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Subject: It Is A Small College, Yet There Are Those Who Love It Author: An Observer [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ] Date Posted: 12:31:25 02/22/24 Thu In reply to: Son of Eli 's message, "Yale joins Dartmouth in restoring admissions Testing Requirement" on 09:23:33 02/22/24 Thu My joy at Yale reinstating the SAT/ACT requirement is based upon two streams of rationale. (1) Selecting applicants who have the capacity to be excellent college students and then hopefully outstanding citizens is difficult. Overall, our batting average in the Ivy League is better than institutions who do not have our brand names, but still not great on an absolute level. RedWin's anecdote about a family member who graduated from Princeton but has spun his wheels since then is far from an outlier. Given the difficulty of the task of assembling an outstanding freshman class, why make it any more challenging by denying yourself use of additional data? That data is not perfect and, certainly, some kids have advantages in test prep and coaching that others do not. Well, let's try to control or adjust for that, instead of just saying that SAT scores are irrelevant. SAT scores are not perfect predictors of anything, just as GPA's are not perfect predictors of anything, or teacher recommendations, or interviews. But you gather all the information you can and make the best decision you can. Don't let an imperfect test be the enemy of making a better decision. (2) More importantly, not requiring the SAT is another symptom of the dumbing down of America. Not requiring any test of competency sends all the wrong signals to young people and the world at large. It says, "We are willingly and consciously taking a step back from being a meritocracy." I'm curious what Harvard and Princeton will do. Harvard of course is already sensitive to sending signals after President Gay was forced to resign and Princeton had already announced that it would be test-optional for the next three admission cycles. Requiring the SAT before 2027 would be a back-track for the folks in New Jersey. But not following Dartmouth's lead will look more and more indefensible as more colleges do as Yale has done. Dartmouth College has done a great service to American higher education and to our society. Thank you to the Big Green. You know that I was rooting for your football team all along. [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

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[> Subject: Justin Watson Author: Bryan [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 18:29:29 02/22/24 Thu Clearly the decisions by Dartmouth and Yale were not based primarily on athletics. But, if other Ivy schools do not follow this lead is it a small, medium or large recruiting detriment compared to other testing optional Ivy schools? (Or is it not a recruiting factor at all?) My first reaction is that it's a minor recruiting disadvantage as there is likely one recruit somewhere who has been admitted to an Ivy school in the last few years who wouldn't have been admitted if the SAT or other submission requirement had been in place.

[> [> Subject: Re: Justin Watson Author: sparman [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 18:58:21 02/22/24 Thu The schools claim that not using SATs works to detriment of minority applicants. So to the extent such potential applicants might be athletic recruiting targets, one might argue that requiring SATs will even create some modest recruiting advantage. While I don't question the reason for raising the matter, IMO this is still a purely academic exercise not worth getting worked up over at the moment.