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Date Posted: 16:01:54 03/03/03 Mon
Author: Faithsguy
Subject: Raven (help needed)
Lets go over some of the ideas that are floating around about how Raven was sired, what she did before, her name before etc...
~First we need her Previous name: (pick a letter)
(a) It has always been Raven.
(b) we need to find a previous name.
(c) We are never told
~The Year she was sired:
(a) Early 1800's
(b) Late 1800's
(c) Early 1900's
(d)Earlier than the 1800's like around the first slayer days.
~Who sired her?
(a)The Master
(b)Dracula
(c)her watcher who was vamped by another vampire.
(d)Drusilla
(e)Darla or Angel or Spike
Lets try to get these answers so at least we know a little about her past so that writers can start to write some more about her.
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Some ideas -- Linda_Delurked, 17:45:29 03/03/03 Mon
I like the idea of her being sired by one of the fanged four, but to be honest if any of them had sired a slayer, I'm fairly certain they would have mentioned it. We know that Spike has killed two slayers, and both of them are accounted for. Unless Raven is either Nikki or the slayer from the Boxer rebellion.
If Angelus had killed a slayer, that would have come up in the past too. And when Drusilla killed Kendra, Spike said "Dru bagged a slayer? She didn't tell me! Good for her!" or something to that effect. So the only real possibility is Darla. And it would have to be before Angel met her. I think the Master would be more likely, but I'm sure it would have been mentioned.
If its any help, I've half written a fic about a vamped slayer. In my story the slayer was a particularly beautiful young girl who was raised by the council. She endured the same test Buffy went through on her 18th birthday in 'Helpless' and while she survived, her face was scarred and she suffered nightmares for the rest of her life. Which was less than a year. She never spoke to her watcher or any of the council again. Even though she still lived with them she refused to acknowledge anything they said. She'd just wander the council chambers like a ghost during the day and then go out and hunt at night.
Over time she began spending more and more time with a charismatic vampire called Ruin. One night she was horrifically injured during a fight, and as she lay dying Ruin convinced her to let him "save" her. So she was vamped.
She arrived at the council headquaters and knocked. Her watcher answered the door and the slayer asked if she could come in. Her watcher, thinking that she had been forgiven, warmly welcomed her and threw her arms around the slayer. Then the vamped slayer gutted her, and taunted her for a bit saying that she would go down as the worst watcher in history, the watcher who's slayer destroyed the council. Then the slayer went on a cheerful romp through the chambers, murdering any watchers she found and burning books while her watcher lay dying.
Feel free to rob as much of this as you want to. In my fic the fact that a slayer was sired was hidden by the council, who attributed the destruction of their HQ to bombing in London during WWII. (My slayer lived in the 1930s) The vamped slayer story was covered up. We could use this as an excuse as to why no one has ever heard of her before. But we need an explanation as to why she hasn't been active.
We could say that the council elders kept covering up Raven's existance, and always had a team who's soul purpose was to hunt her down. With the end of the council Raven would be freed to go wherever and do whatever she wanted. We could even have a soul survivor of that team who could let Buffy know what she's up again.
Phew! That's a lot! Anyway, I'm not sure if all of this would work. I'm just throwing ideas out there. All you writers just rob any bits you think are good! I'll think of something else for my fic ;)
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That's great! -- Kashmanik, 23:56:21 03/03/03 Mon
Love that idea - plenty of scope for gruesome flashbacks.
One thing though, having had a character called Rack on the show, shouldn't we rename Ruin if we're going to use him? And what if it was Raven who asked to be vamped, against the wishes of her vampire friend?
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Thanks Linda! I think we should have her sired by -- Faithsguy, 18:11:19 03/03/03 Mon
the master honestly, I cant write that all in my script though, since I am introducing her, I cant say "Hi I'm raven, I was vamped by the master in the year 1867, living in the streets of new york until one day I was summmoned to come kill you all by Amy the rat so I can raise the four horsemen and bring about Proserpexa who will burn the world into a cinder." YOu see? I think we need to spread this out...
Will anyone be willing to write a few scenes in their episode like maybe eppie 7 or 8, talking about how Raven was sired, maybe a few flash backs?
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I think she should be the slayer spike killed -- Neil, 18:47:54 03/03/03 Mon
the chinese one from the boxer rebellion.
May be Drussilla could have sired her after Spike killed her?
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Oh, idea. -- Kashmanik, 00:06:54 03/04/03 Tue
What if she was sired centuries ago by Aurelius - and moments after she rose as a vampire, she still retained enough Slayer "essence" to stake him, but then descended completely into vamp-hood? Would explain the backstory of Aurelius, and perhaps the Master could even make a cameo? He could be Aurelius' lackey, and when he sees Raven stake him, the Master flees in terror. Would really set up Raven as a villain if even the Master was scared of her.
This doesn't mean Aurelius or the Master would be in the season, but just in a few flashbacks.
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No, no no....I dont think -- Faithsguy, 00:10:56 03/04/03 Tue
we should use Aurilieous at all, its too many baddies, even though we wouldnt see them. Also we already have Ravens look so it can be the Boxer Rebellion slayer.
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But..... (spoiler for S7) -- Kashmanik, 00:14:53 03/04/03 Tue
We've already got Nikki playing a role in S7, do we really want Xin Rong in S8? Tieing Spike into another BB is a mistake IMO. Give some other characters a chance to shine, such as Anya, Xander, Dawn, Faith. IMO Spike has had his share of story time over the last few seasons.
If my idea isn't popular, that's fine. But I stand by my opinion that using Xin Rong, the Boxer Rebellion Slayer, is a mistake.
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I agree with you Kashy -- Faithsguy, 00:24:08 03/04/03 Tue
I really dont fancy the idea of having that other slayer come back, besides we already have Ravens look and its not gonna work if all of a sudden and oriental slayer is white. lol
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Hmm, we could blend an old idea of mine with this..... -- Kashmanik, 00:31:18 03/04/03 Tue
Kinda mixing in Linda's here too... and a few others...
What if a Slayer was vamped centuries, maybe even thousands of years ago. The Council were attacked, and many were wiped out by her, but the survivors trapped her in a magical prison. She's been in there for years, the Council's biggest secret, but with no Watchers around to guard the seal, it's been left open to attack. And that could be how Amy summons Raven - she goes to England and destroys the barrier.
We could have one scene in each ep, over the course of two or three eps, in which we see Amy in England performing a ritual over this magical seal, and over the eps we are gradually able to see what is inside - a female vampire. But the audience wouldn't know it's a Slayer, yet. This would also explain why, if she's so old, she hasn't developed cloven hooves - she's been frozen.
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We couldnt use the Amy idea just because -- Faithsguy, 00:47:34 03/04/03 Tue
I am introducing Amy in my episode, she is at the end of my ep, you see her face under the robe and then the camera goes to grrr arrrgh....
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Ah, ok then. But the rest of it gets my vote. I think that could work. -- Kashmanik, 00:50:09 03/04/03 Tue
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Re: -- Sgt. Rock, 01:14:58 03/04/03 Tue
I don't think it should always have been Raven, she should have changed it later. Whether we reveal this or not can be at the discression of the writer.
Late 1800/Early 1900's. I like the idea of having a reasonably modern vamp.
Vamped by her watcher, Not one of the big 4, and especially not by Spike. Tho I'm pretty sure all of them have killed slayers before now, I think it makes sense to just leave them out of it.
Any ideas about her personality yet? I've been writing scenes for my ep, but I can't make her funny/quirky, only to find she's completely ruthless and focused in previous episodes, or visa-versa.
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OH OH OH, Personality, I have it right here -- Faithsguy, 01:18:47 03/04/03 Tue
Raven is a hip-gloryish acting villain. She is very quirky and up to date on everything, including the scoobies. She was well informed of them. She reminds me almost of mix between Glory and Dark Willow. You will see how her personality works in my eppie, there are a few good scenes making good use of it.
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Re: -- Mark, 02:08:09 03/04/03 Tue
Sounds cool. That will be a nice contrast to the cold nature of Proserpexa later in the season. lol Raven can fill the snarky quotient for this season's villain.
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Re: -- Sgt. Rock, 02:15:40 03/04/03 Tue
Do we know where she's living?
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here -- That one guy, 05:19:43 03/04/03 Tue
Don't worry My script has that in it,
I have a monster of the week and he going to go back and talk about raven and how she was sired and all. Sorry was a away a few days but here what I got down about her past sofar:
Sired in early 1000 (Come one make it before written records that way the coucil will have little or no knowledge of it) plus it makes it easier for them to believe that she sired the Master line, who did the Fab Four. The reason why the vamps transfor I put was because they were feeded off of fresh people, once they got so big and bad they just have there servants kill people and eat them.
Previous name still thinking of a good one...
and The person who sired her was her watcher, who got turned right before she was with the whole slayer thing. She couldn't kill her but the watcher sired her.
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Re: -- Sgt. Rock, 18:55:47 03/04/03 Tue
If we have her that old, then surely we would need her to look worse than the master (ie, she couldn't revert to human form) and I thought it was decided that she wasn't the origin of the master's line?
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In my episode I have her living -- Faithsguy, 13:16:21 03/04/03 Tue
at the old "caretakers" house at the cemetary. But the backstory sounds really cool ThatOneGuy
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what episode is Raven being introduced? -- BunnyPhobia, 15:39:12 03/04/03 Tue
My episode summary is 'Restless in a Bank' (well, it actually has a plot and is less surreal) so I can foreshadow to my heart's content. So if we want flashes of Raven, hints and images and graffiti that show Amy, Prospexa in a cryptic way, let me know. I'm going actually start writing my episode soon :)
~BP
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Raven is introduced in Eppy four -- Faithsguy, 16:16:24 03/04/03 Tue
I dont want anyone to make any Amy refrences at all in eps 1-3 because my episode is a "flashback" to restless with some refrences to amy in it who will be revealed at the end of my episode.
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Restless...in a bank? -- Linda_Delurked, 17:40:53 03/05/03 Wed
That sounds scarily brilliant!
I could be wrong, but I think The Master was supposed to have been sired around the 1400's. I don't think it was ever said on the show, just on the WB website, or some other place that had the backstory. Does anyone know this for sure? Will we have The Master as Raven's sire or The Master's sire?
If Raven has lived longer than The Master then she should have lost some of her human charictaristics too. Although since she's a vamped slayer than may not happen.
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Using my Order of Aurelius knowledge... -- JSlayerUK, 17:55:32 03/05/03 Wed
The latest that The Master was sired in would be 1200. By the time he had sired Darla in 1609, he was already batnosed. And Darla is the oldest vampire we've seen with known dates not to be batnosed, and she was already 400. So imagine that you lose the curse of human features at 500 then, maybe The Master was sired around the 1100s... I'm imagining even earlier than that though, because he was bloody ugly.
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I think that the vamped slayer should -- Faithsguy, 20:02:07 03/05/03 Wed
be on a few hundred years old, being older than the master is ridiculous, maybe the master could have sired the slayer when Darla left with Angel in the 1800's?
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Heres the way I see it -- That one guy, 01:01:46 03/06/03 Thu
Yes but making her older, doesn't nessarcilly mean she has to be deform. I mean I like the idea of her older then written records that makes it very unlikely the COW would have known about her. I could also handle why she not deform
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lets do that then! -- Faithsguy, 02:55:53 03/06/03 Thu
If you can write it so that its not corny, go for it
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Make sure that there's a reason she wasn't around before though -- Linda_Delurked, 16:32:14 03/06/03 Thu
If she's older than the council, that's a great way to explain why they didn't know about her. But if Raven is so powerful, she could have come for Buffy at any time. We need a reason as to why she didn't go for the longest-lived slayer in centuries. That's why I went for the explanation that the council were embarressed by her presence and tried to hunt her down, with only a handful of them knowing about her. Plus it's a very council-ish thing to do.
I think the 1000 year old story works well. We just need to think up of all the possible holes so we can plug them up ahead of time.
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I still think my idea could work for this. -- Kashmanik, 16:42:30 03/06/03 Thu
The Council have had her magically sealed in the cellars of their HQ for years, as a closely guarded secret. Someone could either discover this and release her, or the magic barrier itself wears down because there are no Watchers around to keep "refreshing" it.
Would also explain why she hasn't "mutated" like the Master and Kakistos. Ooh, on a side not, maybe Kakistos could have sired her?
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I like that one. And what if... -- Linda_Delurked, 19:50:37 03/06/03 Thu
She starts to mutate as the series progresses? She starts to become more animal like, because she is so old and has been released from her prison. The longer she's free, the more powerful she becomes, and the uglier and nastier she gets.
My vamped slayer was pretty vain, and despised her scarred face and the council for causing her injuries. If Raven is vain and obsessed with her looks, then finding herself becoming mutated would have a big impact on her.
Mind you, if she's that old then language is going to be an issue. Maybe Raven's English should be fairly broken for at least a good part of the show. She would be speaking a whole different language, and if she's been magically imprisoned she hasn't had a chance to learn modern English yet.
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Linda i dont think we should do the "language" thing -- Faithsguy, 22:54:48 03/06/03 Thu
maybe we can explain the language deal by having the "robed figures" magically give her a vocabulary or something, I dont think having a warped language would do much help, plust my episode has some quirky lines from her and having it chopped english would suck for me...
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Language issue -- That one Guy, 22:58:56 03/06/03 Thu
No with the languane think about it if you were around all those years you could learn any language and speak it fluently I mean it takes what 1 to 2 years to speak english depeneding upon the person. So why not just say she knows many languages?
I think it would be alot easier though if the COW didn't know about her as the slayer and thought she was just a regular vampire. the way I'd explain the whole not morphing thing would be something to the effect, That everytime a vamp feeds from human that alive he takes some essensent or soul the reasonw why Kakitos and Master didn't take it was because they fed off of dead ones.
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Kashy I have an idea -- Faithsguy, 16:50:11 03/06/03 Thu
In eppie One Neil makes a slight refrence in the beginning to Raven, the opening scene with her biting someone. We dont know who it is, or what she is, in episode three, Sam and I discussed having the "robbed figures" (later it will be discovered they are the followers of Proserpexa) chanting an incantation. Why dont we say that the "robbed figures" released the slayer, and summoned her to the Hellmouth?
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Meant to say I like this idea too! -- Linda_Delurked, 19:52:13 03/06/03 Thu
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