Re: Okay - Chapter 12 -- The Beta Board

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Date Posted: 19:49:49 05/18/05 Wed
Author: Shanola
Subject: Re: Okay - Chapter 12
In reply to: Diane 's message, "Okay - Chapter 12" on 21:56:11 04/29/05 Fri

Why is it important that Ken be physically able to lead teams in the field? I don't recall Madeline ever doing that. So why should Ken?

Also, I would think that if Ken were to ask to quit sparring with Snow, he'd have already come up with a proper reason/response, instead of just repeating his request.

You named and then cancelled the Torture Twins because Ken is SOOOOOO much better at interrogation than they or Madeline *ever* were. Sorry but this screams "MARY SUE" to me. And Ken uses the exact same technique on every person brought in? And it works the same way for every one? Totally not believable.

Also, not buying that Madeline's quaters would scream "Bordello!" with red velvet this and that. I am just not buying that. Look at her office and the way she dressed to get some idea of her style. Also not buying the fact that Ken left everything the exact same. We saw in the beginning of S2 that Section removed everything that once belonged to a Section 'employee'. Why wouldn't they do the same for Madeline?

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[> [> [> Re: Okay - Chapter 12 -- Diane, 19:50:53 05/19/05 Thu

Why is it important that Ken be physically able to lead teams in the field? I don't recall Madeline ever doing that. So why should Ken?

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Ken replaced Michael in addition to Madeline, so he would be leading teams.

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Also, I would think that if Ken were to ask to quit sparring with Snow, he'd have already come up with a proper reason/response, instead of just repeating his request.

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I was trying to show his inability to communicate effectively, especially with a delicate subject. It does come up in Chapter 14 why he is upset with Snow, and Nikita finds out--it's because Snow talks incessantly about Michael and Nikita's sex life. If you can help me to illustrate this in a better way, I'm all ears (or all fingers, as it were lol).

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You named and then cancelled the Torture Twins because Ken is SOOOOOO much better at interrogation than they or Madeline *ever* were. Sorry but this screams "MARY SUE" to me.

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I had the torture twins cancelled because they were sick, and Ken's technique is vastly different from Madeline's, not necessarily better. It's easier for Nikita to watch because it' not as difficult to watch without the yellow cases. How can I make this less Mary Sue-ish?

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And Ken uses the exact same technique on every person brought in? And it works the same way for every one? Totally not believable.

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I only showed him using the technique once, but I did imply it was his usual M.O. I see what you mean. How can I write this to show that this was his most effective, but not his only, means of obtaining information?

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Also, not buying that Madeline's quaters would scream "Bordello!" with red velvet this and that. I am just not buying that. Look at her office and the way she dressed to get some idea of her style.

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I actually read this in a fanfic somewhere, and the image never left my mind. I do see your point, though. I'll have to work on this.

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Also not buying the fact that Ken left everything the exact same. We saw in the beginning of S2 that Section removed everything that once belonged to a Section 'employee'. Why wouldn't they do the same for Madeline?

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I didn't figure the 'gutting of apartments' treatment went for the executives as well. As far as Ken not changing anything, he's just not the type to make waves. He lives where he's told. The style of his surrounding doesn't interest him. If you truly think I should 'gut' Madeline's apartment, I could have Ken living in extremely Spartan quarters. In Chapter 14, I have Nikita giving him a hard time about his furnishings (the red velvet bordello look); I could change this to her just making him spruce up his place a bit. Would that help?

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[> [> [> [> Re: Okay - Chapter 12 -- Shanola, 19:30:12 05/20/05 Fri

I was trying to show his inability to communicate effectively, especially with a delicate subject. It does come up in Chapter 14 why he is upset with Snow, and Nikita finds out--it's because Snow talks incessantly about Michael and Nikita's sex life. If you can help me to illustrate this in a better way, I'm all ears (or all fingers, as it were lol).

I think the problem is that you don't have him answer at all, just repeat his request. Maybe a lame answer would be better; "I don't like his technique" or "Snow hasn't been able to teach me anything", or even "I have my reasons". Up to you, though.

As for having the torture twins cancelled because they were sick...I disagree with that. I think they were very effective and after all, we never did learn what they do with those yellow cases. I think Nikita would be pretty stupid to eliminate such an effective tool because she felt they were 'sick'. If she was going to do that, she'd eliminate Section itself and be done with it.

How can you make Ken less Mary Sue-ish when describing his interrogation style? Don't compare so thoroughly to Madeline or the TT. You could also say that he chose to use this particular method for that particular SOTW. The way that it is written, you are totally dismissing Madeline's technique as silly and ineffectual, when in fact, she was extremely effective. I have a difficult time believing someone would step in and be more effective. Different, yes, okay. But not better. You see?

I could better believe that Ken would live in gutted quarters rather than Section leaving Madeline's apartment the way it was. After all, I would think that the very first thing they would do is to clear everything out and then go over it carefully to make sure there were no leaks/bombs hidden away. Think of Section as a big corporation: if the head of the IT dept suddenly says he's leaving, many times they are escorted from the building to make sure they don't take anything that doesn't belong to them. Granted, Section is a bit more extreme, but Madeline could potentially do more damage to them. See?

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[> [> [> [> [> You've given me some good ideas -- Diane, 20:12:11 05/20/05 Fri

I'll work on the Chapter 12 rewrite this weekend. I still don't like Henry and Elizabeth, so I just won't mention them. Perhaps this terrorist is just a wuss, which is why this particular technique of Ken's works on him.
I see your point on the reason behind needing to gut Madeline's quarters--especially if she thought her evaluation might not be stellar. She is just vindictive enough to wreak a whole lotta havoc.

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