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Subject: Re: Ivy Madness


Author:
Fear the Quaker
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Date Posted: 08:33:21 03/12/26 Thu
In reply to: Memphis Bill 's message, "Ivy Madness" on 15:13:35 03/11/26 Wed

Well, let us all be glad that it is just 4 teams because the first poster would be crazed if all 8 were invited. As to court choice, the league wants everybody to host, so neutrality is always at risk.

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[> [> Subject: Fore! I Mean, Four! Shout Out to Bill Tierney


Author:
An Observer
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Date Posted: 11:25:05 03/12/26 Thu

If you were an omnipotent being and wanted to design a postseason tournament for an eight-team conference, there's no way that you'd pick an eight-team field. That completely devalues the regular season.

Choosing a smaller field not only maintains the importance of the regular season, it heightens the excitement of the last few weeks of the season. The top of the totem pole is jockeying for seeds and the title of course, but the real impact is on teams 3-7. These teams are out of the running for a championship by then, but are still locked in a real battle to make the field.

What happens in other conferences where the entire league is invited to their tournament? In the Big Ten, who cares if your team finishes 17th or 18th? It's not like there's a meaningful seeding advantage. You don't even get the first pick in next year's draft.

Our four-team field is so much better than an eight-team field, we should never take it for granted.

And yet, our structure was not designed for this beneficial effect on excitement and drama. It's pure serendipity.

The only reason we have postseason tournaments with smaller fields of four is that Bill Tierney suggested a men's lacrosse tournament to improve the RPI of Ivy teams before the NCAA field was selected. There was no point in having the bottom of the conference involved for this objective. Indeed, the weaker teams would hurt, not help, the RPI of the contenders.

So in 2010, Tierney proposed a tournament with only four participants and, here we are 16 years later, with the best conference tournaments in college sports.

We weren't smart. We got lucky. Thank you, Bill Tierney.
[> [> [> Subject: Re: Fore! I Mean, Four! Shout Out to Bill Tierney


Author:
sparman
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Date Posted: 13:38:38 03/12/26 Thu

I think there is a signficant advantage in Big10 for higher finishes because (1) top 4 seeds don't polay until round 4; (2) seeds 5-8 don't play until play until round 3; (3) seeds 9-12 don't play until round 2, and the bottom seeds must play in a round 1. So, for example, while 17th versus 18th doesn't make much difference other than possible advantage in opponents if they keep advancing, 15th versus 14th does - fewer rounds to qualify for the NCAA (however unlikely), less exhaustion from repeatedly having to play consecutive days. Maybe some other conferences operate similarly.

I had not known the 4-team playoff approach is called the Shaughnessy Playoff and was first devised in 1933 for minor league baseball. https://sabr.org/bioproj/person/frank-shag-shaughnessy/ (his major league baseball experience is oddly similar to Moonlight Graham's). Glad to see that Tierney was able to convince the IL to adopt it, although it has been said his main goal was to increase the chances of securing multiple ivy NCAA bids at a time when it appeared Cornell was likely to be the #1 ivy force for a while, and having everyone participate probably would have meant that the second ivy team had an more difficult challenge to winning the tournament while team #1 in regular season would have had a bye.


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