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Date Posted: 08:48:03am 11/30/05 Wed,
Author: StinkyCheese
Subject: Fordham & LaSalle-off the sMAAC Board
Subject: The Sorry, Sorry State of Fordham & LaSalle Hoops
After another Fordham Ram whipping at the hands of the "Lowly" (?) Siena Saints, I started reflecting on the gosh-awful decisions of the Ram & LaSalle Explorers to "move-up" into big time BB. The results speak for themselves:
As MAAC members, Fordham made the post-season (which is all anyone would care about anyway):
6 out of 9 years.
LaSalle made it 7 out of 9.
Now, after 10+ years of playing the fools in the A-10, neither one of these schools have made the post-season; not even ONCE! (Which is pretty difficult for Fordham to do with the NIT which would take ANY NY squad at .500).
The Ant-Hill developed gang on Rose Hill's record in the A-10 is: 39-121 (.244) in Conference Play and 86-201 (201 losses!!!!) overall. LaSalle is not much better with 53-107 in the A-10 (.331) and 111-180 (.381) overall.
Mis-managed by the Admin and airhead alumni supporters, these two teams only average about 2100-2200 attendees at home, which are certainly MAAC type numbers. Traditional local rivalries have been turned away, or at least de-emphasized, so really nobody cares. Various coaches with big dreams and statements have come and gone and the student quality of the recruits are the pits. (I think Fordham is only playing with a limited squad now because of all sorts of "eligibility issues") (Haven't past LaSalle players served jail-time?).
Too bad. These are really fine schools with great sports history. I hope for them that one day during our lifetime, their journey will finally end and they will be at peace with the nets.
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Re: Fordham & LaSalle-off the sMAAC Board -- Stagophile, 09:18:14am 11/30/05 Wed, [1]
Great post! It is interesting sometimes to read the posts of older Fordham alumni discussing the good ole days of Fordham basketball. I read a couple recently discussing how they missed the local rivalries (particularly Manhattan) and how every game was an event with alot of emotion. But, after the games students and players who knew each other from high school and the neighborhoods would get together and throw back a couple of beers. The younger alumni have no concept of this and quickly turn their noses up to playing the athletically and academically "lowly" likes of Manhattan and Iona. God forbid they play a school whose average SAT is below a 1200. (perhaps they should look at the average SAT score of LaSalle, Duquense and SBU). It is a shame what Fordham and LaSalle has become. I doubt they will return to the MAAC, but, if they had remained in the MAAC they certainly would have been the top teams in the MAAC and would have been dancing in March on consistent basis.
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Re: Fordham & LaSalle-off the sMAAC Board -- StinkyCheese, 12:31:52pm 11/30/05 Wed, [1]
No doubt about it, Fordham & Manhattan was always billed as "The Battle of Da Bronx" and the teams have played nearly 100 times in the past 100 years (the series is fairly equal too). Having grown up equi-distant to both schools (its even possible to walk to both, if you had a few hours), our neighborhood had kids that attended both schools. Play stickball in the AM, curse each other out at the games, and sit on the stoops at night singing doo-wops.
But Fordham is really twice the size of most MAAC schools in enrollment and really could have "moved-up" if their incompetent Administration really knew what they were getting into by just "switching" Conferences. They never invested in what it would take to compete. Since the surrounding neighborhood is the pits (forget Arthur Avenue, its 6 square blocks of tourists), they need much more than just A-10 status and "National" atmosphere to recruit kids. What's good about being in the A-10 to a possible recruit when no one attends the games and the team averages 20 losses a season? Hey, even the MAAC has TV contracts locally in NY Metro. Gonzalez in Riverdale, plus Saint John's cleans their clock constantly with local talent.
Maybe one day, someone will clean house in the Sports Administration area and get them back on track.
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Re: Fordham & LaSalle-off the sMAAC Board -- FUAlum, 12:12:52pm 11/30/05 Wed, [1]
Very good post. The problem is that neither Fordham or LaSalle made the commitment needed to play hoops at the Atlantic 10 level. You cannot compete with the Xavier's and the UMass's playing in those tiny, dingy gyms with the sub-standard facilities they have. Has anyone seen the Cintas Center that Xavier built? It's a palace, no wonder they recruit so well. Ditto for St. Louis, another Catholic school that's building a 12,000 seat arena right now. St. Joe's is the only school there that can get by without the gaudy facilities because they have a nationally known coach and far more fan support than LaSalle or Fordham. The Hawks get 4,000 plus a game every night.
Fordham and LaSalle must build the facilities or get out and rejoin the MAAC.
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Re: Fordham & LaSalle-off the sMAAC Board -- JoeStag, 12:52:40pm 11/30/05 Wed, [1]
I agree that Fordham and Lasalle did not put money into facilites to get them to A-10 standards, and that has hurt them. But both Fordham and Lasalle did not jump directly from the MAAC to the A10..... Fordham went to the Patriot and Lasalle went to MCC (a mideast conference). Both moves were horrendous decisions and downgraded their programs, and I bet they lost a lot of fans and interest in the program. If they would have moved directly from the MAAC they would have had a much better chance of being a success.
It is going to take them a while for them to recover, as Drexel has moved up to Lasalle's level, and Manhattan, Iona and Hofstra are considered the same level as Fordham. It will take a while for them to regain their fans and interest from recruits like it should be in teh A-10.
It was a sad day when both schools left the MAAC. Both schools showed a lack of leadership by leaving. They could have been Leaders in the MAAC and help bring in a Hofstra and a Drexel. How would everyone would have liked a league like:
Fordham
HolyCross
Lasalle
Fairfield
Manhattan
Iona
St Peters
Hofstra
Drexel
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Re: Fordham & LaSalle-off the sMAAC Board -- Stagophile, 12:59:00pm 11/30/05 Wed, [1]
Hofstra and Drexel? No, it should have been Siena and St. Joseph's. The MAAC could have been an amazing league based on natural rivalry and geographic proximity. Lost opportunity!!!
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Re: Fordham & LaSalle-off the sMAAC Board -- SonofDoc, 01:55:25pm 11/30/05 Wed, [1]
I believe when LaSalle left the MAAC, the MCC still had Xavier and Dayton, as well as Butler, St. Louis, Evansville, and Notre Dame (non-Football and Basketball sports). It was a nifty conference at the time that must have upgraded LaSalle.
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Re: Fordham & LaSalle-off the sMAAC Board -- JoeStag, 03:00:06pm 11/30/05 Wed, [1]
As soon as Lasalle joined the MCC, Xavier left in one year. Dayton and St Louis, Evansville did not join.... Dayton backed out at the last minute. The league was left with Loyola(Chi), Detroit, Butler and some Wisconsin schools. Decent schools, but Philly fans and recruits had absolutely no interest playing those schools. And that really hurt them as Lasalle previously had a great recruiting base in the strong Philly HS's and they had a coach, Speedy Morris, who had strong Philly ties, but was probably weak outside of Philly. Bottom line is that Lasalle lost their Philly base and had no base outside Philly.
I used to be a Lasalle Season ticket holder and it got so bad I just gave up..... they played unwatchable basketball.
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10+ years Though! -- StinkyCheese, 02:36:19pm 11/30/05 Wed, [1]
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Patriot League & MCC Conference switches ended TEN Years Ago!
Is it really possible that this is STILL the cause of their helplessness now? They should be on their third or fourth full recruiting class by now.
One of their biggest problems are the Hill & Derrick's recruits who only stay a year or two and transfer or drop out. So they are always rebuilding.
I think using the Patriot League excuse ten years later is not valid.
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