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Subject: What Is The Competitive Effect on Ivy Sports? Author: An Observer [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ] Date Posted: 16:44:03 06/07/24 Fri Today, Stanford University announced that it, too, would follow Dartmouth's lead in once again requiring all high school applicants to submit standardized test scores. This adds Stanford to other colleges which were convinced by Dartmouth's rationale earlier this spring that mandatory test scores play a positive role in the application process. These other colleges include Harvard, Yale, Brown, MIT, Georgetown, Caltech and the Universities of Florida, Georgia and Texas. One aspect of this topic which we have not discussed is its competitive impact on Ivy sports. When you do not require all applicants to submit and SAT/ACT score, predictably what happens is that low scoring applicants do not provide their scores, while high scoring applicants continue to do so. Therefore, the reported average and median scores at that specific college go **UP** even though the overall quality of the student body is unchanged. It's merely an accounting change. But in the Ivy League, that accounting matters because of the Academic Index. There are two primary impacts, external and internal: External to the Ivy League, when our reported SAT/ACT scores go up, the minimum AI score for recruited athletes goes up and the entire distribution curve moves to the right. This affects all sports and especially the four bands applicable to the football programs. Because our reported SAT/ACT scores are high right now, it has never been harder to recruit football players who clear the AI minimum. Internal to the Ivy League, when some members require all applicants to supply their scores while others do not, it creates an uneven competitive landscape. If Princeton does not match Harvard and Yale in mandating SAT/ACT scores, the Tigers will be at a competitive disadvantage to their rivals. If I'm Bob Surace, this is bad news for me. So the list of disadvantaged Ivy competitors is Princeton, Penn, Columbia and Cornell. [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

Replies:

[> Subject: Re: What Is The Competitive Effect on Ivy Sports? Author: sparman [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 18:42:04 06/07/24 Fri Do we know there has been no adjustment for this? Hard to believe the affected coaches would not have brought it to attention of the ADs.

[> [> Subject: Don't know, but it could explain... Author: Go Green [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 12:25:46 06/10/24 Mon ... why Princeton has slipped a bit on the field.

[> Subject: Re: What Is The Competitive Effect on Ivy Sports? Author: RedWin [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 11:11:45 06/10/24 Mon As I have previously mentioned on this website, I think SAT/ACT scores are just one resource for evaluating successful Ivy League students. I am not a big fan of standardized tests as some kids can ace them but not be hard workers and others are great students but terrible at standardized tests. I don't think it will have a big impact on Ivy League athletics as long as there is flexibility. It's funny I have a buddy who is a Gastro doctor specializing in liver transplants. He said it's tough finding smart medical students who also have good hand-eye coordination needed for their work. He was just telling me over the weekend they were in surgery and one of the young interns he is training has the worst BO. Imagine being in surgery for hours with a group of doctors and nurses and one of your colleagues has bad BO. That's one of those factors standardized tests cannot measure.

[> [> Subject: Re: What Is The Competitive Effect on Ivy Sports? Author: An Observer [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 16:55:24 06/10/24 Mon RW, I certainly agree with you that standardized test scores are not the "be-all and end-all" when it comes to evaluating college applicants. As you point out, taking tests is a skill. Some kids have that skill, but don't follow up by working hard. Others work hard, but don't have that particular skill. Having said that, both Dartmouth and Stanford explained in their announcements that they had studied the correlation between applicants' test scores and their academic performance in college. Both Dartmouth and Stanford said that standardized test scores were the single best predictor of performance in Hanover or on the Farm, better than high school grades or achievement/Advanced Placement tests. So it's not that SAT/ACT scores are perfect or even excellent predictors of who will succeed in college. But they **ARE** the best thing going, period. I think admissions officers always knew this intuitively, but as we know, there were political forces arguing against the use of standardized tests because of concern that family income was more important in driving test scores than academic ability. My general view is that admitting college applicants is a very, very difficult business. It is not a job that I would want. But if forced to do it, at a minimum, I would demand that I receive as much data as possible. Under no circumstances would I say, "This data is imperfect, so I don't want it." Income statements are an imperfect summary of how a company is performing financially. Would you want to evaluate a company without looking at its income statement? As an aside, I wouldn't want to work with anybody who had body odor. I know this from personal experience. I especially wouldn't want to work in an OR with a fellow surgeon who had BO. Operating rooms have minimal air circulation, by design. That is, I'm against ORBO. On the other hand, among all the surgeons with terrible body odor, I'd take my chances with the odiferous individual who had the highest SAT scores.