Re: German politics and culture part 2 -- ExUBF's Parlor

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Date Posted: 08:42:10 11/13/04 Sat
Author: Shane
Subject: Re: German politics and culture part 2
In reply to: Tony Lang 's message, "Re: German politics and culture part 2" on 07:24:35 11/13/04 Sat

>Shane.
> I have read your comments with interest, on this
>subject and the American election.
> I would guess you are from the USA.

Yes, I am from Los Angeles, California. Adopted home of Arnold Schwartzenegger

I can see that
>you are very anti Democrat and very pro Republican.
> A lot of us who read this web-site are not from the
>US, and people like me do not know the difference
>between Republicans, Democrats, Trotskytes, and
>members of The Flat Earth Society. So in your
>analysis of the two party's it is difficult for me to
>say that you are wrong, you may be right.

Yes, I am more anti-Democrat then pro-Republican. The Republicans have done some things that I disagree with. There has been a huge shift in American politics towards Republicans. Europeans seem to have a sterotypical view of Americans and don't seem to grasp why Americans have embraced Republicans. I get the feeling from your and others posts that you think Americans and particulary Republicans are a bunch of right wing nuts that want to bring back slavery, and set up some sort of religious theocracy. I had to laugh at your comparison of right wingers to Apartheid South Africans. If you really believe this, you have complete misunderstanding of Americans. BTW, did you know that Bush got 45% of the Hispanic vote.(Hispanics are the fastest growing minority in America) With the exception of Clinton,(who was Centrist) Democrats have continually lost power in the U.S. I have attempted to explain to you why this is, from an American's point of view. It is probably a point of view you don't get in Europe. Everything I have said about the Democrats is true, and I welcome a challenge from anyone who can point to a falsehood.

>Chris says that you have a very black and white
>opinion of things.
> Yes, you do and to the outsider your political
>opinions seem to lack the ring of truth because of
>this. This might not be the case, but that is the
>opinion they create with me.

As I said to Chris, I believe some things are black and white and some things are not. It depends on the issue. No, the war, is not a black and white issue and reasonable people can disagree. I think it is not so much that my opinion is black and white as it is a strong opinion. But if I gave you an NPR opinion it would be boring.

>When you asked Chris in one of your letters to have a
>more open view, I just had to laugh, it was so funny.
> I think that you have not grasped the fact that you
>have become a very welcome contributer to a web site
>where not all the readers are from the USA, and these
>black and white opinions might be acceptable in
>Birmingham Alabama, but cause amusement inBirmingham
>England. We have big cultural differences.

Yes, we do have cultural differences. You say my opinions are not acceptable. Well, what are you saying? You are free to agree or disagree but all opinions should be welcomed and considered in the market place of ideas.

>In England we have three main political partys, and
>members of these just agree to differ in their
>opinions. In general they get on fine, apart from the
>few inevitable extremists and mis-fits.
>Your opinions of the democrats makes me think that
>they come from a different planet, evil children of
>Satan, etc etc.

Again, everything I said about the Democrats is true, I challenge you or any American posting on this website to find a falsehood in my statements regarding the Democrats. I have also attempted to explain American disallusionment with the Democratic party by LEFTIST thinkers! In fact I have quoted more leftist thinkers then right wing thinkers!

> I am sure that if I came to America I
>would come to the conclusion that this is not the case.
>In Britain the church gains quite a lot of converts
>from what you would call the left. They seem to be
>impressed by the social gospel. I was one of this
>group, and came into the church partly through those
>dreadful left wing sociology lessons at university. (
>Yes this is true)
>The church over here has had some profitable pickings
>from the left of centre here, and has a lot of good
>relations with them.

OK, thats fine. If they are feeding the poor and the homeless that is very Christ like. But there is more to the gospel then just feeding people.

> You might call them communists.
I don't know if I would call them communist. Karl Marx thought religion was the 'opiate' of the people. He attempted to construct an atheistic and humanistic society. He also believed in violent revolution. Do they advocate these things?

>We have noticed that right wing conservative Americans
> along with former Aparteid South Africans tend to
>call anyone who dissagrees with them communist.
>I am not a commie.

Tony, I have not called you or Chris a communist. I don't know you well enough to make such a statment. From your posts I don't think you are. I do know about American politics. Most(not all) democrats have a hostility towards religion and towards the bible.

>I think what the religious right is doing in America
>is building a wall between the right wing and the
>left.

Tony, ever since this election. The left elite has come out and called Americans that voted for Bush nuts, racists and wackos. They have called us wackos that live in "Jesusland". Is this right? Is this not 'dividing' America?

>I am worried that the religious right will make
>it very difficult to evangelize outside their own
>narrow political outlook, ie amongst Democrats. This
>is because of their self rightous exclusive attitude.
>These opinions are not mine, I have to admit I copied
>them.

I think it is a wrong opinion! The Christian right does a good job of evaglizing with the gospel. The Christian right is not trying to convert Democrats into Republicans, but unbelievers into believers. In fact, churches in America are non-profit organizations and are not allowed to promote one political party over the other. Although churches CAN discuss moral issues.

>I took them from an article in a Christian magazine
>that I read this morning while I am back in England
>for the Ramadan holiday. This article was written by
>a visiting American Christian speaker commenting about
>the divisions that the religious right is causing over
>there.

Tony, I would say some division IS good. The church should be a light to society and not just conform to the moral decay of the world. This is what many(not all) leftists want. They want the church to STOP saying abortion is the taking of human life. They want the church to stop saying the bible is the word of God. They don't want the church to be a moral conscience....they(the left) want to decide such things. I think they are mad that we Christians won't roll over and play dead.

>Shane I dont want to appear antagonist towards you, I
>am glad that you are writing here. I think that you
>and I are at different ends of the political spectrum.

This is true, but I don't hate you. In fact, if you ever visit Los Angeles let me know and you can stay at my home! I had a roomate in college who had political beliefs very similar to yours. We became best friends despite such differences.
> That is not important, because I find people who
>always agree with me to be boring. Diversity of
>thought is what I need , want and enjoy, I just want
>you to be as effective as possible, because in Christ
>there is room for everybody, right and left. (I need
>people from time to time to tell me I'm crazy)

Yes, I agree.

Shane

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Replies:

Re: German politics and culture part 2 -- Tony Lang, 06:32:51 11/15/04 Mon
- Re: German politics and culture part 2 -- SHane, 08:27:02 11/15/04 Mon