Author:
sarahchia
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Date Posted: 13:33:34 04/30/03 Wed
Sigh. Every time I start to read "Godel, Escher, Bach", I move, and never finish it.
Would somebody send me a copy of that?
But this whole argument amused me, because I totally agree with you, Sam. Mathematics is a system, and all too often I've seen it treated like it's not a model, but some Holy Bible Truth of How The Universe Works. I was waiting for your punchline as soon as I saw the phrase "the whole of reality is constrained by a definitive ruleset". I thought, oh, one of THESE arguments. Sigh.
Although I don't have the math that I'd like, I certainly feel that I have a pretty concrete understanding of the difference between my ability to create a useful model of the world around me, and my utter lack of ability to say that the Universe *IS* a certain way or another.
This, of course, does not mean that we have to throw up our hands and say, "Well, what's the fucking point! I don't know anything!" Clearly, we can make discoveries that allow us to manipulate the world around us (and no, sam, I am not going to define 'world', 'around', or 'us'--yes, I should, but I'm being lazy here) to a remarkable degree. Just as Newtonian physics are demonstrably "incorrect", yet it's very useful to use the mathematics behind them for simple ballistic problems, just because something isn't Truth doesn't mean it's not Useful. Here, of course, I'm speaking about mathematics, but also a lot of the techniques used by shamans, physicians, and artists since we've become aware of the way our brains can manipulate stuff.
However, I do see a disturbing trend by many mathematics buffs to act like their framework--which is utterly useful, beautiful, complex and remarkable--is actually something which Underpins the Structure of The Universe. Bullshit. All it proves is that a simian group of carbon-based lifeforms have managed to come up with some really neat ideas that serve them very well. We can certainly describe the system in which we seem to be living, but I also think that proper intellectual rigour requires us to remember that it could all be absolute bunk.
The above rant has all sorts of holes in it and wasn't particularly well thought out, so of course you may rip it to shreds in your normal cheerful bull-in-a-china shop manner, Sam my dear.
And Carolyn--She played "Not the Red Baron"? I'm jealous. That's one of my favorite songs. When I got my heart ripped out by this one guy, I listened to that song _all the time_ because it reminded me there is another side to the story, and that guys get their hearts broken all the time, too. It helped, in an odd way.
That, and I read that really creepy book _Permanent Midnight_ about the guy who was a writer for the tv show "Alf" and a total fucking junky. It is the darkest, most depressing book, but for whatever reason, it helped. That and "Not the Red Baron". I have no idea why reading about a junky in LA and listening to a song about a plane crash helped me get over heartbreak, but then again, we're not dealing with logic here.
I think it's awesome that that woman brought her kid. What an amazing lullabye that would be, a hella buncha Tori. And of course the kid was quiet. I mean, if your mom was cool enough to take you to a Tori show, I bet that *you'd* be a mellow infant, too. Either that, or she dosed the kid with a bunch of chamomile tea before they left. Chamomile tea is often an effective 'off' switch for infants.
I fully plan on being the cool mom who takes her baby to a tori show.
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