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Date Posted: Saturday, July 07, 03:00:42pm
Author: AS
Author Host/IP: d99-199-122-58.bchsia.telus.net / 99.199.122.58
Subject: Firefly should never be touched again, not after Wash's death.
In reply to: Lij 's message, "Whedon speaks out about Firefly..." on Friday, July 06, 09:11:25pm

I'm so happy for Joss, I just wish the Browncoats would admit to themselves that some things should never be revisited!!

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[> I see your point, AS. -- dee, Saturday, July 07, 08:05:15pm (248.38.ultimate-int.uia.net/66.146.38.248)

But the Browncoats aren't gonna let it go anytime soon.
They will hang onto the hopes of a Firefly revival
til Nathan Fillion tells them to cut it out.
...And that's not gonna happen, according to his twitter
feed and web interviews. LOL!
There's going to be a "10th Anniversary of Firefly" panel with Nathan Fillion and all the cast at Comic Con San Diego this month.
Expect mayhem.


I'm not a fan of the pseudo-season 8 Buffy and beyond
(comics) and that was mostly with Joss' input.
He's fantastic in so many ways and I admire him...
yet I cannot stand how he appears to get such a kick
out of stirring things up (with his characters, plot, story arc) just to stir them up.
Especially if the characters have been around a while.
Beware stability in the Jossverse.
No good will come from that.
Bugs the sh*t out of me.


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[> [> He hates happy couples or even families that seem kind of normal. I've always wondered about that side of his personality. -- AS, Sunday, July 08, 09:41:55pm (d99-199-122-58.bchsia.telus.net/99.199.122.58)

That's one of the reasons I never started watching Dollhouse-it was clear from the start that it was only going to be about some really dysfunctional individuals. And that doesn't appeal much anymore, at least to me.

Not that I want everything to be sweet and perfect but it would be nice once and a while to have a show where people are not constantly at each other's throats or whining about their issues.

I still stand by leaving Firefly as is. I understand why people have such nostalgia about it but I would point you to Futurama, which did have a second try and while still alive, lacks the heart and clever writing it used to have. I don't think Joss would be able to revisit the Firefly universe and do it justice anymore, he's got too much on his plate now to give it the attention it deserved. The fans got 'Serenity', which was an unexpected bonus but I'd rather see it stay as it was then come back in a half assed way.


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[> [> [> I don't think he hates happy couples or normal family -- Chani, Monday, July 09, 05:30:02am (87-231-7-227.rev.numericable.fr/87.231.7.227)

but that, as an artist, he's very influenced by the European cultural tradition that praises tragedy since the ancient Greeks (and Shakespeare was a go-between).

Personally, I don't mind it at all, but I love tragedy as well.


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[> [> [> [> Death became Joss' crutch after a while. -- AS, Monday, July 09, 10:53:34am (d99-199-122-58.bchsia.telus.net/99.199.122.58)

Buffy's first death? Genius. Joyce's death? Beautifully done.

But after a while, it became clear that when Joss didn't want to think of something more creative or spend more time on a character, that character was pretty much doomed. Fred? Cordy?
Riley and Oz were allowed to walk away because he could think of potential when bringing them back...


He killed off Anya and Xander's wedding because a true couple could never survive in the Buffyverse.If you weren't single, divorced or in the middle of a bitter battle with your ex, you didn't belong.

His last twist was killing off Wash even though he'd already offed Preacher, just to twist the knife a little bit deeper.

Which is why when Agent Coulson died in the Avengers, it was no surprise to me. Joss is predictable that way, and even if Marvel has a reason for the death outside of this movie, I have to wonder if Joss wasn't hoping to off at least Coulson or Maria(sp?)in the course of the movie because THAT'S WHAT HE DOES.

I like most of Joss' work but looking at the bigger picture, the man went to the well once too often for me. Sorry.


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[> [> [> [> [> But many deaths make sense -- Chani, Monday, July 09, 12:00:58pm (87-231-7-227.rev.numericable.fr/87.231.7.227)

in violent 'verses where the characters lead such dangerous lives.

Those guys kept flirting with death. Having characters in Buffy, Angel or Firefly, even major ones, not dying would have been nonsense.

As Zoe said herself in Serenity, a hero is "someone who gets others killed"...that's what both Buffy and Angel did.

And Joss actually killed off less characters than other show runners did in other great shows like The Wire or Deadwood or OZ...

Now if he had written shows about nice families in a safe suburb, whose jobs have nothing to do with fighting demons or police or drug business or old west violence, and he kept killing off characters with various diseases, murders or accidents, that would be different.


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[> [> [> [> [> Re: Death became Joss' crutch after a while. -- dee, Monday, July 09, 01:09:17pm (248.38.ultimate-int.uia.net/66.146.38.248)

I actually found Fred's character to be annoying and whiny until she turned into Illyria.
I felt more for Wesley because he really loved her but
I wasn't sad to see Fred go.

Although, technically, I think Illyria was a male entity?
I forget, now.
Need to watch those episodes again.


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