2012 Delta Ditch Run -- MOA

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Date Posted: - Thursday - 06/14/12 - 1:37pm
Author: Bill Miller (Happy)
Subject: 2012 Delta Ditch Run

Hi All,
I entered Natsukaze M-31#73 in the 2012 Delta Ditch Run from Richmond YC to Stockton SC. What a blast it was. 67 miles in 9.5 hrs. Do the math and you'll get an idea of the wind stength. I was assigned a 189 PHRF which seems quite low but we finished 6th in the 10 boat crusing class. Our old Mariners are still competitive with the newer boats especially when the winds howling!

Fair Winds, Bill Miller

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Replies:

[> Well...we all knew that Mariners are speed demons -- Bill Kranidis (:-)), - Friday - 06/15/12 - 8:48am

PHRF of 189 ??????

They stole the win from you Bill :-)

PHRF in the mid 220's is more like it, no ?

Wind was what...20-25 knots ???

Good on you, man.

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[> [> PHRF for Mariner 31 -- Bill Miller, - Monday - 06/18/12 - 12:11pm

I,ve applied to SF Bay YRA for a PHRF certificate. I'll post it when it comes in. I think 210 plus would be more in the ball park. Yes the winds were steady 25+ with voilent gusts causing one snapped mast, other rig damage and some crew thrown in the water. We reefed the main from Pittsburg to False River. Old Natsukaze was flying with rail down and "a bone in her teeth" We rounded up a couple of times through Suisun but otherwise she tracked really well and came through with no damage. I' love to see more Mariners enter this awesome race next year. Glad to see you back Bill!

Bill Miller

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[> [> [> Would be nice to know the PHRF rating of our vessels... -- Paul M31 #106 NJ, - Monday - 06/18/12 - 1:24pm

I don't see myself "racing" per se, but it would be nice to be able to pick up a long distance challenge, with an official PHRF rating.

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[> [> [> Delta Doo Dah -- Bruce (m31 #95) Gitana Vela, - Wednesday - 06/20/12 - 3:30pm

Hi Bill,
Your account of the Ditch Run was a good read - thanks for that. And thanks for the invitation to race the next one. Remember when we met during last year's Delta Doo Dah cruise rally on the San Joaquin river near Stockton? Anyway, I will send you email with contact info. so that we can remain in touch. Best regards - and well see you in the ditches...

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[> SF Bay Mariners -- Tom Kucera, Ryokosha, M32#1, - Saturday - 06/30/12 - 12:52pm

Good to hear that Mariners are doing themselves proud in the Bay Area. Ryokosha is nearing the end of her major rehab (well into the second year), and with any luck will get away from the dock in Sausalito by the time the winds subside later this summer or fall. Hope to see you on the water.

By the way, are you rigged with a main staysail, and did you use it on the way upriver? If so, do you have running backstays, and, if you do, any wisdom regarding them (components, use, etc.)? My 32 has a main staysail and running backstays, and I'm trying to figure out what to do with them.

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[> [> Staysail, running back stays -- Bill Miller, - Monday - 07/ 2/12 - 10:43am

Hi Tom,

I just received my PHRF cert. They assigned a 192 rating
to my Mariner 31. Good luck on your rebuild and hope
you get on the water soon. No, I don't have a staysail but
that would be great in lighter winds. I have rigged my own
running back stays and used them all the way from Richmond to Stockton in the Ditch Run. I really like the added mizzen support when it's really blowing. Mine are attached to the mizzen lower stay plate. I have rigged an
inner forestay and fly a self tacking storm/staysail for tacking to weather in the narrow river sailing in the Delta.

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[> [> [> Running backstays and staysails -- Tom Kucera, Ryokosha, M32#1, - Monday - 07/ 9/12 - 7:56pm

Bill,

Thanks for the reply; perhaps you could help with some lingering confusion. You say you don't have a staysail but do have an inner forestay and fly a sail from it. You also mention the running backstays you have and the additional mizzen support they provide. If you fly a sail from the inner forestay, why have running backstays on the mizzen and not the main? I admit to being slow on the uptake; what am I missing? Thanks. Any photos of the boat in action?

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[> [> [> [> running backstays -- Bill Miller M31#73, - Tuesday - 07/10/12 - 2:44pm

Hi Tom,
Maybe we are confusing the use of a staysail flown between the mizzen and main mast, as opposed to my storm/staysail flown between the jib and main mast. The main masts on our Mariners are well supported by the split back stay and the triatic from the main to mizzen. The weak point, in my opinion, is the lack of more back support on the mizzen in a blow of 25kts. or more. I seem to get caught with everything flying when the wind pipes up in those narrow slots in the Delta. I like the added security of my running backs until I can get reefed down. I didn't have any running backs so I just ran 3/8" lines from the mizzen, around blocks on the stern and then to cam cleats.
I bet Randall Reeves could give us great advice on running backs! Check out photo on 2012 Delta Ditch Run h20shots.com (page 87)
Bill

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[> [> [> [> [> Running backstays and staysails -- Tom Kucera, - Wednesday - 07/11/12 - 9:17pm

Bill,

Yeah, it's a terminological confusion. I call a staysail any sail flying off a stay (except the jib, which does run off the forestay...). I think I learned, maybe hanging around with schooner folks, that a main staysail runs off a stay attached to the mainmast, a foremast staysail runs off the forward mast (on a schooner), a mizzen staysail runs off a stay attached to the mizzen, etc. (If I remember right, there is also an issue with how far aft of the forestay the next stay goes, to differentiate an inner forestay from a cutter rig. And there's the solent stay...) So, it sounds to me that, given that terminology, you run a mizzen staysail, and have running backstays to your mizzen. Whew. I think that's clear in my mind. I have what is probably a cutter rig on my 32 (sometimes referred to as a clutter-ketch), with running backstays on the mainmast attached at about the spreaders. It also has a triatic and split backstays. I've never flown a cutter (or main staysail or inner foresail...), but life is for learning.

Nice pic - looking good.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> Running Backstays -- Bill Miller M31#73, - Thursday - 07/12/12 - 4:26pm

Tom,
To clarify,I don't have a staysail flown between the two masts. I would like to try that if I had enough crew to help with tacking. What I do have is a self tacking sail flown between the main mast and the jib. Some refer to this as a "cutter". I have running back stays on the mizzen simply to help support (both) masts via the triatic. Refer to M32#49 "Blues Traveler". I hope this better describes my sail plan. I really enjoy experimenting and my latest is a triangular "fisherman". But that's anther story... Bill

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[> [> [> [> [> [> Running backstays and staysails -- Tom Kucera, Ryokosha, M32#1, - Thursday - 07/12/12 - 7:49pm

Gotcha. Good luck with that "fisherman." Maybe post some photos when the bugs are gone. I hope I get to see it out on the water, in action.

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[> [> [> Inner for storm jib -- Rob Brown, - Friday - 05/23/14 - 1:47pm

Hi!

I just got myself a Mariner 31 a bit ago and am working on some upgrades for an off shore cruise! How do you rig your inner storm jib? Where do you attach the chainplate onto the mast and what chain plate do you use? Do you need to reinforce it with running backs?

Thanks for all the help in advance!

Rob

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[> [> [> [> Storm Jib -- Bill Miller, - Tuesday - 05/27/14 - 5:28pm

Rob,

I have added an additional inner fore stay between the main mast and main fore stay. I run a small heavy storm jib of only 80 sq. ft. and it has a self tacking track just ahead of the main mast. I don't feel running backs are necessary for this sail since I reef down when it's blowing hard enough to run the storm jib. I can give measurements if you need more info. Bill

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[> [> [> [> [> Storm Jib -- Mike N, - Friday - 06/13/14 - 10:19am

I have a M32 and I want to also install an inner storm jib and you mentioned you have dimensions. Would you also please forward them to me? I greatly appreciate it and Thank You in advance!
Mike

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[> [> [> [> [> [> this guys know best -- Ardi, - Saturday - 06/14/14 - 10:38pm

sails@fareastsails.com
I ordered sails from this guy and was the best deal. Send them an e-mail for what you need and they will get it done for you. You don't need a inner stay for the storm jib, you can use a sleeve that goes around the jib without the need of changing sails.

Ardi

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[> [> [> [> [> [> Storm Jib -- Bill M, - Tuesday - 07/ 1/14 - 11:41am

As Ardi mentioned, you can use a sleeved storm jib if you have a roller furled jib and not a hanked on type. My inner stay is detachable and is lashed to a main lower shroud when not in use. My sprit and bow pulpit is my own design since my M31 had none when I bought her. My dimensions are probably different than yours. I do like the idea of a inner forestay. It's nice to have added Main mast support in my opinion. Set up your inner so that it runs parallel with the forestay. Looks better that way. Good luck with your project.

Bill Miller M-31 Natsukaze

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