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Date Posted: - Wednesday - 04/14/10 - 7:40pm
Author: LARRY GROMACKI
Subject: Looking for a replacement prop

Looking for a three blade prop. The one that was sold to me is a 12/7 and can not be reworked. this prop will not let my 4107 idle and produces black smoke. It would proably work well with a 4108? Will swap for a 12/6 or purchase.

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Replies:

[> Prop -- Doug Wilson, - Wednesday - 04/14/10 - 10:19pm

Might look at Minney's Yacht Surplus in Newport Beach, there is a website with a list of props they have.
Why a 3 blade? I know they have a bunch of two blade 12/7 left hand sailors, with 1" bore, but can be made to 1 1/8. About $65.
I have a 12/7 on my boat, won't go to wind well, would be better with a 3 blade, but I don't want to push the tranny. But it's what I have, and after reworking the $65 prop, I have a new spare for about $125.


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[> won't let your engine idle? -- Randall, - Thursday - 04/15/10 - 1:40am

"Won't let the engine idle; produces black smoke." Are those one in the same?

Is the former really a prop issue? Do you mean that the prop turns slowly when you are in idle mode? (Mine does. So does that of the '68 Pearson that docks next to me. In fact, the Pearson could probably make 2 knots in a calm while in neutral. It's a tranny issue not to do with the prop. Tranny is wearing out. Not super serious far as I know.)

The latter can be if the prop is too big for the tranny. I had a 13x8 three blade on Murre for a while. No black smoke, per se, but it lugged my 1/1 ratio tranny; I couldn't get the revs up to appropriate levels.

Went back to a 12x6 three blade. All's well.

RR


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[> [> prop sizing -- mike keller, - Monday - 09/27/10 - 11:27pm

Randall,

I was courious how the three blade prop is working for you and do you have a shaft clutch to stop it from turning under way? I am right now looking for a new prop and toying with the idea of a 3 blade and size for my m 31 isabella and would like to hear how you like it or not verse a two blade version

mike


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[> [> [> Works great! -- Randall, - Wednesday - 09/29/10 - 12:12pm

Don't think about it much--it's the proper prop size and pitch for my engine/tranny.

I never have used a two blade on Murre, so can't help you there. I think there's too much drag from the full keel for a two blade to be effective enough to out-way the drag of one more blade.

And I've never installed a prop clutch. Too many other things to worry about! :)

RR


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[> [> [> [> Re; prop sizing -- Mike Keller, - Friday - 10/ 1/10 - 12:02am

Thanks for the reply. Do you have the Perkins engine with the one to one bourge warner transmission? If so, what size are you using?

I am really curious about the free wheeling of the shaft...is it very noticeable? I'm doing a bit of a refit of my boat in Napa Valley Marina and want to get the prop issue resolved in the short amount of time I've got the boat out of the water.

I really appreciate your input and information on what works for you. Take care,

Mike


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[> [> [> [> [> unclear -- Randall, - Friday - 10/ 1/10 - 12:22am

Don't understand the question. what size what am I using? my transmission is a 1:1. Not sure if it's borg warner.

i'm currently on the hard at the san rafael yacht harbor fitting out for a cruise. i'f you'd like to stop by, feel free.


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[> [> [> [> [> Freewheeling is noticeable but not an issue -- Paul - 1971 mariner 31 - #106, - Friday - 10/ 1/10 - 1:02pm

on my Mariner 31. I have the Perkins 4-107 and a 3-bladed prop... not sure what pitch, but I am pretty sure it is higher than Randall's. My Guess is that it is a 13x8 three-blade.

I get hull speed at 1500rpm with a 1:1 Borg Warner Velvet Drive transmission. At max "throttle" speed my engine reaches "only" 2100 rpms but I believe the high pressure fuel pump/governor has been restricted somehow, because the engine "levels off" rather than starts lugging while running (engeged) at that rpm - no smoke at all (no white, no black) - the engine just hums along. Disengaged, the engine tops out around 3000 rpm.

While sailing, the prop freewheels - regardless of whether the tranny is in gear or not. Note that the Velvet Drive is a hydraulic transmission, meaning that, unless the engine is running, there is no hydraulic pressure to move, engage or lock the clutch plates and the transmission basically freespools at speeds of no concern or even remotely harmful to its internals.

I do notice that a fouled prop will not spin as easily but after a fresh bottom scrub it spins quite quickly ans easily and makes a gentle "rushing" sound while moving at 4 or more kts under sail.

A lower pitched, three bladed prop - I believe Randall sayd his is 13x6 - would also freewheel, but probably not as quick (boat speed under sail) and not as fast (rpm).

The jury is still out (in my opinion) on what is "correct": A prop that will "allow" the engine to reach (and run at) design output rpm (note I did not say design output HP) or to have a prop installed that places the engine speed at "proper" rpm for the hp required to push at that rpm while at hull (or cruising) speed...

After some calculating, I have established that my Perkins puts out approximately 21 HP at 1500 to 1700 rpm, which I also established as being the HP required to push the boat at hull (+). So running at 1500, the air/fuel ratio is balanced and the engine runs exactly on it's power curve.

For it to put out 21hp at 3500 rpm, it would be sucking as much air as it would for max hp rating (a diesel is not throttled and is basically an air pump with flow direct proportionate to rpm) but with the fuel intake cut way back - meaning there would be too much air flowing through - the unit runs cool and from idle to full speed never really "see" the resistance that would put it anywhere near on its power curve.

I guess this is a very long way of expressing my opinion, which is that I believe my prop is properly sized for my boat/power plant combination and I would not want to exchange it with a lower pitch one. I am over engined, rather than over propped.

I am perfectly fine with the freewheeling and the effect on my sailing experience is minimal.

Hope this helps...


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[> My two cents about two blades -- Jared Kibele, - Monday - 10/ 4/10 - 3:40pm

Architeuthis has a two blade prop. I'm not sure what the pitch is. She'll do a little over 5 knots at 1500 rpm and I think she hits hull speed somewhere around 2000 rpm. She saw 2200 rpm during the sea trial before I bought her and she might have been able to spin faster. I suppose we might be under propped but it's never bothered me. Typically, if we have to motor, we run at about 5 knots and 1300-1400 rpm and we burn approximately a half gallon of fuel per hour. The two blade prop does not spin when we're sailing and, if I feel like it, I can line the thing up so that it's lined up vertically behind the keel for less drag.


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[> Prop Size -- Mike Anthony, - Saturday - 10/ 9/10 - 10:34am

We have a Westerbeke 65 HP with a hurth 250 transmission. We put an 18x15 3 bladed sailor man prop. We get hull speed at 1800 RPM, max for the engine is 2600. I actually would have gone with a 21x18 if my shaft would have been bigger. She sails just fine for us with the 3 blades and we love the extra power going out inlets and banging into the wind...


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