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Date Posted: 03:18:56 04/05/08 Sat
Author: anyasbuttmonkey *never let it be said i ain't organized!*
Subject: He That Believeth In Me: Discussion Thread
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I have to gather my thoughts on this one for a while. -- sparkle, 15:06:56 04/05/08 Sat [1]
There were a lot of issues to deal with in this one. Fantastic episode IMO though!
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Re: He That Believeth In Me: Discussion Thread -- Chani, 17:44:45 04/05/08 Sat [1]
I've jus seen it and will have to watch it again before I can do a proper review, but I loved the battle at the beginning, the shot of the Cylon's blood splashing Kara's viper, and I found the scene of Anders facing the Cylon really super cool !
Sam has never been a favourite of mine but he played my favourite parts here, from the beginning to the Cylon Circle Meeting to his speech to Kara. He deserves better than Starbuck.
Not too sure about Baltar's new faith though and the miracle (even though it's a nice echo of the other miracle of the episode, that is Kara). Yet the "praying scene" was funny and it's also funny that he's kinda living again what he went through at the beginning of season 3 on the Cylon basestar but this time with a human harem. I expect a threesome soon...
Also I liked the irony of the situation, everybody being wary and intrigued by Starbuck's return, including our four closet-Cylons! Oh and Saul's analysis on Boomer compared to his! He should discuss this with Athena.
Does Adama have two XOs now? What is Helo's function?
BTW not enough Helo and very little Athena.
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Agreed, not enough of the Fighting Agathons! -- anyasbuttmonkey, 00:58:37 04/06/08 Sun [1]
As far as I'm aware, Helo was re-instated as XO in Crossroads because Tigh went nutbar on the stand at Baltar's trial... while Tigh may be the XO in all other capacities, Helo is technically the official XO. At least until they say otherwise (seriously, he'll be Head Chef or something next week. Somebody's gotta peel potatoes since Kendra's long dead!)
I found the Baltar storyline intriguing, but the tone didn't quite fit the rest of the episode I thought. It was sorta jarring, to me anyway. I loved that Head!Six was wearing that coat, though - should the wardrobe change concern us at all?
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Re: Agreed, not enough of the Fighting Agathons! -- Chani, 10:23:32 04/06/08 Sun [1]
I noticed the coat too! She was so business-like. She still wears red but non longer represents Baltar's libido.
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Re: He That Believeth In Me: Discussion Thread -- Esmerelda, 21:34:13 04/05/08 Sat [1]
The theme of this episode was definitly faith. Faith in God and faith in Kara, hence the title I guess.
I really enjoyed the Baltar plot, it was an great mix of comedy and more serious issues, which highlighted what makes Baltar such a great character, he's not an evil man, he's just an extremly weak one. I particularly enjoyed him asking why God would demand a child's life yet let him live. Plus, when Baltat's looking at you like you're a crazy person, you've got problems.
In regards to Kara, I liked how Laura, the religious leader, had no faith it was really Kara, yet the aeithistic Adamas both wanted to believe in her.
Couple of other things, loved Adama and Lee's version of 'I'm sorry', 'Me too' and found Anders being completly ineffectual (can't shoot in a viper, can't take out a guard' completly hilarious.
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When was Anders trying to take out a guard? -- anyasbuttmonkey, 00:54:24 04/06/08 Sun [1]
Did I miss something? Poor Anders, can't catch a break. Come over here, Sammy, I'll look after you...
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Re: When was Anders trying to take out a guard? -- Esmerelda, 12:10:46 04/06/08 Sun [1]
When Kara took out one of the marine guard Anders tried to stop the other firing on her, and came off the worse for it, it was comedy *gold*.
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I caught that the second time around... -- anyasbuttmonkey, 14:32:31 04/06/08 Sun [1]
But, being the great Anders apologist I am, I look at it as him just wanting to stop her from shooting Kara, which he did :)
One thing that annoyed me, though, is Ander's leg - it was still gimpy in Crossroads Part 2, and in the big "previously on" section... so why was he walking normally for the first part of this episode? There's no way he should've been allowed in a Viper with a dodgy leg.
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Like sparkle, I need to gather my thoughts... -- anyasbuttmonkey, 00:55:50 04/06/08 Sun [1]
But I can say that I was left the feeling that, while a lot happened (particularly pre-credits - seriously, I've never wanted to light up a cigarette more than that!), not a lot happened, if you know what I mean. Which disappoints me because we've been waiting about seven-hundred years for this *damn you SciFi!*
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I'll just copy and paste my journal entry on the subject... -- anyasbuttmonkey, 15:39:55 04/08/08 Tue [1]
Two things before we get into this - 1) It's become clear to me that I'm somewhat of an Anders apologist, I frakkin' love the man (I'll hold my hand up and say that 65% of that is because Michael Trucco is a fine piece of ass) and you'll rarely hear me say a bad word against him, unless we're talking about his brainpower (his real brain, not his man-brain. I'm sure that works perfectly). 2) In stark contrast, I cannot stand Apollo. I realise this puts me in a minority here, but sometimes I just want to smack his self-righteous, judgemental face in. This wasn't an episode where he was staggeringly obnoxious or anything, I just wanted y'all to know :)
So! Overall, I was left somewhat underwhelmed by "He That Believeth In Me", but not because - as I mistakenly stated before - nothing really happened. Indeed, a lot of shit went down, just not stuff I personally care about. After the Giant Space Battle Of It's Our Last Season So Let's Blow This Budget (I could make a comment about how Anders saved the entire fleet from certain doom, but I won't. Yet ;D), we were left with two storylines - Kara and Baltar. I'm certainly intrigued by Kara's storyline, but aside from a few surface details (her ship's brand new, she has photos but no telemetry), nothing really was learnt in this episode. I'm wondering, though, if the eye of Jupiter (not the mandala in the show - the actual eye of Jupiter, the planet) will turn out to be important in terms of how Kara got into our solar system. It certainly bears a striking resemblance to the mandala pattern from Season 3, and she made special mention of remembering "a gas giant with rings" (which, of course, could be any of the four, but I'd lay claim on Jupiter if I were a betting man). The cliffhanger was lame, though - we all know Kara won't shoot the President (at least not to kill), although I will tip my hat to them if she actually does. That truly would be a twist. But on the whole, there was nothing I wasn't expecting to happen in regards to Kara's return. Nice that it brought the Adamas back together somewhat, even if Lee wants to stick it to the old man just a little bit longer in search of a better storyline (If Romo Lampkin's not involved, I 100% don't care about Lee's seventy-thousandth existential crisis).
As for the Baltar storyline... The tone didn't gel with the rest of the episode, for me anyway. I wish we had some more background info on how this cult started, but hopefully that will be rectified down the line. Nice to see Connor back, even if it amounted to his pretty face getting ten shits beaten out of it. On the whole, I found the whole storyline uneven, although it did give us one tasty morsal - we've now got a whole movement within the fleet of people who have (knowingly or not) accepted the Cylon God as the One True God. Surely a cause for concern, no? Oh, and I was talking with esmerelda last night, and while there are plenty of easy wanks to come up with to explain it away, I'm still not buying the fact that there's a whole unused compartment - big enough to fit a cult in - on the Galactica. And even if there is, I have a hard time thinking Adama would let it slide so easily (especially as it seems to have been amassing for a few weeks at least - wouldn't it have been mentioned last season?). I'm gonna need an answer to that soon, show!
On to the random notes... Roslin's staying in Adama's quarters? Genius. Can we please have another family-meal scene a la Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down?
Tory Update: She still hasn't found that elusive hairbrush, but at least she's had some sleep.
Anders was quite smooth in trying to talk some answers out of Kara (before she went batshit and beat up the guards, anyway) by the memory wall, it almost makes up for the fact that he nearly blew his cover over the Viper comms by holding the on button while he repeated a Tigh-style mantra. Still, he's hot, so he gets a pass. And I'm definitely coming down on the side of the fence that his inability to shoot the Cylon Raider was programming rather than sheer ineptitude. But then you knew that already ;)
I love that Tigh is an absolute grouch when it comes to being a Cylon - knowing that Michael Hogan was extremely grouchy about it too makes it all the funnier.
There's been some discussion elsewhere about the changed opening (no "They Have A Plan" this season), but I'm agreeing with some of the clever sparks at Television Without Pity - with two different factions of Cylons, saying "They have A Plan" only opens questions as to who's plan it is. I reckon once we find out who the remaining Cylon is, we'll get back to that plan of theirs :)
Helo, Athena and Caprica really need a storyline already. And can we clear up, once and for all, just who the frak is the XO and the hell is the CAG? Even Gaeta's exasperated.
I still miss the Cylon basestar storylines, but I'm hoping that next week's episode - titled Six Of One, so I think we can guess who'll feature prominently - will rectify that. Goddamn I miss Cavil and Leoben!
Speaking of, I read an interesting spec about the Final Five... What if there are six of them? As in, we're assuming the split in the Cylons went 7 - 5, but what if it was an even 6 - 6? And one of our Super Seven is an undercover Fiver? Naturally, I'm thinking Cavil, but who knows...
Anyhoo, a strong episode, but not enough kick for me to make it a total winner. I would say that Six Of One should be a good one, but it's written by Michael Angeli, so who knows what could happen?
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I've watched the episode again -- Chani, 16:47:07 04/09/08 Wed [1]
I really love the battle at the beginning. The effect Sam had on the Cylon raiders, that was unexpected and promising. It reminded me of the mini series when the Cylons kinda shut down the human ships that were all connected, all but the Battlestar Glactica. Sam must have sent a message and the Cylons pulled out. I think that the Final Five have access to a program that controls the other Cylons. Or it's just that the raiders ran away from a Fiver just like they have to kepe their thoughst off the Final Five, as Caprica said. They are programmed not to think of them. The Final Five are taboo and sacred.
And Sam IS a better person than Starbuck!
Who's the He that Believeth from the title and who's Me ? I think He is Adama...and Me is Kara. Roslin keeps saying it's a Cylon trick and all the facts seem to make her point so the only thing left is faith. Adama either believes in Kara or not. I think he believes in her but he couldn't risk the fleet on his feelings.
Of course the title could refer to the God that the Cylons worship, to Baltar's conversion and the fact that being a role model he may be leading his followers to believe in One god instead of praying the Lord of Kobol.
I liked how Doctor Baltar felt embarrassed by the Gaius Cult and ill at ease among "his followers", he is a scientist after all, but I ddin't like Gaius' sudden speech of faith("please God...how can you take him and let me live...I'm selfish and weak, etc.") in the end and the consequent miracle concerning the sick boy.
However, as I said above, the first "praying scene" was funny, revisiting the old comedy tricks from season. Also Baltar and his harem made me think of a historical character that isn't well known, John of Leyden (Jan Bockelson) also known as The King of the Last Days, who led the Anabaptists in Münster.
I hope that he is not slowly turning into a true believer and a prophet. It's much more interesting if he is just in survival mode again, adpating while trying to be a good person.
As for Baltar getting rid of the Jesus look...it could be significant. I'm more still convinced that Caprica will be the Christ that will save them all (except that in her case it's going to prove that she's turned human, not god!), not Baltar.
The scene in which Roslin told Bill and Lee that Kara could have been a Cylon from the beginning was neat given that Tory, Tigh and Tyrol were there. Saul and Tory were behing them, Saul was looking away, Tory had an empty look...The Chief was the only one who seemed to cope and act in a normal way.
The Final Four were definitely the most interesting characters of the episode. It seems that Tory is still processing the truth while Tyrol has taken it and is calm, almost relieved to know the truth (after all he already went through a crisis during season 2). I guess we'll see more about where they stand in upcoming episodes. Sam and Tigh are both afraid and struggling. Tigh imagining that he might shoot Adama was a terrific scene (and he shot him in the eye, the same eye he lost! "An eye for an eye"! Saul is still going Old Testament) which foreshadowed his analysis on Boomer compared to his situation! Saul claims he has free will (I love his "those bastards can't program me to help them. No way!"). He should discuss this with Athena!
The title works for him too. He's loyal and will do his duty (he called himself XO while Helo was still doing the job) no matter what he is, because Bill Adama believes in him...which echoes what Roslin said last year about Helo and Adama having faith in Sharon Agathon.
I think that Saul is going to live in denial for a while, knowing what he is yet refusing to consider himself a Cylon, and being more a Cylon-hater than never while the others will accept their nature and tried to be accepted. Lee's speech about Zak and "what if he had been a Cylon" seems to open a door for them.
I haven't much to say about Starbuck. The surnatural element of her return (not a scratch on her viper as if it has been downloaded and re-made on a Resurrection Ship like a Cylon!) , the effect every jump has on her, it isn't quite my cup of tea. I got more annoyed than intrigued. Besides I'm a bit tired of seeing confused-lost-messed-up Kara. Unlike many fans Kara isn't a character that I find very interesting...
In other news, Lee is going to work in the government...with Zarek perhaps? :- )
Because the Fifth one must be Zarek...unless it's Romo the lawyer ?
Not the most brilliant episode but a good season opening...
Still not enough Helo and very little Sharon! ;- )
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