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Date Posted: 17:47:29 02/13/08 Wed
Author: coyotyl
Subject: old dawgs, old tricks ...

... latest hd & iowa meltdown thread reads in reverse ...


Topic Review (Newest First)

Today 06:54 PM
limaguy Amen my brothers....

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I agree with every word of it.
Today 06:28 PM
TucsonBrown Amen, DG--

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I hate to see any argument turn personal.

Too little time, too little love.

Dawgman, evidently you can't "edit" the title--so, sorry for the "DG" instead of "DM"--consider it a senior moment.



GO BROWNS
Today 06:23 PM
Dawgman What the Hell!

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What in the wide, wide, wide world of sports are you guys up to?

Since when do Browns fans turn on each other over dis-agreements in how the team is doing or who wrote what article and when? I don't get it. Call me stupid, but to wave the Browns reunion carrot out there and throwing away phone numbers seems a bit extreme. Or, are you all that really good friends to be able to deal with each other on this level? Then come back later on and have a big group hug, while singing Kumbayaa.(sp)

I think I remember this same outburst about a year ago, and I went away for a while......

You all make a pretty decent soap opera, but you have seen the news.....the Writers signed and their all back at their desks. And who needs to read this trash when time is such a premium....we all must choose wisely in where and what we do with such a precious commodity.

So, enjoy the fight and I'll be back at a later time to see if an civility still lives here.
Today 05:02 PM
limaguy Quote:
Originally Posted by Iowafan
Little Man?

HD yanking your chain about your investigative abilities and DA alliance is a far sight different than saying something derogatory and an attempt at demeaning his stature.

Pretty classless, Dude. But hey, some of us don't see things the way you do, right?
Remind me to lose your number. Maybe you and your 3 unhappy posters will enjoy your next weekend in Cleveland because you damn sure won't be there with me. Me and my tidbits will play elsewhere.

Unbelievable!

I kind of thought my reply to a post laced with insult and about not much else was between me and him.

He can dish it out but not take it.

You two have become the talking heads.

I will be honest. If you wish to lose my number I still sleep well tonight.

If I am not in Cleveland I didn't plan on it anyhow so again I lose no sleep. Is that supposed to hurt?

Is that supposed to hurt because I disagreed with you?

If you play elsewhere....again, the kid is sleeping like a baby tonight. This is just a little later than last year when you left for good over disagreement.

If that was as deep as it ran then that pretty much speaks for itself. It is or was what it was.

If you can't disagree any better than that then you will probably not enjoy any other message boards because this is mild.

If I am the only one here and that whining and crying about nothing is gone I will see it as a much better place, and I know for a fact that I am not alone in that thinking.

It's your thing, do what you want to do!
Today 04:45 PM
Iowafan Little Man?

HD yanking your chain about your investigative abilities and DA alliance is a far sight different than saying something derogatory and an attempt at demeaning his stature.

Pretty classless, Dude. But hey, some of us don't see things the way you do, right?
Remind me to lose your number. Maybe you and your 3 unhappy posters will enjoy your next weekend in Cleveland because you damn sure won't be there with me. Me and my tidbits will play elsewhere.

Unbelievable!
Today 03:56 PM
limaguy I will try to explain....

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I am 50 years old.

These past several years everything is now some sort of issue.

You can't comment on anything regarding a black human being, or gays, or women, or even now the animals have rights and movements without it becoming an issue regarding that group of people.

The only freakin group of people that you cannot offend left is the rednecks! They will join in if you start dawggin them. God bless them good ole boys. They actually make money off of their ability to be insensitive about who they are, a most interesting concept.

Without turning this into an issue driven thread I am trying to articulate my way of looking at it, right or wrong, and I want the right to be right or wrong, without some movement telling me how I have to feel about it or anything else.

Everything in my life has had a part in forming me and fashioning me to this point. We have prejudices we know nothing about. A white woman told me the other day in reference to a good friend of hers that you would hardly know he is black as he is like white people. She meant it.

That's sad to some but we should be able to laugh it off because we all have a real long ways to go. She meant well. She meant no harm whatsoever and was totally ignorant to the revelation of her heart in that moment.

We all come from our cultures and they shaped us.

If he (back to BQ) heckled a female with big boobs that could come back as some thing demeaning to women in general because she has big boobs and there is more to her than that.

The reason I don't see it as a major thing is because what he might have done, so far all we know is it's alleged, is he was probably out drinking with the boys, and who knows what got it to where it got to, so we only have part of a story here, but in that situation and there are two parties, probably mouthing off, it's not uncommon for anybody running their mouth by this time to say hey fat boy if you are fat, or maybe hey little man if you are little, or maybe faggot of you are gay, or racial slurs or whatever.

I am not from a sensitive generation. I actually like not being all sensitive and issue driven. I don't have time for all those feelings.

For me the bigger issue was not what he said but that he was in a valley of decision while embarking on his professional career and he showed poor judgement but not that far off of typical behavior for a man his age out doing what he was doing.

I wish he would have done better but everybody should get a second chance, everybody.

He who is without ever saying something they shouldn't let him cast the first stone.

So no, not really just because I am not able to relate to the gay community, and I actually hate to have to tippie around when we attempt to talk about black coaches, having to pick my words carefully so as not to offend, I didn't see this as less than a big deal only because it's regarding a homosexual.

He doesn't really have to be sensitive and he doesn't have to go to hours of sensitivity classes, and if he is prejudice or anti gay then so be it.

That is his right, that is the right of free will.

In his position he should monitor his behavior because of being in his position. That is his requirement, that is his responsibility based on his position.

How he feels about any facet of the population is still his business.

How he responds to those facets is now the business of those who issue his checks.

Oh yea, one more thing. I had to do an edit to get this in.

Remember that SuperBowl commercial I think last year? The two mechanics did something gay, I forget what it was but it was by mistake and they started pulling their chest hair our with their bare hands to prove their manhood.

That was funny, real funny. It was a commercial and it was all a joke.

Some driven people felt that was insensitive to the homosexual community and they pressured them to take it off.

That is silly and unnecessary.

See what I mean?
Today 03:18 PM
BrownsFan17 As an athlete, he is, whether he likes it or not, a role model and spouting hate of any kind is deplorable. I certainly hope that he didn't do it.

Limaguy, if he had been spouting any other kind of hatred besides anti-gay would you still think people were being too sensitive?
Today 02:54 PM
limaguy The big issue.....

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
......will not so much be with the fans as with the gay right activist.

For some reason the sensitive people in this world have all the say and even if he was too close to it for his own good there may be finincial ramifications.

I don't know how Subway is but usually they put the pressure on these places to remove their affiliations with the person in question and the establishments prefer to avoid the pressure.

I hope he has a good answer to all this and he will be fine in the longrun but it was probably a decision that was not made in his own best interest considering where he is currently in life.

Man would I hate to be anyone in the limelight at that age in this era.
Today 02:21 PM
TucsonBrown I am personally sick of all the hatred . . .

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which was involved in the incident at Columbus.

Why in heck just not leave those people alone when they're in their own territory? What is it with some guys that they have to belittle other human beings in order to feel big?

Personally, gays represent no threat to me. I've never understood the condition, but there is a lot I don't understand--I don't get hateful about it. What they do says nothing about my orientation.

Some people think that the gays are out there looking for "converts" to their "team", as Seinfeld called it. From everything I've heard and read about the subject, sexual orientation is not a choice--depending on one's viewpoint, it's either a genetic difference or a short circuit in sexual development. But again, since it has no effect in my life, I say live and let live.

My point: I can understand Brady Quinn and his buddies coming over from Troy, Ohio, to have a night on the town. O.K.--then eat your Mexican food and then leave the area. Don't hang around shouting juvenile, insulting remarks at the gays who are only going to their bar.

Sheesh. Like that whole thing is important.



LORD, I WISH WE HAD OUR PLAYERS IN CAMP ALREADY
Today 01:51 PM
limaguy Quote:
Originally Posted by H-D
Crack reporting job, Columbo! I read this drivel over a month ago and Quinn was there with some rowdy bar patrons, but had nothing to do with the incident.

Oops, forgot, you love DA and are determine to stand by your man. Kewl. HD

Actually I am not against BQ in any way.

I don't see this as a major issue, that word alleged word is used so it's hard to say how big a deal it is if at all and if he was involved I hope he makes better choices as he has his entire career in front of him.

The article is dated today in case you missed that.

I have no plan to get into a pissing contest with you over this stuff.

It's the news today, it's something that was featured on sportstalk and most of the callers were not aware that this had even happened, nor did I, and most people appear to have his back only hoping he learns to avoid instances like this, if indeed he was involved.
Today 01:44 PM
limaguy Are you addressing me?

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What is with all the mouthy tone?

That is in the news today and I posted it.

Grow up little man!
Today 01:42 PM
H-D Crack reporting job, Columbo! I read this drivel over a month ago and Quinn was there with some rowdy bar patrons, but had nothing to do with the incident.

Oops, forgot, you love DA and are determine to stand by your man. Kewl.

BTW, the Giants won the Super Bowl. - Dated 2-2-2008 Didn't know if you got that far.

Here's a few things I copied from Lane Atkins from The OBR regarding the whole Crennel/Grantham incident, which he calls "scary and unprofessional." This would seem to shatter your worldly feel-good view of the Browns thus far. Enjoy!

BTW, I saw your backpeddling on my thread, and like I told Iowa, you're caught somewhere between excessively confused and lovestruck, not that there's anything wrong with that. Don't take it personal, eight?

Pft. I don't care for your back-handed insults, and I can't speak for Iowa, but I do know he's insulted by them. Maybe you should consider your approach before you call someone a rumor monger or state that we're whiny for reporting, what seems to be, the apparent truth.

But hey, RAC got an extension, and God knows NO ONE gets an extension who isn't good, right? God, I feel dirty adopting this attitude with you, but you only understand things when they're put to you bluntly.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: The OBR The Todd Grantham, Part 3. Author Lane Atkins.
http://cle.scout.com/2/728466.html

LA: In discussions with numerous sources regarding the state of affairs within the Cleveland Browns organization, I have been led to believe that there was significant turmoil and a lack of professionalism involved, which directly took a toll on the Cleveland defense. Where did the issues between the head coach and former defensive coordinator begin?

Reason: It had been widely presumed that head coach Romeo Crennel was in jeopardy in Cleveland and the organization was in the position to plan for a successor. Crennel is highly regarded and respected around the league.... it would have been done an injustice to remove him without being granted the opportunity to see his plan through.

Crennel is the type of coach that lets his coaches coach... that is their job... being on that end of the spectrum for the majority of his coaching career. While he and Todd Grantham did not the share the same overall philosophy overall, there was an ability to work both styles.

What transpired to flame the fires is what is troubling to say the least. Grantham did not simply assume he was going to be the next head coach of the Cleveland Browns. While a perception was evident that he could be the successor at some point, something happened...

Crennel comes from the old school mentality and is a deft believer in loyalty, trust and responsibility. He (Crennel) is the type of coach that expects nothing less from the players and his coaches. In the situation involving Grantham, it was others involved that led to the bad and very ugly situation within the Cleveland Browns organization, Grantham and to an extent Crennel only ran with or sought a remedy to the situation.


LA: Where did this “path of destruction” originate?

Reason: (General Manager) Phil Savage spoke highly of Grantham and he was rewarded a contract extension. The organization paid close attention to Grantham's abilities and did the head coach an injustice by putting the defensive coordinator on such a pedestal.

Late in the 2006 season, as the team was floundering, team owner Randy Lerner was highly upset with the development and embarrassment (of the Cleveland Browns). My belief from all the insight is that Lerner wanted to let Crennel go, which did not happen in thanks to a great sales job by Savage. Savage went to bat for Crennel, but did not lay his entire being on the table this time. It was Savage that basically got Crennel through the 2006 season, but it was also Savage that put it on the line that something would transpire with the head coach if the early returns in 2007 did not warrant a reason for optimism and development.

Somewhere along the line... the future of the Cleveland Browns and the role for Grantham was discussed with the former defensive coordinator. These discussions were with the immediate top of the organization or were relayed from such a high ranking position within the organization.

LA: Are you saying upper management of the Cleveland Browns discussed the head coach position with Todd Grantham, while Romeo Crennel was the head coach of the team?

Reason: Yes, in some capacity. Whether the discussion was a promise, an intent or generally noting a head coaching opportunity could be presented at some point, I am not certain. But, there was an element due to the extension and discussions which assumingly led Grantham to believe he was the head coach in waiting.

HD
Today 01:37 PM
limaguy Here is the article....

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Quinn part of rowdy group outside Columbus bar, witness says

by Aaron Marshall Wednesday February 13, 2008



Quinn part of rowdy group outside Columbus bar, witness says
by Aaron Marshall Wednesday February 13, 2008, 7:36 AM

Cleveland Browns quarterback Brady Quinn was part of a group of men shouting insults at gay passers-by outside a Columbus bar early on New Year's Day, according to a 9-1-1 call made to police.

The call at 2:35 a.m. came from Seth Harris, who reported that he encountered the group in front of La Fogata Grill at 790 North High St. The Mexican restaurant is next door to the Union Cafe Bar + Food, one of Columbus' most popular gay bars in the gay-friendly Short North neighborhood.

On the 9-1-1 call, Harris said that "Brady Quinn from the Browns" was "trying to cause a fight." Harris told the operator, "I just walked outside and he exchanged many profanities with me and called me a faggot, of course."

Reached Monday by The Plain Dealer, Harris confirmed that Quinn was the person who used the slur.

"I knew who it was," he said. "It wasn't just directed at me, there were other people around, too."

He said Quinn was with a "big group" of friends numbering perhaps 10, and that the quarterback "wasn't as involved as" others were in stirring up trouble. "He was standing back and letting his friends do most of it," Harris said.

On the call, Harris told police that "this has been going on all night and nobody has stopped anything."

Browns spokesman Bill Bonsiewicz had no comment. On Monday afternoon, Bonsiewicz said Quinn was training "out west" and said he had left messages for the quarterback and his agent, Tom Condon. By Tuesday evening, no response had been received.

Condon did not respond to a pair of e-mails requesting comment on the allegations made against the second-year quarterback from the Columbus area. The messages were sent after Condon's office advised that e-mail was the best way to contact the super-agent.

Quinn served as the Browns backup quarterback throughout 2007 and is a former first-round draft pick hailed as the team's savior at the quarterback position. A star player in college for Notre Dame and at Dublin Coffman High School outside Columbus, Quinn has parlayed his good looks and wholesome image into several lucrative national endorsement contracts.

On the 9-1-1 call, Harris told police that he feared for his safety.

"I'm not going to wait for police because it's going to turn ugly," Harris said. "They are being very violent and I probably should get away."

A Columbus police spokeswoman said officers arrived several minutes after Harris' call and found Quinn in the midst of an argument with 32-year-old Jason Thompson.

"I don't believe there were any punches being thrown -- it was more verbal than anything," said Columbus police spokeswoman Amanda Ford.

"When we got there, he was very cooperative and just stopped," Ford said of Quinn's encounter with police. "I think his friends were like, 'Let's get out of here.' "

However, police arrested Thompson when "he wouldn't back down and turned on officers," Ford said.

Additional police officers were called to help clear the scene, Ford said.

"From what I remember about it, there were so many people milling around in the parking lot that they called for more cars just so they could get things under control," she said.

Police arrested Thompson for disorderly conduct for failing to leave. His attorney, Joe Landusky, said that Thompson pleaded guilty to a minor misdemeanor and was given a suspended fine. Police say in the Thompson arrest report that two separate fights took place. Along with the Thompson fracas, the other confrontation appears to have involved Thompson's friend, Brian Dunfee.

Dunfee reported later to police that he suffered minor injuries to his left knee and right elbow when he was thrown to the ground by a 6-foot white man with brown hair, a police report says. Police labeled the attack on Dunfee as an "anti-male homosexual" hate crime.

La Fogata Grill owner Jeff Rinehart said Quinn's group, which he said included about a dozen people -- half men, half women -- did not cause any problems while drinking inside his restaurant on New Year's Eve.

"The only issue was trying to get everyone's checks figured out," he said.

Landusky, who represents Thompson and Dunfee, said his clients encountered Quinn's group outside La Fogata Grill. Landusky said Dunfee isn't sure who threw him to the ground.

"In all fairness to what the truth is, I don't know if Brady Quinn himself had anything to do with" the injuries, Landusky said. "It might have just been people he was with."

Landusky said Thompson was "trying to protect his friend" when he was arrested.

The head of a Columbus gay and lesbian anti-violence group called the report of Quinn using a slur "very distressing."

"That person is in theory a role model for so many people," said Gloria McCauley, executive director of the Buckeye Region Anti-Violence Organization. "To have one of our well-known people engage in behavior that I consider hateful saddens me. We obviously need to do a lot more education."

To hear the 911 call go to the article:

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/inde...of_making.html
Today 01:32 PM
limaguy Quinn allegedly accused of.....

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brady Quinn-QB-Browns Feb. 13 - 10:21 am et

Police were called to break up an altercation involving Brady Quinn on New Year's Day.

Quinn was allegedly part of a group of men provoking gay passers-by with insults outside of a Columbus bar. The altercation never escalated above the verbal stage, and Quinn appeared cooperative once police arrived.

Source: Cleveland Plain Dealer

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