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Date Posted: Wednesday, February 03, 05:08:39am
Author: Gabs
Author Host/IP: 121-57.5-85.cust.bluewin.ch / 85.5.57.121
Subject: omg!

Sayid! :( Claire! :)

Loved Ben's "I'm sorry, who are you?"

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[> Uh... watch more! -- Lij (Spoilicious LOST Talk), Wednesday, February 03, 05:39:36am [1] (ca-02.cinergycom.net/216.135.2.29)

Alternate universes?

Did alternate universes intersect on the flight over the ocean on flight 815? One in which they made it to LA, and the other what we have been watching all these years? Or is it some trick of time and space that created alternatives. "It worked." Did Juliet know the island sunk into the sea? That she only need die to yet live again in the alternate universe?

It seems that all is fated to end in LA for the people on 815. One way or another. And yet they have acts to play out on the island, because.... "they're coming." If this is going to end by being a prequel to "V" I'm going to be sorely disappointed. I gotta say, seeing Jack and Locke together at the LA airport and Jack telling him nothing couldn't be fixed drove me to tears. And Jack in the temple though using his science trying to save Sayid, it was yet the spirit that drove him.

Yet Boone was without his sister and Charlie yet lives. And where did Desmond go to? Along with Jack's father's corpse and Locke's knives? Crossovers into the alternate Island LOST universe? Claire carjacked in a cab by Kate. But where really is Claire, with her/Jack's father? Is dead Christian Shepherd with Jacob or The Man In Black? Where are their loyalties and what of Claire's child, Aaron, will he return (a time traveller himself) to take Jacob's place?

So the man in black is the smoke monster parading as Locke (can Locke yet be resurrected in the spring were the spirit be willing?). Certainly Just how long has that temple and thesee other-others been there? I guess they are those who Jacob has found to be worthy throughout the years. Thus too, those of 815 who are still in play, they were tapped on the shoulder by Jacob. So too Sayid, and evidently he has a major role to play.

And finally... Soren Kierkegaard's Fear and Trembling (it was the French translation, Crainte et Tremblement in the cave), which presents a provocative interpretation of the Binding of Isaac by Abraham story as told in Genesis Chapter 22, and uses the story as an occasion to discuss fundamental issues in moral philosophy and the philosophy of religion, such as the nature of God and faith, faith's relationship with ethics and morality, and the difficulty of being authentically religious. Several story lines are explored in which Abraham killed Isaac.

So too is LOST a test of faith? To be ordered by your god and follow with intent to do something beyond what should be your comprehension of good, to that of evil. Already Ben has failed that test and killed Jacob. And others have succumbed in a like manner and been truly LOST.

Kierkegaard also considers a "Knight of Faith" who reliquishes everything having the faith (in the absurd) that he will get it back and contrasts him with the "knight of infinite resignation" who gives up everything for the infinite and yet mourns his loss for eternity. Jacob is that Knight of Faith and the Man in Black/Monster is the Knight of Infinite Resignation? Or the other way round... or something else? I don't know....

Well..... just thoughts running around my head after watching LOST this morning.... (out of San Francisco!).

...

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[> I've been really sick and not posting much... -- sparkle, Friday, February 05, 08:47:01am [1] (71-14-185-212.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com/71.14.185.212)

....but these eps. blew my mind. The only thing I know for sure is that Sawyer REALLY wants to kill Jack!

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[> Still processing LAX but here's a copy of myfirst reactions posted on LJ -- Chani, Friday, February 05, 01:31:59pm [1] (212-198-162-88.rev.numericable.fr/212.198.162.88)

What I liked:

Seeing Desmond near Jack on the plane. It's always good to see Desmond. And he's still a wild card in that universe since he vanished. He was reading a book by Salman Rushdie about the power of imagination. Is it a clue that the new flasbacks are just a fantasy?

The Locke/Jack scene in the airport. At least! I mean, if there's a character who could do soemthing for Locke it's Jack since he is a spinal surgeon. It's about time they adressed it.

Terry O'Quinn stole every scene he was in. He is amazing. I loved him as Locke (my favourite character) and now that he is Not!Locke he has new facial expressions and the look in his eyes is quite threatening.

I liked that Oceanic airline lost the coffin with Christian Sheperd's corpse and Locke's knives, and above all I liked how Not!Locke behaved holding a knife while Locke's corpse lay on the sand. It was a nice echo. The knives and the coffin/corpse seem to be an intersection between the two universes. Besides Jack put his father's shoes on dead Locke feet in the flashforwards.

I like the fact that the former stewardess keeps offering drinks even in the temple!

I liked Toshiro Mifune (I know it's not him).

What Non!Locke said about being a "who " not a what was intriguing. And he said he wanted to go home...Mmmm

I also like the fact that they didn't just do a reset. I guess there are various possibilities about the parallel universes that seem to unfold before our eyes.

I liked what Non!Locke said about being a "who " not a what was intriguing. And he said he wanted to go home...Mmmm.

1. The bomb that Juliet triggered in the 70's created a sort of quantum state allowing two simultaneous states of the island like Shr�dinger's cat in the box.
2. The flashbacks aren't real, it's all a fantasy (but then why did dead Juliet say "it worked"?)based on "what if"...a fantasy for the audience's pleasure.
3. The islandverse, which includes all the flashforwards we got and the return of Jack/kate/Sayid/Hugo and dead Locke, is a fantasy and the flashbacks we now see are actually the reality in which the plane never crashed. But there's the shot of the statue under the sea...
4. The islandverse and the oceanicverse are both fantasies. Juliet died and woke up in the reality hence her "it worked", they all have to die to wake up and go home, escape the island for good(hence Charlie's line about being meant to die...Charlie didn't die and lost his freedom). But if they wake up the fantasy people who live in the temple would stop existing.
5. It's all a fantasy that J Jacob (Abrams) created to keep The Man in Black captive. Who's the anonymous guy who's using Locke's guise? A personification of the audience maybe, and we'll be released once the show is over...

Things that I am not sure about or am confused about or that I disliked or that make no sense at all:

So Jack, Hugo, Miles, Sun, Sayid, Jin, Kate, Sawyer and dying Juliet were back to the future, a future that is posterior to the destruction of the Swan, and that seems to be same timeline as the one when Not!Locke killed Jacob(hence Jacob telling Hugo that he died not so long ago)...Okay, but the van being back with them was a bit too much! The van should be there! Of course without the van they couldn't have given Sawyer and Juliet a last moment...which I would have prefered.

I didn't like the faux suspens about Claire whom we didn't see on the plane but who was in the taxi that Kate hijacked.

I didn't like how Juliet's death opened the way for a new Jack/Kate/Sawyer triangle. Not interesting!

I still don't like Jack. There's something about the character that gets on my nerve. I read that the writers consider him the core of the show...well, not for me!

Not sure I liked Sayid's resurrection, even though it echoed former resurrections (Mikhail's for instance, but also Locke after Ben shot him)and it carried on the theme of the healing island. Of course the temple bath is an interesting rewriting of the myth of the Fountain of Youth. A story of the "Water of Life" appears in the Eastern versions of the Alexander romance, which describes Alexander the Great and his servant crossing the Land of Darkness to find the restorative spring. Now we know why Richard Alpert didn't age, how young Ben was saved after Sayind had shot him and why the island healed both Locke and Rose. The idea of a curative water is a recurring theme in many mythologies. In the Christian's one there's the account of the Pool of Bethesda in the Gospel of John, in which Jesus heals a man at the pool in Jerusalem. The native stories about the curative spring were related to the mythical land of Bimini or Beniny, a land of wealth and prosperity. The spring was purportedly located on an island called Boinca.
In the episode, the fact that the water of life became red seems to be an obvious hint at the myth of the Holy Grail, with Jacob being a new avatar of Jesus. Jacob's body disappeared in the fire but somehow bled through the pool in the temple.

Methinks that Jacob is the island so there would be a parallel between his murder and Juliet triggering the bomb that destroyed the island.

I hope that the show won't stick too close to the Christian gospel.

The ashes thing bothers me. In earlier season, the ashes were used around the cabin in which Jacob was supposed to live, the cabin where Ben led John to see Jacob and where Locke heard a voice asking him for help, the cabin where Ilana and her boys were looking forJacob as well. Now it seems that the ashes are a barrier against the smoke monster...holding it back. So who did stay in the cabin? Was it Jacob? If it were jacob, as ben seemed to think at the time, why did he need to protect himself from the Smoke Monster (or rather if the Smoke Monster could have hurt Jacob why would Man in Black need Ben to do the dirty job?)? So was it the Man in Black aka Not!Locke that actually inhabited the cabin? I'm tempted to say yes given what we saw and given that Ilana said that someone else had been using the cabin...but we also saw the smoke monster on the island several times since season 1, so if Man in Black and Smoke Monster are the same, it doesn't make any sense.

What about Rose, Bernard and Vincent? Should't they be back to the future too?

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[> And other ideas..... -- Lij, Saturday, February 06, 02:31:33am [1] (ca-02.cinergycom.net/216.135.2.29)

Could be Jesus. With the cast as Jacob's/Jesus' apostles or rather just disciples. Jacob's appearance to Hurley as the appearance of Jesus to the two disciples (who were not apostles) on the rode to Emmeus. Giving those two/Hurley a message concerning the apostles - ie those at the temple.

But that would mean one was a Judas, I guess that was Ben. Ben killed Jacob, simply a more overt act than Judas who betrayed Jesus leading to his death. Who denied Jesus/Jacob, who is Peter? Perhaps Locke himself as the Man in Black/Smoke Monster/Devil had said even as Ben killed Locke, Locke was wondering why, what's it all about, or something like that.

Or maybe Peter is Jack. Sayid is Lazarus? Surely, he will smell.... Kate is Mary Magdelene? Or Claire? Are we going Da Vinci Code all over Lost?

It's interesting that they are two possibilities, two universes so to speak. I think what good they do in the LA one might translate to what they do in the LOST one. I am rather interested in seeing what happens to Claire in LA and also LOST. Will there really be a family there in California to take care of her baby (was the Aussie soothsayer's/medium's message nothing but a fraud)? Or will she even get to find out now that Kate car-jacked the cab she was in.

And what happens if there are two Aarons in the world? Or will there be? Perhaps there has to be? One good, one evil Aaron. It might have something to do with the soothsayers message (or was he just a fraud?) that he gave Claire about raising her own baby. (Ok.... do Claire and Kate go bisexual and raise Aaron together while marrying during the gay-marriage window of 2008? Squirreled away on some mountain-top commune to keep Kate away from the long arm of the law?)

Questions... questions... ideas that could even lead to a sequel!!

...

Or possibly it's the other way around....

I was going to say one universe is good, the other evil. But, no.... not from what I saw of Jack's attitude towards Locke in the LA universe. I was going to say it would be the evil one, because Claire might raise Aaron there. But maybe the LOST universe is the evil one because now Aaron is in the hands of Claire's mother.

Maybe the LOST universe is the evil one.... maybe the Man in Black, Smoke Monster, Faux-Locke comes to rule that one. Do the ones who are "they're coming" bind him there to rule? Might be that those who now find themselves in the LOST universe are to be permanently engaged in a battle between his evil and their perceived good. Thus the show ends with them "Locke'd" in a loop on the island, forever in conflict.

Why does the Man in Black, Smoke Monster, Faux-Locke burn the bodies he kills? Is it because they can be resurrected in the spring? (And what is the significance that the spring is no longer clear? Jacob's death?).

I am loaded with questions.

...

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