MAAC attendance & AHY -- Fairfield Stags Hoops Forum

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Date Posted: 12:49:33pm 01/18/06 Wed,
Author: FU73
Subject: MAAC attendance & AHY

The two top teams in the MAAC would have a hard time filling AHY or even a 4000 seat home arena so far this year. AT home, Iona has played Fairfield(1977),Niagara(1711),Manhattan(2883) and Rider(2300). Manhattan has played George Mason(1977),Marist(1883), Fordham(2345)St.Francis((1752), St. Peter(1525),Rider(1497) and Siena(2143).

Marist, while not the top of the MAAC, has played Delaware(2307),Ohio(2463),Iona(2572), St. Bonnaventure(2438) and Canisius(1941). Their McCann Center Field House (3100) has been continually upgraded since it was built. From their website...."arguably, one of the loudest basketball facilities in the MAAC, McCann Center Field House provides a true home court advantage...enhanced seating along the North baseline and an imposing 19 foot high student section along the South baseline... for 2005 the student section and pep band will have seats located less than 6 feet from the baseline creating an imposing and loud student section" Also their athletics booster club, the Red Foxes Den has a special meeting area over looking the court for members to socialize, before and after games with other members and coaches. They seem to believe that a loud home court advantage, supported booster club and getting the students involved and as close to the action as possible is important for their program.

Maybe trying to build a 3100 seat first class on campus arena is the way to go for Fairfield too? Is back on campus and being consistently at the top of the MAAC and winning an automatic NCAA bid all that bad or should Fairfield be trying to move up and out of the MAAC? Maybe making the students and alumni a priority rather than trying to fill AHY, even with this year's reduced capacity should be part of the plan. Can Fairfield ever be able to fill AHY against MAAC teams? Unless all the OCC games at AHY are against UCONN, Duke and North Carolina, will the area college basketball fans ever come out to fill it?

AHY is a beautiful facility but is it right for Fairfield for all the home games? After the last five years, most everyone would agree that the marketing and promotion was not adequate to get the job done. However, will any new marketing and promotion, no matter how succesful the Stags become ever be able to fill AHY consistently?

It doesn't matter what we alumni think here on this board, as our views seem to be ignored and not solicited. It really depends on the University and what plan they have for the future but other than Siena in their Albany market at the Pepsi Arena could any MAAC or college team in this area fill AHY?

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Replies:

[> Re: MAAC attendance & AHY -- Paulie74, 01:40:12pm 01/18/06 Wed, [1]

All the points made here are absolutly right. But, we are putting the cart before the horse. Before you can decide what kind of facility you need, you need to understand your long term vision for the program. The powers in charge have not done so and put a resonable plan together. Until then, you have to stay at Harbor Yard. AH is in serious disrepair. Additionally, the handful of interested fans have been ignored and shunned (e.g. sixth man club and the passionate folks on this board.)

I'll say it again, as I have in the past, Fr. vA, when you do you communicate your position and vision clearly. By the way, Pete Gillen is available!!!!

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[> Re: MAAC attendance & AHY -- JoeStag, 06:41:46pm 01/18/06 Wed, [1]

FU73,

I agree that making the students and Alumni a priority is the right idea. And the only way to get them to buy into the right solution is to involve them in the process that decides what Fairfield basketball should be.

Choosing to build an on campus arena that is bigger than Alumni Hall is a huge decision, and that decision would not be based on basketball alone. It would have a major positive effect on the University, and would come with a major Cost. I agree with Paulie that this decision has to be part of a long term plan, not just for athletics but the University as a whole.

But just because we build it, that does not mean people will come. And while we all remember the glory days of Alumni Hall, the last 15 years at AH were dwindling crowds.... and Alumni got disconnected.... that is the real problem, not then facility.

And the facility does not create the excitement eitherU its the people, the fans. And if the University cannot get 1,000 Alumni to stand up and say.... I am committed, I will support Fairfield basketball, I will give my time, I will go to games because I want to see fellow-alums and get reconnected to the University and I will show may support by buying season tickets. If we cannot get that, then the university has to do some soul searching and WHY NOT.

A season ticket base is what is needed.... if we play at Alumni Hall, AHY or a new on-campus arena..... the University has to reconnect with its Alumni.

Build it and they will come..... does not work anymore.

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[> [> Re: MAAC attendance & AHY -- DitchMitch, 07:17:17pm 01/18/06 Wed, [1]

JoeStag,

Why do you think FU made the move to AHY? Your points are all pretty valid...attendance was not on an upswing at the time the decision was made. Did they choose AHY because it was cheaper than building a new facility (I'm sure it is), or upgrading AH? Did the University think it could replicate Siena's success? Was playing at AHY just too good an opportunity to pass up?

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[> [> Re: MAAC attendance & AHY -- FU73, 11:22:42pm 01/18/06 Wed, [1]

The University needs to reconnect with it's alumni and somehow reenergize it's students. I agree that the first step has to be to get our and their input for the future of Fairfield Athletics. Part of the reason that the University can't get 1000 alumni to stand up and commit is that it hasn't successfully reached out to the alumni and that should always be a priority.

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[> Re: MAAC attendance & AHY -- Staginthesun, 08:46:38pm 01/18/06 Wed, [1]

My prediction is that next year, the Stags return to Alumni Hall for a FEW early season, OOC games against the likes of Yale, St Francis and Fordham. Reason: to test the waters of an on campus facility vs. AHY; to build support among students; save money.

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[> [> Re: MAAC attendance & AHY -- StagNation, 09:37:37pm 01/18/06 Wed, [1]

What's our financial deal with AHY? If we were to play a few games at Alumni Hall next year, can they offer AHY to another school? I thought there was some sort of contract with the arena. If we only play 8 games there I would think they'd try to get another school (maybe SHU) to commit to 12. Also, if the women were to move back to campus, even for a few games, AHY would obviously lose (as reported here) $15k per night. So maybe we can't move games back to campus until our contract is up. Not sure we would want to risk losing the arena to a local foe.

Just wondering...

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[> [> [> Re: MAAC attendance & AHY -- Staginthesun, 10:24:05pm 01/18/06 Wed, [1]

Not sure of exact details, but the sum of $15,000 has been scoffed at by someone in the administration as "not credible."
No matter the price, an attendance figure of 750 for women is also inflated, according to my sources. therefore, look for the women to go back to AH and play doubleheaders at the Arena against top shelf opponents.
SHU could not draw as many as we do, so don't look for them to shell out the bucks.

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[> Re: MAAC attendance & AHY -- FU73, 11:00:37pm 01/18/06 Wed, [1]

I believe that it has been mentioned that this is the last year of the original 5 year contract with AHY. Hopefully, the University still will have time to consider all it's options when resigning. When renegotiating with AHY, I don't think that there are too many local colleges that will draw as even as much as Fairfield can. SHU has a hard enough time now in their building. Quinnipiac is building their own new basketball/hockey arena. If AHY wants college basketball, they don't have too many choices.

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[> [> Re: MAAC attendance & AHY -- fu88, 12:00:20am 01/19/06 Thu, [1]

women must go back to alumni thats obvious. the men will not go back to alumni unless its refurbished, and a lot of work be done to it. fairfield attendance on its worse day is still better than shu or or most mac schools on their best day, so don't worry about shu grabbing the headlines. we don't need ahy or a 5000 seat on campus arena. bet on a brand new 3000 seater with half the men's games there and the other half in ahy, and that is what should be written into the contract.

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[> [> Why did we move to AHY -- JoeStag, 08:25:20am 01/19/06 Thu, [1]

I think the main reason for going to Harbor Yard was to raise the level of our program. The decision at that time was AH or AHY, and when you consider the declining attendance at AH, not being able to schedule any decent teams (A-10 like) , and being able to attract better recruits. It also position us for a move to a bigger league..... i think thoise were the main reason.

I think we did use the Siena model of playing all the games there, as that was viewed as the best way to make it work. I think ther origianl thinking, and I know it was mine that if we could average around 1,800-2,200 at AH that we should be able to do 3,000-4000 for the average MAAC game and ore for special OOC games. There was a lot of excitement for AHY in general, and the thinking was that people would come out to see Mid Major college baskeball. But it did not happen even with a home NIT game and back to back 19 win seasons. And now a retooling season became a rebuilding season and a losing record and we see how dedicated the core Fairfield fans are.

Cost really is not an issue as the Cost to rent AHY is much cheaper than the interest on building a new on-campus arena. And Cost is equivalent to probably upgrading Alumni Hall. So really the Fairfield investment in Men's Hoops, while significant, is not as big as you would think.

It It was bold, risky move, that IMO, was good for the program. It defitely helped the schedule, it helped recruiting, and it was a bold move to put Fairfield in the PUBLIC eye as opposed to being a PRIVATE University. With that Public vew, came the Public allegations. It also showed that Fairfield was not prepared to do handle the Public relations and Marketing that needed to be done.

But the move was good for the Program because it raised the bar of expectations, and exposed what we need to do to move forward. But if we chose to build an on-Campus arena that would be a Major decision, and investment that would be great for Fairfield. IMO, if we did not go to AHY, we would not be talking about a new on-Campus arena at this time...... which I believe Fr. van Arx is considering. We woud be sitting here with a refurbished Alumni Hall with 2,200 capacity, and no scalability to move up or forward.

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[> [> [> Re: Why did we move to AHY -- campion109, 09:20:42am 01/19/06 Thu, [1]

Stay the course, Fairfield Faithful... Let's look at AHY as a long term prospect. We can complain about the lack of marketing, sponsorship, etc. but I firmly believe that the AHY will be a success in the years to come. Yeah, we're not going to build a 5,000+ consistent fan base overnight but, if we put a competitive team on the floor and actually win a game or two at home, the fans will come.

Is AHY perfect? No, not at all. There are no convenient bars/restaurants around the Arena for pre/post game. Three blocks away, almost every storefront is boarded up. I-95 is constantly packed with cars. Students actually have to make an effort to go there rather than stumble over to AH from their dorm rooms. When empty, AHY is not fun at all, it's cavernous and quiet. But, when there's a crowd (remember BC, Manhattan two years back), the Arena is ELECTRIC. We've had the opportunity to bring in first class teams and will most certainly continue to have that opportunity going forward only if we stay at AHY.

Rebuilding an Alumni Hall will not work. The town is pressuring the school about the amount of "buildable space" on campus and with the total capacity of the building. I think that derailed the project in the first place. Yeah, it would be great for the school to have a 5,000 seat hockey/basketball arena on campus but, for reasons that may be right or wrong, it most likely will never happen. Whether the town is being rational about it or not is irrelevant. Are they rational about their treatment of students off campus? No, and they never will be so we just have to live with it.

I think there a number of reasons we have not been able to consistently draw fans to AHY.

1) We haven't won a marquee game there yet. We came close against PC and BC but we still havent put up a BIG W there yet. I think one of the best games at AHY was either our comeback win against Niagara two years ago or GW the same year.

2) 20 years of Fairfield basketball history - Aside from our recent success, we haven't been the most successful program in the area for quite some time. So, my guess is that when the avg fan thinks of Fairfield hoops, they do not associate a overly successful program even in the face of our results of the recent past.

3) MAAC rivalries - Iona and Manhattan draw decently well because of the relative proximity of the schools. Siena draws well because their fan base is rabid and willing to drive to see the game. Aside from that, not taking away from any other program, there is just not much interest from the average fan to take in a game.

4) Scheduling - I know we tried this in the MAAC but, if we can combine the draw of local schools into weekend double-headers, we may be able to broaden interest in the games at the Arena. Why not have a MAAC game followed by an NEC game? Or a MAAC game followed by an Ivy League game!? It's OUR home court but I wouldn't mind sharing it once in a while.

5) Cost - I think this is HUGE. Lower the ticket costs, PLEASE. I am a season ticket holder but, for the average fan, $10 for a game is tolerable, $18 is not. I know the whole argument of "buy a cheap ticket and move to the center" but, I would believe that, if a family wants to take in a game, the mom and dad dont want to teach that type of lesson to their kids.

6) Convenience for students, etc. When I was there, the LAST thing I wanted to do was get on a bus for any reason. For home games, we would hang out in our dorm room until about 10 minutes before game time (maybe have a cocktail or two but you didnt read that here) and then head over to the game. After the game, we would raid the Stag-Her or the Deli. All walking, all SUPER convenient. Even then, though, I think maybe one game during my four years was a sell out. How do we fix this? Ask the students. Does the current bus schedule work? Are there pre-game organized events at the Arena or at the Levee? If not, open the Arena earlier to host student socials, etc.

So, what do we do? Should we ever get invited to join a stronger conference, will we be able to draw even though we'll be doormats for years?! No way. The attendance at the Fordham and St Joes' games suggest that we'll draw no better as a member of the A-10.

We stay the course. We, as alumni, get answers as to why our sports marketing and/or information department refuses to actually make an effort to inform the average fan (and the alumni) about what is going on. That, I believe, is one of the biggest mysteries on the planet. We have a new arena, competitive schedule, dedicated athletes, some recent success, but does anyone other than the members of this board know that? Aside from Cassavant, my guess is no.

It ain't gonna happen this year. We lost all momentum in the loss to St Joes. A potential 15-18 loss season isnt going to help the situation but, let's not get lost here. This should be looked at as a long term solution to increase the visibility of the school, program and conference and we need to look at it that way.

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[> [> [> [> Re: Why did we move to AHY -- Observer, 10:27:30am 01/19/06 Thu, [1]

The move to AHY was a good one, contingent on one detail: A top-tier MAAC program. Manhattan has become what Fairfield should have been. The Jaspers playing home games in AHY would draw fans. It's all about winning, getting to the NCAA tournament and making yourself visible. You build programs and enthusiasm about them through NCAA appearances - not 19 wins, not NIT, not finishing third in the MAAC. Sorry to burst everyone's bubble.

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[> [> [> [> Re: Why did we move to AHY -- Bridgeport, 10:48:11am 01/19/06 Thu, [1]

win
beat good teams
win the MAAC tourney
win the MAAC tourney again
become the talk of the town
get on tv
get on a stronger radio signal
the people in charge have to be PASSIONATE ABOUT WINNING---
THE PRESIDENT OF THE U HAS TO BE PASSIONATE ABOUT
WINNING and make sure that if you work at Fairfield YOU WILL BE PASSIONATE ABOUT WINNING
do the grass root thing, make it fun for the students to get on the bus----raise the minority population of the student body with qualified people ( 2% MORE ? )---the world is not white bread---
and win again. CREATE PRIDE.

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[> [> [> [> [> Re: Why did we move to AHY -- ghostman, 11:24:37am 01/19/06 Thu, [1]

Father von Arx is at the games wearing red - good start. How about the trustees/other higher ups/presidents circle getting to the games too? AHY is a big undertaking and needs to be supposted by the "the movers and shakers" of the university.

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[> [> [> [> Re: Why did we move to AHY -- QuinnipiacStagFan, 12:53:18pm 01/19/06 Thu, [1]

campion109,

Excellent Post, Excellent Points.. I fully agree..

QC Brave >>----->

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[> [> [> Re: Why did we move to AHY -- FU73, 10:06:39am 01/19/06 Thu, [1]

I believe that staying in the MAAC with it's automatic NCAA bid and a first class 3500 seat on campus arena for all women's games, volleyball and non draw men's games is the way to go. AHY should be used for OCC and draw games like Manhattan, Iona and Siena. However, that is only my opinion and none of this might ever happen. Joe Stag, Campion 109, Stagophile and all the rest of us here have our own views as alumni fans BUT the University doesn't seem to want or solicit these opinions as to what and where we think Fairfield athletics should be going. One only has to look at the number of alumni season tickets sold and the percentage of alumni donations to the Annual Fund to see how important the alumni are and can be. The points that Campion 109 brought up about scheduling, prices, costs, and rivalries are the type of input that the University should be looking for but isn't. I don't know if it was ego, arrogance or naivety on the part of past administrations but Fairfield now has the opportunity to change the way it looks at athletics and the role of alumni in it's success.

It has been said many times here and you see it in other MAAC boster clubs that a top priority is to energize the student fans and stay connected with alumni. Fairfield has not done either very well.

If and when the University releases it's vision and future plans for Fairfield Athletics, a key part needs to be a full time commitment to promote and market it to students, alumni and fans.

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[> [> [> Re: Why did we move to AHY -- Sobro, 11:19:05am 01/19/06 Thu, [1]

From what I'm still hearing, the town will not budge ONE SEAT on a new facility. IMO, you get a new facility, about the same capacity of Alumni Hall, the women play some games there and DH's at the Arena. The men won't return to campus.

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[> [> [> [> NEVER MOVE BACK to AHY unless a new 5k seat arena is built on Campus -- Antman, 11:24:06am 01/19/06 Thu, [1]

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[> [> [> [> [> NEVER MOVE BACK to AH unless a new 5k seat arena is built on Campus -- Antman, 11:24:57am 01/19/06 Thu, [1]

It should read AH

NEVER MOVE BACK to AH unless a new 5k seat arena is built on Campus

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[> [> Re: MAAC attendance & AHY -- Rave, 11:21:17am 01/19/06 Thu, [1]

Everything that I heard in this thread suggests that marketing, being fan conscious and winning are the key ingredients for success. ISN'T THE ANSWER OBVIOUS ?

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[> [> [> Re: MAAC attendance & AHY -- HoosierHusky, 10:46:17pm 01/19/06 Thu, [1]

As a UCONN and Butler U alum I enjoy keeping my Conn connections. I'm glad to see fans who still consider going to a game a worthwhile endeavor. Heck I'd always go to AH when I was home for Christmas. Saw Rik Smits one year. For what it's worth even a more "mid major", NCAA successful, big city in the Hoosier Basketball land like Butler has their attendance woes. Type in Butler basketball on Google and go to the "unofficial" page. Same concerns.

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