finalwar.htm
>
>This is scary stuff, folks, and there's SO much more
>information available on the internet about this very
>powerful group. Do some research...

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
[Edit]

[> Re: US Government & The Noahide Laws... -- Elizabeth Ansel, 11:36:13 08/24/06 Thu




















I had a vision about one year ago this was coming.
We're up a creek without a paddle folks. Prepare for chaos about now, third time Iran refuses incentives.
Here is another servent of Jesus who will back this up
http://www.twoolivetrees@yahoo.com.
The NWO is also about order out of chaos.
I have some articles if anyone is interested.








>The Noahide (Noachide) Laws, or the Seven Universal
>Laws of Ethics and Morality, (which I'd never even
>heard of until recently) are similar to the Christian
>Ten Commandments but do not come from the Holy Bible
>or Torah (they're from the Talmud which, to my
>understanding, supposedly contains the teachings of
>the Pharisees) and are said to be derived from
>specific passages in the Torah. The
>Chabad-Lubavitcher's claim that these laws are the
>very minimal observance for gentiles (non-Jews) to
>follow.
>
>In a footnote to Yebamoth 62a, the Talmud gives the
>Scriptural source of the seven Noahide laws as Genesis
>9:7.
>
>In Genesis 9:7, God says to Noah:
>
>And you, be ye fruitful, and multiply; bring forth
>abundantly in the earth, and multiply therein.
>
>Hmmm... there's not one mention of seven laws in that
>verse, despite what the Talmudic sages tell us.
>
>According to this group, Christians are guilty of
>idoltry (for believing in Jesus Christ) and are
>subject to death (by beheading!) According to their
>own website, they plan world domination... they want
>to replace the world's court systems with Rabbinical
>courts and they also plan to do away with what they
>consider to be pagan holidays like Christmas, Easter,
>Halloween, All Saint's Day, Good Friday, Ash
>Wednesday, etc, and anyone observing any of these
>holidays is subject to death !! People can purchase
>anti-Christmas fliers from their website. I KNOW this
>sounds INSANE... but it's true ! Use the links I
>provide and go read for yourself.
>
>www.noahide.com/minimum.htm
>
>From their website:
>
>"...according to the known Jewish ruling that
>Christians are idol worshippers." (Likkutei Sichos
>37:198) [Likkutei Sichos is a printed and bound
>anthology of talks given by Rabbi Schneerson]
>
>A gentile...is liable for the death penalty...if he
>has invented a religious holiday for himself...The
>general principle is we do not allow them to make new
>religious rituals and to make 'mitzvahs' for
>themselves by their own devices. Rather they may
>either become a Ger Tzeddek and accept all the
>Mitvahs; or he (the Noahide) should stand fast in his
>Torah (the seven Noahide Laws) without adding or
>diminishing...and if he does make some new 'mitzvah,'
>we lash him, punish him, and inform him that he is
>obligated with the death penalty for this..." (Rambam
>Mishne Torah—Hilchos Melachim 10:9)
>
>http://www.noahide.com/xmas.htm
>
>
>What I found to be shocking, beyond belief, is that
>the birthday of Rabbi Menachem Mendel Schneerson and
>the Noahide Laws have been WRITTEN INTO LAW here in
>the US ! The United States Congress and the seven most
>recent presidents (Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush,
>Clinton & Bush, Jr.) have USED the guise of "National
>Education Day," "National Education and Sharing Day
>U.S.A.," or "Education Day, USA" (the names have
>varied slightly through the years, same "celebration,"
>though) as an opportunity to pay tribute to Lubavitch
>Rabbi Schneerson's birthday, to his Lubavitchers and
>to the Seven Noahide Laws (with their beheadings and
>animal sacrifices and prohibition of Christianity and
>separate courts for Jews) that they hope to impose
>upon the United States and the world. The actual date
>"National Education Day" is celebrated changes from
>year to year based on the JEWISH/Babylonian lunar
>calendar but every year the President of the United
>States gives a proclamation honoring Rabbi Schneerson
>and the Noahide Laws.
>
>The law is (House Joint Resolution 104, Public Law
>102-14)
>http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c102:H.J.RES.104.
>ENR: and it urges us to follow the Noahide Laws as a
>basis for ethical values. I'm appalled by that ! I
>question why our presidents did not prefer to urge
>Americans to follow the Ten Commandments, IF they were
>going to mention ANY religious laws at all, which is
>what our CHRISTIAN nation believes, and not some
>man-made Pharisee laws which endorse MURDERING
>Christians for believing in Jesus Christ !
>
>Here are links to a number of the speeches given by
>several of our presidents, that honor Rabbi Schneerson
>and which have cleverly put the Noahide Laws into
>public US law.
>
>http://www.reagan.utexas.edu/resource/speeches/1985/404
>85f.htm - Ronald Reagan (1985)
>
>http://www.reagan.utexas.edu/resource/speeches/1986/419
>86b.htm - Ronald Reagan (1986)
>
>http://envirotext.eh.doe.gov/data/eos/clinton/19930402.
>html - Clinton (1993)
>
>http://sunsite.tus.ac.jp/pub/academic/political-science
>/whitehouse-papers/1995/Apr/1995-04-10-proclamation-of-
>education-and-sharing-day.text - Clinton (1995)
>
>http://198.17.75.65/fril/1996/19960402/96-8255.txt -
>Clinton (1996)
>
>http://www.ed.gov/PressReleases/04-1997/970417b.html -
>Clinton (1997)
>
>http://www.ed.gov/PressReleases/03-1999/wh-0325.html -
>Clinton (1999)
>
>http://clinton4.nara.gov/WH/New/html/20000324.html -
>Clinton (2000)
>
>http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2001/03/2001032
>2-2.html - George W. Bush (2001)
>
>http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/03/2002032
>5-4.html - George W. Bush (2002)
>
>
>Answers from the Rabbi Schneerson (website linked
>below):
>
>**** What is the primary mission for our generation to
>accomplish?
>
>The main avodah of this generation is to go out to the
>final war of the golus, to conquer and to purify all
>the gentile countries (such that "and kingship will be
>Hashem's," Ovadiah 1:21). --Shabbos Parshas VaYelech,
>5746.
>
>**** Did the Rebbe indicate that there is a danger in
>putting off the Noachide campaign?
>
>This phenomenon adds much momentum to the efforts of
>convincing the citizens of the world to observe the
>Seven Noachide Laws. When the President proclaims its
>importance it is easier to encourage average people to
>accept it and so the opportunity must not be lost. It
>also provides us with a clear sign from Above that
>there is no time to lose in teaching the gentiles of
>the world about G-d. --Shabbos Parshas Tsav, 5747,
>Sichos in English, vol. 35, p. 76.
>
>**** Aren't we busy enough working with Jews? Can we
>really afford to divert time and money to the campaign
>to transform the gentiles?
>
>The Rambam uses the expression, "lakuf ("to forcefully
>influence") all inhabitants of the world to accept the
>Noachide commands." Although obviously one must do
>this in a pleasant, gentle, and peaceful way, it still
>must be done with persistence. If you have already
>tried several times, try again nevertheless. We
>frequently see that although people are sometimes
>spoken to five times, they do not change until they
>hear it a sixth time! --Purim, 5747, Sichos in
>English, vol. 35, p. 4.
>
>**** Did the Rebbe give any practical advice on how to
>carry out the Noachide campaign?
>
>Encouraging the abandonment of Christianity:
>"...according to the known Jewish legal ruling that
>Christians are idol worshippers. --Likutei Sichos
>37:198, from a letter of the Rebbe dated 26 Iyra,
>5726, cited in Kol Boi HaOlam, p. 389.
>
>http://www.noahide.com/rebbe.htm
>
>
>In Israel Shahak and Norton Mezvinsky's book Jewish
>Fundamentalism in Israel (Pluto Press, 1999, pp.
>58-62), Rabbi Schneerson is cited as teaching that:
>
>Jews and non-Jews are of an entirely different
>species. A non-Jew should be punished by death if he
>kills an embryo, even if the embryo is non-Jewish,
>while the Jew should not be, even if the embryo is
>Jewish. Two kinds of souls exist — all non-Jewish
>souls originate from one of three satanic spheres,
>whereas Jewish souls originate from holiness. The
>universe was created for the sake of Jews, and the
>role of all non-Jews is to serve Jews. The late,
>highly revered Rabbi Menachem Mendel Schneerson, the
>'Lubavitcher Rebbe' who headed the Chabad movement and
>wielded great influence in Israel as well as in the
>U.S., explained that, 'The difference between a Jewish
>and a non-Jewish person stems from the common
>expression: ‘Let us differentiate.’ Thus, we do not
>have a case of profound change in which a person is
>merely on a superior level. Rather, we have a case of
>‘let us differentiate’ between totally different
>species. This is what needs to be said about the body:
>the body of a Jewish person is of a totally different
>quality from the body of [members] of all nations of
>the world [i.e., Gentile people] . . . A non-Jew’s
>entire reality is only vanity. It is written, ‘And the
>strangers shall guard and feed your flocks’ (Isaiah
>61:5). The entire creation [of a non-Jew] exists only
>for the sake of the Jews . . . '
>
>(From "Jewish Fundamentalism in Israel," by Israel
>Shahak and Norton Mezvinsky. London. Pluto Press,
>1999; as quoted by the Washington Report on Middle
>East Affairs, March 2000.)
>http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0745312764/202
>-0473048-9188646
>
>Follow this link to read about the "final war" the
>Lubavitcher's write about.
>http://www.noahide.com/finalwar.htm
>
>This is scary stuff, folks, and there's SO much more
>information available on the internet about this very
>powerful group. Do some research...

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[Edit]
my testimony -- Rodger Tutt, 15:37:45 12/05/06 Tue

You can access my testimony through Google by typing in Rodger Tutt.

Because my testimony is helping so many people, I am posting it here so it will stay on your front page for awhile if that's ok with you. The many entries in my guest book that is accessible towards the bottom of the front page on my site, and the many positive emails in my email file folders, show that the content of my testimony is helping many people.
http://greater-emmanuel.org/Hope4You/
(nothing for sale on this site)

MY TESTIMONY


The idea that God lets any creature suffer endlessly has caused me more suffering than all other problems of my life combined. By the time I had reached the mission field I had hoped to have found a satisfactory answer that would justify God allowing this to happen. I didn't find such an answer. Surrounded by thousands of people, dozens of whom were dying every day and beginning an eternity of suffering in hell was too much for me.

In 1966, at age 28, it caused me to have a nervous breakdown. For several weeks I was confined to my bed in a state of terror night and day. The terror was caused by the fear of what a God I could not love or respect would do to me after I died. It took me twelve years to fully recover from the breakdown. I quickly became agnostic, for the Christian gospel and the Bible were no longer any comfort to me at all. Many evangelical friends tried to help me. They meant well, but in the end they all had only words of condemnation towards me. This added more suffering to my already intense suffering.

Gradually I began to learn that there have been, in centuries past, and still are today, a few people in the world that see a different kind of God in the Bible. They see a God who will not let any creature suffer forever. They see a God in the Bible who will change every second of everyone's suffering into something better that it happened, including the sufferings of Satan. I learned that a correctly (literally) translated Bible teaches universal transformation, not endless suffering in hell, or even annihilation. I read dozens of books, and listened to hundreds of tapes by men who believe this way and I gradually became converted to believing this way myself.

Since 1981, through my newspaper ads and my telephone ministry, I have sent out many hundreds of packets of literature explaining why I believe as I do. I have also sent this evidence to hundreds of pastors and Bible school teachers. None of them have told me that they are able to refute it. I have also read eight books that were supposed to refute the evidence in favor of universalism, but none of them do. Because of this evidence, my panic attacks became less frequent until twelve years after my breakdown they ceased altogether. Now nothing gives me greater pleasure than to make this evidence available to others who have suffered because of the same problem I had even though they have embraced Christ and His gospel for themselves, and I use a substantial amount of my money and time to this end.

Because of the enormous amount of suffering the idea of "endless hell" causes in this world, I am asking you to consider the possibility that you should stop endorsing the idea that the Bible teaches it. Or, at least, let others know that there are (and have been in centuries past) people who do not think the Bible teaches it.

Many of the responses from pastors and teachers range from a mild: "The majority don't agree with you so you must be wrong", to the vicious "For every week you leave your ad in the papers, God will increase the temperature of the fires of hell for you personally".
Most are somewhere in between these remarks. But none have told me they are able to refute the evidence. And, until they can, they will not be able to stop me from sharing the good news that a correctly (literally) translated Bible teaches universal transformation, not endless suffering in hell, or even annihilation.

A website that answers all the arguments that seem to support the idea that the Bible teaches endless suffering in hell is TENTMAKER. Although forum rules prevent me from posting forum links, you can easily Google it up. The “scholar’s corner” under “research” deals with every aspect of the subject. The more than 600 page search engine at the top of this same TENTMAKER front page is also very comprehensive regarding this subject. Just type in a key word or phrase from any argument or scripture passage, and ten articles will appear that refute the eternal hell and annihilation doctrines.

I am also going to guide you all to the testimony of a man whose experience was almost identical to mine. Even the thought processes that took him into, through, and out of his breakdown are the same as mine. Only he is much more eloquent in telling his story than I am in telling mine. His name is Charles Slagle.
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/Absolute-Assurance-in-Jesus-Christ.html

You can access my testimony through Google by typing in Rodger Tutt.

It may well be that a few members of this form or surfers will be able to benefit from the testimonies of Charles and myself.

May God's blessing rest with your spirit!
From Rodger Tutt in Toronto, Canada
“That God may be All in all” 1Cor.15:28

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what I wish I had known during my youth -- Rodger Tutt, 15:39:05 12/05/06 Tue

My name is Rodger Tutt. I am 68 years old. I could have avoided a horrific twelve year nervous breakdown had I known as a youth about the following information concerning what a correctly (literally, not interpretively) Bible teaches.
You can access my website through Google by typing in Rodger Tutt.

BOOKS THAT SHOW THAT THE BIBLE TEACHES UNIVERSAL SALVATION, THE ENTIRE CONTENTS OF WHICH CAN BE READ ONLINE

1. HOPE BEYOND HELL - Gerry Beauchemin (recently published)
http://www.hopebeyondhell.net/index.html
2. CHRIST TRIUMPHANT - Thomas Allin
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/ChristTriumphant.htm
3. THE BIBLE HELL - J.W. Hanson
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/TheBibleHell.html
4. THE ORIGON AND HISTORY OF THE DOCTRINE OF ENDLESS PUNISHMENT – Thomas Thayer
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/OriginandHistory.html
5. THE OUTCOME OF INFINITE GRACE – Dr. Loyal Hurley
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/infinitegrace.htm
6. JUST WHAT DO YOU MEAN "HELL" - J. Preston Eby
http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/savior-of-the-world/hell.htm
7. ONE HUNDRED SCRIPTURAL PROOFS THAT JESUS CHRIST WILL SAVE ALL MANKIND - Thomas Whittemore
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/ScripturalProofs.html
8. TWENTY-FOUR SERMONS ON UNIVERSAL SALVATION – John Bovee Dods
http://www.tentmaker.org/Bovee2.htm#Top
9. THE SECOND DEATH AND THE RESTITUTION OF ALL THINGS – Andrew Jukes
http://www.tentmaker.org/restitutionindex.htm
10. ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY REASONS FOR BELIEVING IN THE FINAL SALVATION OF ALL MANKIND – Erasmus Manford
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/150reasons.html
11. THE RICH MAN AND LAZARUS – J. Patching
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/RichManandLazarus-Patching.html
12. BIBLE TRANSLATIONS THAT DO NOT TEACH ETERNAL TORMENT – Gary Amirault
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/GatesOfHell.html
13. AION – AIONIOS – John Wesley Hanson
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/Aion_lim.html
14. BIBLE THREATENINGS EXPLAINED – John Wesley Hanson
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/BibleThreateningsExplained.html
15. THE CASE OF JUDAS, ETCETERA
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/asw/Chapter16.html
16. THE PROBLEM OF EVIL – John Essex
AND THE ROLE OF THE ADVERSARY – James Webb
http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/TheProblemofEvil.html
17. HIS ACHIEVEMENT ARE WE – James Coram
http://concordant.org/expohtml/HisAchievement/index.html

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He who reject GODS instrudtions -- Pastore Franszwa (Does not reject man but GOD), 18:52:53 12/16/06 Sat

HOLY SPIRIT
2 Corinthians 4:4 [satan,] has long enough blinded us with the help of the Christian preacher, now
here is the Light for us who believe in Jesus Christ. Now then, it is unmistakable clear [ satan and his demons ] can not enter GODS HOLY TEMPLE. This means us ! Of course if we accept GODS presents.
Colossians 1:27 To them God has chosen to make known among the Gentiles the glorious riches of this { mystery, } which is Christ in you, the hope of glory. [However, the New Testament is clear that Christ, by the Holy Spirit takes up permanent residence in all believers ]
Luke 11:13 If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!"
Luke 12:10 And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.
Acts 5:32 We are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him."
Acts 7:48 "However, the Most High does not live in houses made by men. As the prophet says:
1 Corinthians 3:16 Don't you know that you yourselves are God's temple and that God's Spirit lives in you?
1 Corinthians 3:17 If anyone destroys God's temple, God will destroy him; for God's temple is sacred, and you are that temple.
1 Corinthians 3:18 Do not deceive yourselves. If any one of you thinks he is wise by the standards of this age,
he should become a "fool" so that he may become wise.
1 Corinthians 6:19 Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you,
whom you have received from God? You are not your own;
1 Corinthians 6:20 you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body.
2 Corinthians 13:14 May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God,
and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all.
Ephesians 1:13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation.
Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,
Ephesians 4:30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.
1 Thessalonians 1:6 You became imitators of us and of the Lord; in spite of severe suffering,
you welcomed the message with the joy given by the Holy Spirit.
1 Thessalonians 4:8 Therefore, he who rejects this instruction does not reject man but God, who gives you his Holy Spirit.
2 Timothy 1:14 Guard the good deposit that was entrusted to you--guard it with the help of the Holy Spirit who lives in us.
Titus 3:5 he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy.
He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit,
Hebrews 2:4 God also testified to it by signs, wonders and various miracles, and gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to his will.
Hebrews 3:7 So, as the Holy Spirit says: "Today, if you hear his voice,
Hebrews 6:4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit,
Hebrews 10:15 The Holy Spirit also testifies to us about this. First he says:
Romans 8:9 You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you.
And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.
Romans 8:10 But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness.
Romans 8:11 And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you,
He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit, who lives in you.
Colossians 1:26-29 For ages and ages this message was kept secret from everyone, but now it has been explained to God's people. 27 God did this because he wanted you Gentiles to understand his wonderful and glorious mystery. And the mystery is that Christ lives in you, and he is your hope of sharing in God's glory.
28 We announce the message about Christ, and we use all our wisdom to warn and teach everyone, so that all of Christ's followers will grow and become mature. 29 That's why I work so hard and use the mighty power he gives me.
As soon as you realize of the reality of Jesus Christ in us, it would drastically change our Attitudes-Emotions and Actions.

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[Edit]
my testimony -- Rodger Tutt, 12:33:41 01/24/07 Wed

You can access my website through Google by typing in Rodger Tutt.

Because my testimony is helping so many people, I am posting it here so it will stay on your front page for awhile if that's ok with you. The many entries in my guest book that is accessible towards the bottom of the front page on my site, and the many positive emails in my email file folders, show that the content of my testimony is helping many people.
http://greater-emmanuel.org/Hope4You/
(nothing for sale on this site)

Or, you can access my website through Google by typing in Rodger Tutt.

MY TESTIMONY


The idea that God lets any creature suffer endlessly has caused me more suffering than all other problems of my life combined. By the time I had reached the mission field I had hoped to have found a satisfactory answer that would justify God allowing this to happen. I didn't find such an answer. Surrounded by thousands of people, dozens of whom were dying every day and beginning an eternity of suffering in hell was too much for me.

In 1966, at age 28, it caused me to have a nervous breakdown. For several weeks I was confined to my bed in a state of terror night and day. The terror was caused by the fear of what a God I could not love or respect would do to me after I died. It took me twelve years to fully recover from the breakdown. I quickly became agnostic, for the Christian gospel and the Bible were no longer any comfort to me at all. Many evangelical friends tried to help me. They meant well, but in the end they all had only words of condemnation towards me. This added more suffering to my already intense suffering.

Gradually I began to learn that there have been, in centuries past, and still are today, a few people in the world that see a different kind of God in the Bible. They see a God who will not let any creature suffer forever. They see a God in the Bible who will change every second of everyone's suffering into something better that it happened, including the sufferings of Satan. I learned that a correctly (literally) translated Bible teaches universal transformation, not endless suffering in hell, or even annihilation. I read dozens of books, and listened to hundreds of tapes by men who believe this way and I gradually became converted to believing this way myself.

Since 1981, through my newspaper ads and my telephone ministry, I have sent out many hundreds of packets of literature explaining why I believe as I do. I have also sent this evidence to hundreds of pastors and Bible school teachers. None of them have told me that they are able to refute it. I have also read eight books that were supposed to refute the evidence in favor of universalism, but none of them do. Because of this evidence, my panic attacks became less frequent until twelve years after my breakdown they ceased altogether. Now nothing gives me greater pleasure than to make this evidence available to others who have suffered because of the same problem I had even though they have embraced Christ and His gospel for themselves, and I use a substantial amount of my money and time to this end.

Because of the enormous amount of suffering the idea of "endless hell" causes in this world, I am asking you to consider the possibility that you should stop endorsing the idea that the Bible teaches it. Or, at least, let others know that there are (and have been in centuries past) people who do not think the Bible teaches it.

Many of the responses from pastors and teachers range from a mild: "The majority don't agree with you so you must be wrong", to the vicious "For every week you leave your ad in the papers, God will increase the temperature of the fires of hell for you personally".
Most are somewhere in between these remarks. But none have told me they are able to refute the evidence. And, until they can, they will not be able to stop me from sharing the good news that a correctly (literally) translated Bible teaches universal transformation, not endless suffering in hell, or even annihilation.

A website that answers all the arguments that seem to support the idea that the Bible teaches endless suffering in hell is TENTMAKER. Although forum rules prevent me from posting forum links, you can easily Google it up. The “scholar’s corner” under “research” deals with every aspect of the subject. The more than 600 page search engine at the top of this same TENTMAKER front page is also very comprehensive regarding this subject. Just type in a key word or phrase from any argument or scripture passage, and ten articles will appear that refute the eternal hell and annihilation doctrines.

I am also going to guide you all to the testimony of a man whose experience was almost identical to mine. Even the thought processes that took him into, through, and out of his breakdown are the same as mine. Only he is much more eloquent in telling his story than I am in telling mine. His name is Charles Slagle.
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/Absolute-Assurance-in-Jesus-Christ.html

Or, you can also Google up ABSOLUTE ASSURANCE

You can access my forum through Google by typing in Rodger Tutt.

It may well be that a few members of this form or surfers will be able to benefit from the testimonies of Charles and myself.

May God's blessing rest with your spirit!
From Rodger Tutt in Toronto, Canada
“That God may be All in all” 1Cor.15:28

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[Edit]

Replies:

[> what I wish I had known during my youth -- Rodger Tutt, 12:34:53 01/24/07 Wed

My name is Rodger Tutt. I am 68 years old. I could have avoided a horrific twelve year nervous breakdown had I known as a youth about the following information concerning what a correctly (literally, not interpretively) translated Bible teaches

You can access my website through Google by typing in Rodger Tutt, or
My website is http://greater-emmanuel.org/Hope4You/

You can also access most of the following writings through Google by typing in the title.

BOOKS THAT SHOW THAT THE BIBLE TEACHES UNIVERSAL SALVATION, THE ENTIRE CONTENTS OF WHICH CAN BE READ ONLINE

1. HOPE BEYOND HELL - Gerry Beauchemin (recently published)
http://www.hopebeyondhell.net/index.html
2. CHRIST TRIUMPHANT - Thomas Allin
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/ChristTriumphant.htm
3. THE BIBLE HELL - J.W. Hanson
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/TheBibleHell.html
4. THE ORIGON AND HISTORY OF THE DOCTRINE OF ENDLESS PUNISHMENT – Thomas Thayer
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/OriginandHistory.html
5. THE OUTCOME OF INFINITE GRACE – Dr. Loyal Hurley
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/infinitegrace.htm
6. JUST WHAT DO YOU MEAN "HELL" - J. Preston Eby
http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/savior-of-the-world/hell.htm
7. ONE HUNDRED SCRIPTURAL PROOFS THAT JESUS CHRIST WILL SAVE ALL MANKIND - Thomas Whittemore
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/ScripturalProofs.html
8. TWENTY-FOUR SERMONS ON UNIVERSAL SALVATION – John Bovee Dods
http://www.tentmaker.org/Bovee2.htm#Top
9. THE SECOND DEATH AND THE RESTITUTION OF ALL THINGS – Andrew Jukes
http://www.tentmaker.org/restitutionindex.htm
10. ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY REASONS FOR BELIEVING IN THE FINAL SALVATION OF ALL MANKIND – Erasmus Manford
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/150reasons.html
11. THE RICH MAN AND LAZARUS – J. Patching
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/RichManandLazarus-Patching.html
12. BIBLE TRANSLATIONS THAT DO NOT TEACH ETERNAL TORMENT – Gary Amirault
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/GatesOfHell.html
13. AION – AIONIOS – John Wesley Hanson
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/Aion_lim.html
14. BIBLE THREATENINGS EXPLAINED – John Wesley Hanson
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/BibleThreateningsExplained.html
15. THE CASE OF JUDAS, ETCETERA
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/asw/Chapter16.html
16. THE PROBLEM OF EVIL – John Essex
AND THE ROLE OF THE ADVERSARY – James Webb
http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/TheProblemofEvil.html
17. HIS ACHIEVEMENT ARE WE – James Coram
http://concordant.org/expohtml/HisAchievement/index.html

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[> [> A literally translated Bible teaches universal salvation -- Rodger Tutt, 12:35:53 01/24/07 Wed

THE ACTUAL TRUTH IS ALWAYS WORTH REPEATING

The “danger” in preaching the truth resides only in the imagination of the person who doesn’t understand the truth.

The online book “HIS ACHIEVEMENT ARE WE” by James Coram needs no defense. It stands on its own merit.
It has helped many people. It will help many more.

All comments and questions regarding this book are responded to within the writing itself, for example, “WHAT ARE CORRECT TRANSLATIONS OF THE BIBLE?”

A frequent response to first learning about the existence of this book is,
“You believe the words of men, but we believe the Bible.”
But the actual reading of, “HIS ACHIEVEMENT ARE WE” by James Coram will prove to all readers that JUST THE OPPOSITE IS TRUE.

IMHO, "HIS ACHIEVEMENT ARE WE" by James Coram is the most powerful of all of the dozens of books that I have read, the hundreds of tapes that I have listened to, and the many online articles that I have read that show that a correctly, (literally, not interpretively) translated Bible teaches universal salvation, not eternal torment, or even annihilation. (I am 68 years old)

In fact, to me it is so powerful that it renders all arguments to the contrary completely irrelevant to the truth that it proves that, by the time God’s plan for the ages of time has been consummated, the universal salvation of all sinful creatures from everything from which they need to be saved, most certainly, will have occurred.

It can be read in its entirety online at http://concordant.org/expohtml/HisAchievement/index.html

Or, it can be Googled up by typing in HIS ACHIEVEMENT ARE WE

It has seventeen chapters, each chapter having its own highlighted heading followed by a short introduction.
Just click on the highlighted heading and the entire text of that chapter will appear.

Since I have read many writings, the sum total of which contain every argument in existence in support of the idea that the Bible teaches eternal torment or annihilation, I am confident that if anyone were to read "HIS ACHIEVEMENT ARE WE" in it's entirety, they would change their mind about their belief that the Bible teaches eternal torment or annihilation.

However, as a friend recently reminded me, one must be disposed of the Ultimate Placer to receive any revelation; it’s all about Sovereign causes & effects.

From Rodger Tutt in Toronto, Canada
“That God may be All in all” 1Cor.15:28

Write to me personally at rodgertutt@sympatico.ca

My website is http://greater-emmanuel.org/Hope4You/

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Culmination of End Times -- Aurora, 16:52:12 02/11/07 Sun

The hourglass is nearly empty. The culmination of End Times is upon us and the Great Tribulation is just around the corner. There are a total of TWO things that you need in order to obtain Eternal Life and Man-Made Religion is not one of them. (1) A Good Heart Condition. (2) An Acceptance of Christ as Lord and Savior. We urge those who wish to obtain Eternal Life in Christ's Kingdom to read the following very important message: An Important End Times Message

For additional End Times information also visit: End Times Truths Revealed

And for Free End Times Newsletters visit: : Free End Times Newsletter Storefront

We don’t aim to twist arms or convince anyone of anything they aren’t ready or willing to believe as their hearts will ultimately dictate what they perceive to be truth. However, it is also our responsibility to warn those who do not accept this Truth, will face Judgment at Armageddon. For this reason we pray that the eyes and hearts of all who read our message are opened to the Truth whether that is now, or in the near future when our words come to pass.

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my testimony -- Rodger Tutt, 05:42:18 04/25/07 Wed

Because my testimony is helping so many people, I am posting it here so it will stay on your front page for awhile if that's ok with you. The many entries in my guest book that is accessible towards the bottom of the front page on my site, and the many positive emails in my email file folders, show that the content of my testimony is helping many people.

http://greater-emmanuel.org/Hope4You/
(nothing for sale on this site)

Also see the testimonies at http://www.tentmaker.org/visitorcomments.htm

MY TESTIMONY

The idea that God lets any creature suffer endlessly has caused me more suffering than all other problems of my life combined. By the time I had reached the mission field I had hoped to have found a satisfactory answer that would justify God allowing this to happen. I didn't find such an answer. Surrounded by thousands of people, dozens of whom were dying every day and beginning an eternity of suffering in hell was too much for me.

In 1966, at age 28, it caused me to have a nervous breakdown. For several weeks I was confined to my bed in a state of terror night and day. The terror was caused by the fear of what a God I could not love or respect would do to me after I died. It took me twelve years to fully recover from the breakdown. I quickly became agnostic, for the Christian gospel and the Bible were no longer any comfort to me at all. Many evangelical friends tried to help me. They meant well, but in the end they all had only words of condemnation towards me. This added more suffering to my already intense suffering.

Gradually I began to learn that there have been, in centuries past, and still are today, a few people in the world that see a different kind of God in the Bible. They see a God who will not let any creature suffer forever. They see a God in the Bible who will change every second of everyone's suffering into something better that it happened, including the sufferings of Satan. I learned that a correctly (literally) translated Bible teaches universal transformation, not endless suffering in hell, or even annihilation. I read dozens of books, and listened to hundreds of tapes by men who believe this way and I gradually became converted to believing this way myself.

Since 1981, through my newspaper ads and my telephone ministry, I have sent out many hundreds of packets of literature explaining why I believe as I do. I have also sent this evidence to hundreds of pastors and Bible school teachers. None of them have told me that they are able to refute it. I have also read eight books that were supposed to refute the evidence in favor of universalism, but none of them do. Because of this evidence, my panic attacks became less frequent until twelve years after my breakdown they ceased altogether. Now nothing gives me greater pleasure than to make this evidence available to others who have suffered because of the same problem I had even though they have embraced Christ and His gospel for themselves, and I use a substantial amount of my money and time to this end.

Because of the enormous amount of suffering the idea of "endless hell" causes in this world, I am asking you to consider the possibility that you should stop endorsing the idea that the Bible teaches it. Or, at least, let others know that there are (and have been in centuries past) people who do not think the Bible teaches it.

Many of the responses from pastors and teachers range from a mild: "The majority don't agree with you so you must be wrong", to the vicious "For every week you leave your ad in the papers, God will increase the temperature of the fires of hell for you personally".
Most are somewhere in between these remarks. But none have told me they are able to refute the evidence. And, until they can, they will not be able to stop me from sharing the good news that a correctly (literally) translated Bible teaches universal transformation, not endless suffering in hell, or even annihilation.

A website that answers all the arguments that seem to support the idea that the Bible teaches endless suffering in hell is TENTMAKER. Although forum rules prevent me from posting forum links, you can easily Google it up. The “scholar’s corner” under “research” deals with every aspect of the subject. The more than 600 page search engine at the top of this same TENTMAKER front page is also very comprehensive regarding this subject. Just type in a key word or phrase from any argument or scripture passage, and ten articles will appear that refute the eternal hell and annihilation doctrines.

I am also going to guide you all to the testimony of a man whose experience was almost identical to mine. Even the thought processes that took him into, through, and out of his breakdown are the same as mine. Only he is much more eloquent in telling his story than I am in telling mine. His name is Charles Slagle.
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/Absolute-Assurance-in-Jesus-Christ.html

Or, you can also Google up ABSOLUTE ASSURANCE

You can access my forum through Google by typing in Rodger Tutt.

It may well be that a few members of this form or surfers will be able to benefit from the testimonies of Charles and myself.

May God's blessing rest with your spirit!
From Rodger Tutt in Toronto, Canada
“That God may be All in all” 1Cor.15:28

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[> what I wish I had known during my youth -- Rodger Tutt, 05:46:02 04/25/07 Wed

My name is Rodger Tutt. I am 68 years old. I could have avoided a horrific twelve year nervous breakdown had I known as a youth about the following information concerning what a correctly (literally, not interpretively) translated Bible teaches

You can access my website through Google by typing in Rodger Tutt, or
My website is http://greater-emmanuel.org/Hope4You/

You can also access most of the following writings through Google by typing in the title.

BOOKS THAT SHOW THAT THE BIBLE TEACHES UNIVERSAL SALVATION, THE ENTIRE CONTENTS OF WHICH CAN BE READ ONLINE

0. ABSOLUTE ASSURANCE IN JESUS CHRIST – Charles Slagle
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/Absolute-Assurance-in-Jesus-Christ.html
1. HOPE BEYOND HELL - Gerry Beauchemin (recently published)
http://www.hopebeyondhell.net/index.html
2. CHRIST TRIUMPHANT - Thomas Allin
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/ChristTriumphant.htm
3. THE BIBLE HELL - J.W. Hanson
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/TheBibleHell.html
4. THE ORIGON AND HISTORY OF THE DOCTRINE OF ENDLESS PUNISHMENT – Thomas Thayer
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/OriginandHistory.html
5. THE OUTCOME OF INFINITE GRACE – Dr. Loyal Hurley
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/infinitegrace.htm
6. JUST WHAT DO YOU MEAN "HELL" - J. Preston Eby
http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/savior-of-the-world/hell.htm
7. ONE HUNDRED SCRIPTURAL PROOFS THAT JESUS CHRIST WILL SAVE ALL MANKIND - Thomas Whittemore
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/ScripturalProofs.html
8. TWENTY-FOUR SERMONS ON UNIVERSAL SALVATION – John Bovee Dods
http://www.tentmaker.org/Bovee2.htm#Top
9. THE SECOND DEATH AND THE RESTITUTION OF ALL THINGS – Andrew Jukes
http://www.tentmaker.org/restitutionindex.htm
10. ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY REASONS FOR BELIEVING IN THE FINAL SALVATION OF ALL MANKIND – Erasmus Manford
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/150reasons.html
11. THE RICH MAN AND LAZARUS – J. Patching
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/RichManandLazarus-Patching.html
12. BIBLE TRANSLATIONS THAT DO NOT TEACH ETERNAL TORMENT – Gary Amirault
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/GatesOfHell.html
13. AION – AIONIOS – John Wesley Hanson
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/Aion_lim.html
14. BIBLE THREATENINGS EXPLAINED – John Wesley Hanson
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/BibleThreateningsExplained.html
15. THE CASE OF JUDAS, ETCETERA
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/asw/Chapter16.html
16. THE PROBLEM OF EVIL – John Essex
AND THE ROLE OF THE ADVERSARY – James Webb
http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/TheProblemofEvil.html
17. HIS ACHIEVEMENT ARE WE – James Coram
http://concordant.org/expohtml/HisAchievement/index.html

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HIS ACHIEVEMENT ARE WE by James Coram -- Rodger Tutt, 05:47:42 04/25/07 Wed

The introduction at the beginning of each chapter is not the chapter itself. You must click on the highlighted title of each chapter to bring up the entire chapter to read it. Each chapter is quite long and comprehensive.

The “danger” in preaching the truth resides only in the imagination of the person who doesn’t understand the truth.

The online book “HIS ACHIEVEMENT ARE WE” by James Coram needs no defense. It stands on its own merit.
It has helped many people. It will help many more.

Most comments and questions regarding this book are responded to within the writing itself, for example, “WHAT ARE CORRECT TRANSLATIONS OF THE BIBLE?”

A frequent response to first learning about the existence of this book is,
“You believe the words of men, but we believe the Bible.”
But the actual reading of, “HIS ACHIEVEMENT ARE WE” by James Coram will prove to all readers that JUST THE OPPOSITE IS TRUE.

IMHO, "HIS ACHIEVEMENT ARE WE" by James Coram is the most powerful of all of the dozens of books that I have read, the hundreds of tapes that I have listened to, and the many online articles that I have read that show that a correctly, (literally, not interpretively) translated Bible teaches universal salvation, not eternal torment, or even annihilation. (I am 68 years old)

In fact, to me it is so powerful that it renders all arguments to the contrary completely irrelevant to the truth that it proves that, by the time God’s plan for the ages of time has been consummated, the universal salvation of all sinful creatures from everything from which they need to be saved, most certainly, will have occurred.

It can be read in its entirety online at http://concordant.org/expohtml/HisAchievement/index.html

Or, it can be Googled up by typing in HIS ACHIEVEMENT ARE WE

It has seventeen chapters, each chapter having its own highlighted heading followed by a short introduction.
Just click on the highlighted heading and the entire text of that chapter will appear.

Since I have read many writings, the sum total of which contain every argument in existence in support of the idea that the Bible teaches eternal torment or annihilation, I am confident that if anyone were to read "HIS ACHIEVEMENT ARE WE" in it's entirety, they would change their mind about their belief that the Bible teaches eternal torment or annihilation.

However, as a friend recently reminded me, one must be disposed of the Ultimate Placer to receive any revelation; it’s all about Sovereign causes & effects. Or as Ralph Waldo Emerson put it, “People only see what they are prepared to see.”

From Rodger Tutt in Toronto, Canada
“That God may be All in all” 1Cor.15:28

Write to me personally at rodgertutt@sympatico.ca

My website is http://greater-emmanuel.org/Hope4You/

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When Will Noahide Be Enforced? -- Gary Schooley, 07:22:13 04/26/03 Sat

My question is WHEN will the Noahide LAW be enforced? When will the accusations and decapitations start?

It appears that some sort of major, worldwide religious conflict would have to happen before the necessity to enforce it. Something that would bring about a One World Religion for example.

Any time line on when it goes into action? Since it's already law, what is keeping it from being acted upon?

Thanks!
Gary

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[> Re: When Will Noahide Be Enforced? -- Ray, 04:57:22 08/07/03 Thu

>My question is WHEN will the Noahide LAW be enforced?
>When will the accusations and decapitations start?

Some elements exist already. One of the details of the Noahide heresy is that for the crime of murder there is to be no appeal of conviction and the sentence is to be carried out quickly. As governor of Texas, Bush W) sent several people to their deaths even though evidence had proven them innocent (after their conviction). For many years this thing has been growing behind the scenes and the current administration is essentially controlled by those pushing the Noahide Laws. A new legal "reform" called justice 2020 is being installed all over the country and it has nothing to do with justice. There may never be an announcement that the Noahide Laws have replaced the constitution, but that is what is happening steadily and surely.


>It appears that some sort of major, worldwide
>religious conflict would have to happen before the
>necessity to enforce it. Something that would bring
>about a One World Religion for example.

I think you're right. Such a great crisis is certainly planned. Probably another staged terrorist attack, but this time with many more deaths and a declared martial law emergency.
>
>Any time line on when it goes into action? Since it's
>already law, what is keeping it from being acted upon?
>

The only time line I can offer is that when we see Jerusalem circled by foreign armies, the sh-t is about to hit the fan. As to what is keeping it from being acted on, I think the forces of antichrist are still in the organizational phase of the project. It'll come soon enough.

Ray

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[> [> Re: When Will Noahide Be Enforced? -- Gary, 16:40:08 08/09/03 Sat

Thanks Ray.

Yes, I agree that we are just one major terror act away from marshal law and drastic changes all over the place. "Experts" say, there's no doubt at all that another terror attack WILL happen, sooner or later. The only questions are when and what?

I also take into consideration the rumblings of certain antichrists, and I'm wondering how Noahide and the antichrist ambitions work together? The New Age Movement / New World Order / antichrist / Noahide (etc.) all will be working together, even if they don't know it.

One thing that baffles me about marshal law and the disarming of citizens that's been going on around the world is, since 9-11, gun sales in America has been at an all time high, and the American citizen is now "armed to the teeth". How are they going to deal with that? While most of the world is disarming, Americans are arming themselves all the more. It's gonna be interesting to say the least.

Gar

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[> [> [> Re: When Will Noahide Be Enforced? -- QUITTNER, 12:43:50 08/11/03 Mon

Gary, as I see it, the Noahide laws have been incorporated into current legal codes of many countries, and the courts of justice of these countries enforce these laws. The Noahide laws were, if it is true that Noah actually taught them, very old and rudimentary.
..... There are now very many religions, and some of them have many versions/denominations, but their clergy often not at all enforce the requirements of these (quite out of date?) religions.
..... All countries are not only entitled, but even required, to defend their citizens, and terrorists can only be counteracted by "proper" countermeasures that must remain in place as long as more terrorist acts can be expected. Unfortunately terrorists do not conform to "civilized" methods/customs, and therefore, in my opinion, they should be treated in the same way as they are treating their victims.
..... Terrorists know where guns are located, but after their activities their victims are rarely in a position to use guns against the terrorists. And suicide bombers WANT to die, they couldn't care less if they are killed by police or the military or the judicial system. It's highly unlikely that terrorists even think of Noah, or about his laws.

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[> [> [> [> Re: When Will Noahide Be Enforced? -- Gary, 11:29:42 08/12/03 Tue

Quittner-

I wasn't refering to gun ownership in the context of terrorists, I was speaking of that in the context of when antichrist appears and Noahide decides it's time to disarm America like it has the rest of the world. The reference to terrorism and 9-11 was only to illustrate how *we*, as opposed to the rest of the world, are "armed to the teeth".

You see, I expect that the disarming of the rest of the world, along with mounting talk and plans to disarm America as well, are all being coordinated to make it easier for true Christians to be rounded up and beheaded. My mention of terrorists was just incidental tho this.

Gary

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[> [> [> [> [> Re: When Will Noahide Be Enforced? -- QUITTNER, 09:26:06 08/26/03 Tue

>>> Noahide decides it's time to disarm America like it has the rest of the world. <<<
..... Gary, I am not aware that the Noahides had, nor ever will have, the power to disarm the people living in ANY country. Where did you get that idea?

>>> ... true Christians to be rounded up and beheaded. ... <<<
..... WOW!!! Why not hanged or (whatever)??? As I remember history, some unauthorized denomination(s) of so-called Christianity actually declared true Christians to be "heretics" or "witches" or "..." and did all sorts of terrible things to them.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> Re: When Will Noahide Be Enforced? -- Gary Schooley, 18:41:19 08/27/03 Wed

>>>> Noahide decides it's time to disarm America like
>it has the rest of the world. <<<
>..... Gary, I am not aware that the Noahides had, nor
>ever will have, the power to disarm the people living
>in ANY country. Where did you get that idea?

It's a the New Age Movement / New World Order thing, and doesn't directly have to do with Noahide. There is a world wide movement going on to disarm everyone, but it's not to America yet. For further details, look to Austrailia. It's all (going to be) part of the end time, marshal law scenario. But, it will make it easier for them to coral and behead people if they aren't armed.

>>>> ... true Christians to be rounded up and beheaded.
>... <<<
>..... WOW!!! Why not hanged or (whatever)??? As I
>remember history, some unauthorized denomination(s) of
>so-called Christianity actually declared true
>Christians to be "heretics" or "witches" or "..." and
>did all sorts of terrible things to them.

Not only is it all right there in Scri[ture, but the NWO already has plans to "kill all the useless eaters". Their prefered method, so they can harvest body parts, has already been stated as beheading.

Likewise, the Georgia Guide Stones also prescribe maintianing the world population below 500,000,000. There are a number of NWO, etc., sources calling for a "major die off", and Scripture, Noahide and the NWO all agree that beheading is the way it'll be done.

In light of the fact that Noahide is an end time "conspiracy" sort of thing, I'm surprised you are not aware of these things. There's far more to tales of guillotines in sealed railroad cars, and concentration camps, than a vivid immagination can conjur. End time beheadings are supported by a number of NWO, etc., documents.

Gary

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[> [> [> [> [> [> Re: When Will Noahide Be Enforced? -- Gary Schooley, 08:44:12 08/29/03 Fri

And, in case you doubt, here's something to corroberate that:

http://www.angelfire.com/d20/philadelphians/guilloti.html

http://www.angelfire.com/d20/philadelphians/urgent.html

http://nwo-warning.tripod.com/nwo_guillotines.htm

There's plenty more where that came from. If I had not recently lost my old hard drive, I could provide you with countless more examples of what's going to happen. I found these using a Google search of "100,000 Guillotines".

Gary



P.S. WOW! I just read the one above called "urgent". That is some freaky stuff! About 3/4 down, marked "URGENT, URGENT ALLERT!!!", it talks about foreign forces coming into America. I've been reading things similar in many other places, about foreign forces already being here, and how *they* will be used to control Americans and enforce marshal law. Well, it now dawns on me, that before they can do that, they need to create the need (for foreign troops) by having OUR military "conveniently" out of the way. Well, the war in Iraq, along with other proposed military actions around the world, would pretty much accomplish getting *our* troops out of the way. Man, that's some ominous stuff! Are they right? IS it starting to happen NOW??? It's starting to make some sense now; pieces are starting to fall into place. I'm glad *I* know Jesus and am ready to go!

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[> Re: When Will Noahide Be Enforced? -- john, 14:41:15 08/21/07 Tue


STOP WITH THE EXTREMIST IDIOCY.THERE WILL BE NO BEHEADINGS.RESEARCH NOAHIDE NAZARENE,THE EMERGING NEW THEOLOGY.

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Filmmaking Chat on SpotLight Tv -- christian Lestat Bussiere, 14:49:24 11/12/07 Mon


Film Talk on Spotlight Tv with Host Paul Gorman (Erie Pa )

FRIDAY, NOVEMBER 9

7:30 P.M. "Two" by Jim Lechesfsky

8:00 P.M. "Pole Positions" more... (Short) by Paul Gorman & Jason Hull
"Virgin Pockets" by Paul Gorman

9:30 P.M. "Fist Of The Vampire" by Len Kabasinski

11:00 P.M. "Grindhouse Massacre" by Dustin Austin

12:30 P.M. "Aspiring Psychopath" by Ryan Cavalline World Premiere

SATURDAY, NOVEMBER 10

2:00 A.M. "Swamp Zombies" by Len Kabasinski

4:00 A.M. "Bad Friend" by Dustin Austin

6:00 A.M. "There You Were" by Nikki Hassinger
7:00 A.M. "Smoke Junkies" by Marie Madison

8:00 A.M. "Missed Cues" by Lisa Seelinger
8:45 A.M. "Kings & Queens by Lisa Seelinger

9:00 A.M. "Hunting Camp" by John C. Lyons

9:30 A.M. "BOGO" by John C. Lyons

9:45 A.M. "Last Skate For Couples" by D. Allan Beck

10:00 A.M. "Edinboro Meets The Spider" by Monster Mark

10:30 A.M. "Dead Body Man" by Ryan Cavalline

12:00 P.M. "Dead Body Man 2: Separation Anxiety" by Ryan Cavalline
1:30 P.M. "The Making Of DBM 2" by Ryan Cavalline
"Dead Body Man Chronicles" Sneek Peek by Ryan Cavalline

2:00 P.M. "Fury" by Paul Gorman & Steed Merrill

3:30 P.M. "Anger Management: The Making of 'Fury' by Paul Gorman

4:00 P.M. "GMD Television" - Shorts & Documentarys by GMD Films

5:30 P.M. "Human's Lib" by AJ & Nick Detisch

6:00 P.M. "Wolf At The Door" by Matt Detisch

8:00 P.M. "Chasing Darkness" by Jason Hull

10:00 P.M. Wine & Cheese Reception Open To The Public

Meet the Film Makers, Cast & Crews from the Erie Film Community.

Please Note that these times are Close Estimates based on run times of the movies and expected intermission breaks, as well as additional performances or Q & A's with the film makers. If there's a specific film you want to see, it's advised to arrive a half hour early and plan to stay a half hour later.

While "Films For Food" is free and open to everyone, Parents should be strongly cautioned that not all films presented are intended for children.

Parental Ratings Guide:

While none of the films at "Films For Food" have been rated by the Motion Picture Association, we have catagorized the films we will present by the rating they may have been given. These are not actual ratings, only a guide to help Parents make an informed decision about what films to bring their children to.

Films that might receive a 'G' Rating: "Last Skate For Couples"

Films that might receive a 'PG' or 'PG-13' Rating:
"Two", "Hunting Camp", "Bogo", "Missed Cues", "Pole Positions", Kings & Queens",
"Edinboro Meets The Spider", and "Human's Lib".

Films that might receive an 'R' Rating:

"Virgin Pockets" for adult language, adult situations, crude sexual humor and depictions of drug use.

"Fist of The Vampire" for adult language, graphic violence, gore, nudity, depictions of sexuality and depictions of drug use.

"Grindhouse Massacre" for adult language, graphic violence and gore.

"Aspiring Psychopath" for adult language, graphic violence, gore, nudity, graphic depictions of sexuality and depictions of drug use.

"Swamp Zombies" for adult language, graphic violence, gore, nudity, depictions of sexuality and scenes of cannibilism.

"Bad Friend" for adult language, graphic violence and gore.

"Dead Body Man" for adult language, graphic violence, gore, nudity, depictions of sexuality, beastiality and drug use.

"Dead Body Man 2" for adult language, graphic violence, gore, nudity, depictions of sexuality, beastiality and drug use.

"Fury" for adult language, graphic violence, gore, nudity, graphic depictions of sexuality, and a scene of cannibilism.

"GMD Television" for adult language.

"Wolf At The Door" for adult language, graphic, realistic violence and adult themes.

"Chasing Darkness" for adult language, graphic violence, gore, scenes of cannibilism and brief nudity.

Films that might receive an 'NC-17' Rating:

"There You Were" for adult language, adult themes, and graphic depictions of sexuality.

"Smoke Junkies" for adult languag less

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Agree Truth Prevail! -- EMA (<3), 14:12:28 02/17/08 Sun

That The Holy One of Israel would give strength by His Rightious Right Arm to create Shalom among His emisaries in prayer;

Shama, Israel; The Holy (echad)ne of Israel, He is Echad;
B'Ruch Shem, Elohenu, The Holy One; Echad

Sar Shalom - come quickly!

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If you can’t love a god who lets anyone suffer forever -- Rodger Tutt (http://www.tentmaker.org), 05:37:53 04/22/08 Tue

If you cannot love a god who would let anyone suffer forever, you can copy and paste (if necessary) the following urls into the address bar and find out that a literally (not interpretively) translated Bible actually teaches universal salvation, not even annihilation.

THE SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD

If necessary, copy and paste the following url into the address bar.

http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/savior-of-the-world/circularity.htm

At the top and bottom of that same THE SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD page, there is the following link to fourteen other writings in the same series that are related to this same subject.

http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/savior-of-the-world/index.htm

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If you cannot love an eternal torment god -- Rodger Tutt (http://www.tentmaker.org), 15:37:08 06/28/08 Sat

If you cannot love an eternal torment god

I’m 69 years old. The idea that God lets anyone suffer forever has caused me more suffering (including a twelve year nervous breakdown 1966-78) than all the other sufferings of my life combined.

This suffering was caused by the fear produced by not being able to love a god who would let anyone suffer forever and wondering what this god would do to me for not being able to love him. Even though I was and am trusting for my salvation in what Jesus accomplished by His death and resurrection, through the power in the blood of His cross, I was, and still am unable to love a god who would let anyone suffer forever. Here are testimonies similar to mine.

http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/hells_fruit.html

http://greater-emmanuel.org/Hope4You/consequences.html

If you are like me and cannot love a god who would let anyone suffer forever, you can copy and paste (if necessary) the following urls into the address bar and find out that a literally (not interpretively) translated Bible actually teaches universal salvation, not even annihilation.

THE SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD

If necessary, copy and paste the following urls into the address bar.
http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/savior-of-the-world/circularity.htm

At the top and bottom of that same THE SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD page, there is the following link to fourteen other writings in the same series that are related to this same subject.
http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/savior-of-the-world/index.htm

Don’t kid yourself. If anyone suffers forever JESUS IS DOING IT TO THEM

http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/savior-of-the-world/circularity.htm

THE GOD THAT CALVINIST AND ARMINIAN ETERNAL TORMENTORS PROFESS TO LOVE

The eternal torment theology of the Arminian Christian relies on so-called “free will” and luck.

The god that Arminian eternal tormentors profess to love says to his fallen creatures

“Unless you are lucky enough to find out about my son during this lifetime, and even if you are that lucky, if you don’t have the good sense to cooperate with my son properly before you die, then I am going to raise you from the dead and I will sustain you alive in an inescapable state of eternal torment forever.”

The eternal torment theology of the Calvinist Christian relies on God alone, not “free will” at all. It is summed up by the word TULIP: Total depravity, Unconditional election, Limited atonement, Irresistible grace, and the Perseverance of the elect.

The god that Calvinistic eternal tormentors profess to love says to his fallen creatures

"I created most of you for the purpose of torturing you forever. However, I am going to choose a few of you undeserving ones to go to heaven where you will be happy forever." John Calvin said there will be infants a span long in hell because they were not among the elect. (A span is the distance between the tip of the thumb to the tip of the little finger.)

And then both the Arminian and Calvinistic eternal tormentors say that the feelings that they have for this god of theirs is “love.”

To read a description of eternal torment combination Calv-Arminianism see
ABSOLUTE ASSURANCE IN JESUS CHRIST – Charles Slagle
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/Absolute-Assurance-in-Jesus-Christ.html

This next url sums up the end result of all three
http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/savior-of-the-world/circularity.htm

Without God’s sustaining power everyone would cease to exist.
So if anyone were to suffer forever, our all-powerful God (Who is Love in essence, not just loving) would be fully 100% responsible for it. We would have to conclude that any definition of the manifestation of “love-in-essence” includes eternally sustaining people alive in an inescapable state of suffering. What a travesty; what a revolting definition of love it is that God, Who is love personified, would grant any creature a will so strong that they can choose themselves into an irreversible state of never ending suffering!

Thank God the Bible does not teach such an insane idea!

Here is what the God that universal transformationists love and worship with complete abandon will do. He will complete the process of salvation for the first fruits of election, (the remnant chosen by grace), after the first resurrection. Then He will complete the process of salvation for the non-elect after the great white throne judgment. For some, it will include an experience in the lake of fire.

Jesus died on the cross and rose from the dead to guarantee that any necessary "kolasis aionian" (age-during corrective chastisement) will be 100% effective in changing wrong attitudes. All acts of sin have been forgiven for everyone. Attitudes cannot be forgiven. Attitudes must change. This is what the lake of fire which is the second death will do. It will last no longer than God sees is good for everyone involved.

You can Google up good articles on this subject by typing in kolasis aionian

Also see

http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/savior-of-the-world/index.htm

For anyone who cannot love an endless-hell god ---
BIBLICAL CHRISTIAN UNIVERSALIST RESOURCES

Copy and paste the following urls into the address bar

http://www.christian-universalism.com/links.html

http://www.christianuniversalist.org

Also see

Information, and frequently asked questions in support of a correctly (literally, not interpretively) translated Bible teaching universal salvation,

http://www.tentmaker.org/bloglinks.htm

http://www.tentmaker.org/sitemap.html

http://www.tentmaker.org/ScholarsCorner.html

http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/savior-of-the-world/index.htm

(If necessary, copy and paste them into your address bar)

and they will learn that the Bible actually teaches universal salvation instead, not even annihilation.

Or, they will go to the search engine at the top of http://www.tentmaker.org and will type in a key word or phrase from any argument or scripture passage. Ten articles will come up refuting the claim that the Bible teaches eternal torment or annihilation. Then they may click to the next page and ten more articles will come up, and so on and so on for many pages.

The many entries in my guestbook that is accessed towards the bottom of my front page at http://greater-emmanuel.org/Hope4You/

and the many entries at http://www.tentmaker.org/visitorcomments.htm
show just how much this information is helping people.

Also see http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/hells_fruit.html

This was the information that enabled me to recover from a twelve year nervous breakdown 1966-78, and it gives me great joy to keep learning that it is helping more and more other people too!! I’m 69

I am also going to guide you to the testimony of a man whose experience was almost identical to mine. Even the thought processes that took him into, through, and out of his breakdown are the same as mine. His name is Charles Slagle.
He answers the question, "Which view of salvation is true?"

http://www.tentmaker.org/books/Absolute-Assurance-in-Jesus-Christ.html

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challenging to all magicians -- kaleem (na), 18:04:23 07/02/08 Wed

My name is muhammad kaleem ullah khan. My date of birth is 28/2/1946. I am challenging all the magician in this world. is there any one who can break my magic I am a black magician no one can beat me in this world and no one can break my magic if some one cast spell to me i will reverse his spell to him I am challenging all magicians cast spell to me and my sons i have there sons mateen , mubeen ,moiz and her mother name is salma if some one cast spell to my son I will reverse his spell to him i am challenging to all magician to beat me

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