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Subject: Prediction Author: Oricle (Hey, there's an Elephant!) [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ] Date Posted: 16:25:10 11/05/09 Thu The imbalance among the Ivies' endowments has created a huge discrepancy among Financial Aid offers which will inevitably lead to competitive imbalance. It seems to me that there are three levels in the league; HYP at the financial top, Penn and Cornell in the middle for various reasons, and Brown, Dartmouth and Columbia, the little three. In the current financial environment, what to do? I don't think the reaction will be the same at all 8 schools, but I'm willing to predict that many of the Ivys will react by dropping some sports, and downgrading others to D3 or to Club Sports. Penn and Columbia do not play Hockey, Columbia does not play LAX. I have no insight as to which sports might be vulnerable, but Wrestling, Baseball, Softball, Golf, Swimming, Water Polo and Gymnastics would seem likely candidates. I'm not sure what benefit there is to DI for these, except Baseball and Softball get into a tournament for one round. Some other sports like Squash and Crew seem to be pretty much funded by Alumni donations. And Football, Basketball, Soccer and LAX seem well enough entrenched and at least partially supported. Most Ivies are competing in 25 to 35 sports. I just don't think that's sustainable. [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

Replies:

[> Subject: My prediction Author: reality check [Edit] Date Posted: 16:30:37 11/05/09 Thu The Yankees in 6 [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> Subject: Re: My prediction Author: Kevin [Edit] Date Posted: 19:26:25 11/05/09 Thu Posthumous predictions are always the most accurate. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> Subject: Read my lips Author: GHWB [Edit] Date Posted: 17:38:14 11/05/09 Thu You can't have some sports D-3 and others D-1. NCAA regulations don't allow it. It's not for the Ivy schools to "decide" to do this. How many times does this have to be said before it sinks in? Or are you predicting the League will go D-3 in everything? [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> Subject: Re: Read my lips Author: Quayle [Edit] Date Posted: 18:32:24 11/05/09 Thu Basically correct, though I think schools can get a waiver in one sport, e.g. Hobart or Hopkins in lacrosse. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> Subject: Re: Read my lips Author: joiseyfan [Edit] Date Posted: 00:44:49 11/06/09 Fri This exception is closed; only specific grandfathered teams were allowed DI status in single sports before the deadline. Most are in lax (e.g. Hopkins, Hobart) and ice hockey (Clarkson, RPI) From now on, it's all or nothing. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> Subject: Re: Prediction Author: M3 [Edit] Date Posted: 19:00:20 11/05/09 Thu HYP and Pe in the ACC (northern division) to balance out Uva/Duke/Wake Forest in the southern division [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> Subject: Re: Prediction Author: chazza [Edit] Date Posted: 19:09:59 11/05/09 Thu Of late, Brown has had some impressive results in BB, except a year ago, M soccer, and FB, at least, even with its $$ situation. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> Subject: Re: Prediction Author: Keep Dreaming- Competition Makes for Surprises [Edit] Date Posted: 19:38:34 11/05/09 Thu [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> Subject: Re: Prediction Author: Oricle (Oh) [Edit] Date Posted: 20:49:34 11/05/09 Thu So, the only choice is to drop the sport, rather than compete on a D2 or D3 level? Do you think the NCAA really wants that? [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> Subject: Do you think the NCAA cares about the ivy league? Author: Joke of the week [Edit] Date Posted: 21:43:08 11/05/09 Thu [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> Subject: Re: Prediction Author: D-III [Edit] Date Posted: 23:07:28 11/05/09 Thu How would D-III save money? No scholarships are given currently so that is moot... I guess coaching salaries would be less, but thats about it. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> Subject: Re: Prediction Author: Kevin [Edit] Date Posted: 23:12:18 11/05/09 Thu It would actually lose money. Less revenue from ticket, food, merch sales etc, and pretty much the same on travel expenses- we all play each other, so that mileage would remain intact, and most of us schedule non-conference games in the Northeast anyway. So there is absolutely no reason to even contemplate moving to D-III, other than to be more competitive. Next. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Prediction Author: D-III [Edit] Date Posted: 09:09:14 11/06/09 Fri Exactly, The normal cost saving reason for moving to D-III, scholarship expenses, does not apply to the Ivies so that has no impact whatsoever. Travel will be the same. Insurances, equipment, and other ansulary expenses would be about the same. They coaching staff may be reduced and paid less, but that savings would be minimal. In the case of the Ivies I dont see how moving to D-III would save all that much money. I think the Ivis will be D-I for as long as they play football (or until further sub-division of D-I occurs. They already play in their own little universe so classification is almost secondary. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> Subject: NCAA didn't care about former MAC teams Author: Go Green [Edit] Date Posted: 08:54:31 11/06/09 Fri THhe NCAA didn't care that several teams have already discontinued after being forced up to Division I-AA. Iona, St. John's, St. Peter's all were doing fine at the D-III level and probably begged the NCAA to let them back down to D-III because they were getting their asses kicked at I-AA level. There are a lot of other I-AA teams that probably would love to move back down to Division III (including Georgetown) but can't so long as the NCAA's rule is in place. I *can* see the NCAA lightening up a bit if another 10 or 15 teams go kaput. Maybe they allow exceptions upon application if a team has less than a .300 winning percentage over a five-year period. But we're still ways away from that. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> Subject: And by the way... Author: Go Green [Edit] Date Posted: 09:02:41 11/06/09 Fri Anyone who wants to know the purpose of the "everything or nothing at Division III," google "Dayton Rule." The NCAA believed that teams that played Division III football, but otherwise had Division I facilities (weight and locker rooms) got too much of an advantage over teams that were Division III across the board. I get it, really I do. But I wouldn't be surprised if the NCAA reverses itself if more of the former D-III teams that have been I-AA bottom feeders find that they are in over their heads... [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> Subject: Re: Prediction Author: Oricle [Edit] Date Posted: 09:15:55 11/06/09 Fri It seems to me that you could concentrate you Fin. Aid "exceptions" to a much smaller group of sports. THere aren't any ticket, merchandise, etc. income now. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> Subject: Re: Prediction Author: AsiaSunset [Edit] Date Posted: 10:08:12 11/06/09 Fri Fin Aid is needs blind and must be applied in an even handed manner to athletes and non athletes. Might as well award athletic scholarships if we are going to jettison this basic Ivy tenet. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> Subject: Re: Prediction Author: Oracle (Execpt, Asia,) [Edit] Date Posted: 12:46:45 11/06/09 Fri for "matching" which some of the little guys do, with limited success, to try to compete with HYP. I don't believe it is done much with non-athletes. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> Subject: Re: Do you think the NCAA cares about the Ivy League? Author: You bet they do! [Edit] Date Posted: 18:22:50 11/06/09 Fri Let's not forget, NCAA major college sports depend largely on advertising revenue. Well who do you think are running those big companies that advertise on the major networks? Corporate America is full of Ivy League graduates, so you better believe the NCAA cares! [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> Subject: Re: Do you think the NCAA cares about the Ivy League? Author: Actually, no [Edit] Date Posted: 19:15:59 11/06/09 Fri Most of corporate America is run by non-ivy grads who love to follow their large-school football teams. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]