Author:
M Wu
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Date Posted: 17:26:36 07/08/07 Sun
>>>>>>>You have the following hand:
>>>>>>>S K
>>>>>>>H A86
>>>>>>>D A6
>>>>>>>C AKQT872
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>The bidding goes
>>>>>>>You - Pn
>>>>>>>1C - 1S
>>>>>>>3C - 3H
>>>>>>>4C - 5C
>>>>>>>?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>What would you bid over 5C?
>>>>>>Since you had under bid'd your hand by a ton,so
>the
>>>>>>normal bids (such as 5D forcing to 6C and hoping
>>for
>>>>a
>>>>>>5S bid)are
>>>>>>all out.The remaining will be PASS ( Brave..hoping
>>>>for
>>>>>>a top),7C or & 7NT (greedy ..but these will be my
>>>>>>table bid,who knows what is 3H after 3C)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Cheer
>>>>>
>>>>>Thanks for your reply. I am sorry I couldn't get
>the
>>>>>underbid you meant. 3C is forcing, showing a decent
>>>>>suit. 4C is slam try, asking pn to cue bid. Since
>>the
>>>>>level is still at 4, pn could make cue bid for 2nd
>>>>>round.
>>>>>
>>>>>In my opinion, the disciplined bid should be pass.
>>>>>
>>>>>3C is commonly treated as invitational. If so, you
>>>>>must employ false reveres. It means you have to
>>>>>reveres with 3 or occasionally 2 cards.
>>>>>
>>>>>If your hand is that good to make slam without any
>>>>>help from pn, I think you should open 2C.
>>>>
>>>>Hi,
>>>>This is most "uncommon" to treat
>>>>
>>>>1C 1X
>>>>3C as forcing. may be this is a good idea which
>opens
>>>>fields for thought.
>>>>
>>>>indeed,the "false" reverse with a 2/3 cards suit is
>>>>the most 'common" parctise.The idea is to create a
>>one
>>>>round force to find the 5-3 fit in the major as your
>>>>jump raise will 100% shows 4 cards support.
>>>>
>>>>I do not think 4C is the slam try.What to do if you
>>>>cannot bid 3NT? 9 in case you do not have a Diamond
>>>>stopper.
>>>>
>>>>going back to my 1st para
>>>>
>>>>1 minor 1Major
>>>>3 minor
>>>>
>>>>This is a weak point in the standard bidding,always
>>>>need good partnership understanding in this sequnce.
>>>
>>>Traditionally, all jumps in natural are defined as
>16+
>>>in term of HCP. It means it's forcing since opener
>>>could as many as 20 HCP.
>>>
>>>False reveres is employed by opener only. Since some
>>>treat 1m-3m as invitational, they need to estabish a
>>>forcing sequence. They would "borrow" the reveres.
>For
>>>the given hand, if opener plays 3m as invitational,
>he
>>>has to 2H or 2D. The risk of both bids would lead you
>>>to uncomfortable contract. Eg, pn would raise H with
>4
>>>or he would bid NT with H and S stoppers in fact
>>>neither side may have no D stoppers if opener reveres
>>>with 3 or even 2. The worst thing is he jumps to 5D
>>>with a weak hand but long D. The pitfall of the false
>>>reveres is that pn could not tell whether you have a
>>>single suiter hand or 2 suiters hand. It puts pn
>>>completely in dark. Especially when opener needs some
>>>contributions from pn to find out possible slams , he
>>>would have problems to set trump properly and tell
>>>your shape. Opener may have 6-4. After reveres, he
>>>likely rebid his first bid suit again.
>>>
>>>Imagine if the pnship plays false reverse on this
>>>particular hand. Whichever reveres bid they choose,
>2D
>>>or 2H, it's difficult to imagine that opener has 7
>>>solid C.
>>>
>>>4C is conditional slam try on assumption that 3C is
>>>game forcing. If game forcing sequence has been
>>>estabished, the only weak bid is the game contract
>>>itself. Fast arrival does in act. Therefore, 4C would
>>>ask pn to start cue bidding.
>>>
>>>If you really have no D stoppers, you likely have
>>>couple of S or H. 4-3 trump nor 5-2 trump isn't very
>>>bad contract. 4C is passable if 3C is invitational.
>pn
>>>could always return to 5C, if he think it's more
>>>comfortable contact. Another point to mention is 4H
>by
>>>opener could only show 3H support. with 4, he may
>have
>>>reveres in H.
>>>
>>>In fact, the issue of the hand is not on what 4c is.
>>>Opposite the 4C, pn keeps bidding on. The strong bid
>>>available to him is definitely a cue bid. After the
>>>strong suggestions from opener, trump should have set
>>>in C. Pn could have as few as 6 HCP. Opener wouldn't
>>>be able to find out that whether to bid 2D/2H or 3C.
>>>
>>>What I mean is that the captain of the bidding should
>>>be pn, instead of opener himself.
>>
>>well if you treat the traditional 1m 3m rebid as
>>forcing then you are reading a much older books then i
>>do. but this is not the key issue.
>>if you take way the Ace of Diamond,I dont think you
>>will bid 2C after a 1 over 1. do you?
>>Going back to this hand,I think the key issue here is
>>who is the Captain .Specifically after the 3H bid by
>>the responder.
>>Let's play 1m 3m rebid as forcing ( showing 16-21
>>points as you had mentioned),then the responder cannot
>>be the capatin after the 3C bid at least not at this
>>stage,due to the wide range of the 3C rebid. Then the
>>logical follow up with be stopper showing bid en-route
>>to 3NT.So the 3H bid can be a Heart stopper (with no
>>Diamond stopper).
>>Then the 4C bid sounds "Pn,I have no diamond
>>stopper,so no 3NT".
>>Now the responder is in a position to be the capatin.
>>He can pass the 4C bid or bid something else.
>>Again all depends how you treat the 3H bid or what is
>>the partnership agreement.
>>What if...if 1 minor 3 minor rebid shows 19-21 points
>>then there will not be any doubt in captincy
>>
>>Cheer
>
>No, I will not bid 2C without DA. However, I will bid
>3NT. Opposite minimum response, no game contracts are
>appealing but 3NT. None of opp announces D threat.
>There are choices of opening lead. with 3H and 1S, 4M
>is far away unless pn are willing to bid mention
>anothr major over 3NT. 3NT should show running minor.
>
>In my opinion, 3H should show 5H or be willing to play
>4-3H at 4H. But that's not the case of this hand. 3H
>should show 5 because opener shouldn't have 4H for his
>3C bid. 3S should be good 5 or 6S. 3D is known as
>stolen bid which emobodied in SAYC at the beginning
>stage. It acts like a checkback to see whether opener
>has 3S.
>
>If I were the responder, I would bid 3NT with minimum
>values. Firstly, it's questionable whether opener
>would have more than 9 tricks by his own assets.
>Secondly, as mentioned, D may not be the real threat.
>In general, players would bid 3H with 5S and 4H simply
>because it is fairly natural bid to describe the
>distribution regardless of his D stoppers. Therefore,
>responder may have half stoppers or 3 little small or
>even 4 small.
>
>The captain I mean is whether to bid 6 or not, ie over
>4C. Assuming 4C is forcing, responder bids 5C again.
>Should you bid 6C?
>
>If the 19-21 range of jump bids is employed, I doublt
>the usefulness. How often would a hand consist of
>19-21 and good suit? The answer to this question is
>very rare. Besides, there should be not enought bids
>available for hands between 16-18.
There are 3 issues here
First-if 4C is forcing,then 5C is the CLOSING bid.because the responder has nothing to bid and cannot pass
Second-This is more to me that 4C is the running bid..I have no Diamond stopper and cannot bid 3NT. you cannot ASSUME pn has a diamond stopper and this hand has no Diamond threat.
Third-the 3H can show 5 cards abd this is the bid with 55 or better in majors. but more likely is stopper showing.pn is going to bid 3NT with one.
Bottom line-the bid 1m 3m rebid is forcing...this is bad. not even Culbertson is using this.
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