| Subject: I'm not bitter |
Author:
Ben
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Date Posted: 10/ 3/04 2:39pm
In reply to:
Duane
's message, "OK, OK..." on 10/ 3/04 3:46am
>His website doesn't offer much more detail than
>he offered during the debate. His "4 point plan" on
>the website was:
>
>
>1) Launch and Lead a new Era of Alliances
>
>2) Modernize The World's Most Powerful Military To
>Meet New Threats
>
>3) Deploy All That Is In America's Arsenal
>
>4) Free America From Its Dangerous Dependence On
>Mideast Oil
>
>
>OK - point 1 is still just, "Make friends."
Important because Bush hasn’t seen the importance of this. Again, please don’t think I think American politics should be dictated by what “France” thinks. But I do think proceeding unilaterally should be done with more care than Bush gave it. One point you haven’t addressed is one that Kerry brought up in the debate… the issue of rushing into Iraq. Kerry agreed, as most people did, that Sadaam was a threat that had to be dealt with. But why right then? Why not use diplomacy if that’s what the U.N. wanted? At least for a while longer, since Sadaam wasn’t proven to pose any immediate threat? The problem is not that we went into Iraq… it’s that we went there in such a hurry.
I think that modernizing the military is important in light of Bush’s administration because he tends to rely more on older methods of warfare. Now, this may or may not be the best way… many people say the more people, the better, etc. but that still may be Kerry’s view for whatever reason.
Point #3 I admit is kind of lame. That’s what Bush is doing, and that’s part of the problem.
Point #4 I think is crucial. Republicans are known for not caring about the environment… did you know that Jimmy Carter installed solar panels on the White House, and then as soon as Ronald Reagan took over, he had them removed? That makes me want to kick him in the nuts. But he’s dead. So I won’t. But anyway, Kerry is saying he will make it a priority to work on alternative methods of fuel, which is one reason I like Democrats. I think burning fossil fuels is ultimately going to destroy our planet. And those poor, disturbed remains of all those fossils! What of that?
You can see how my analysis of these points, from a perspective of “giving Kerry the benefit of the doubt” is much more friendly than yours.
>I have specifically researched John Kerry's views and
>plans, and have found that he has not made any
>definite plans for anything.
At least you’ve honestly researched what he’s saying. That’s respectable.
>Seriously. Unless there's another, more definitive
>source than www.johnkerry.com
I think this message board is really the ultimate source for all information, so just look here for the final word (vote Kerry!).
>Actually, to be fair, Bush's plan is this:
>
>1) Build Iraqi armed forces able to handle security
>threats by itself
>2) Rebuild Iraq's infrastructure
>3) Don't leave until the Iraqis have their own country
>under control
Not a bad plan, admittedly. My problem with Bush is not his current plan for Iraq, but the fact that he is the one who got us there, and I’m afraid he will get us into other similar situations.
>Kerry's prospective cabinet are all people he has
>access to NOW. They're the SAME people who'll be
>helping him if we elect him. Why couldn't he just ask
>them now?
Well, you may be right on this. I don’t know enough about how the system works. In my mind, Kerry’s cabinet doesn’t have access to the same classified information that Bush’s does, since Bush is the commander-in-chief. If this is inaccurate, I have to withdraw that point.
>>It is when your current president has ignored the rest
>>of the world and proceeded unilaterally.
>
>Ben, you've drunk the flaming-lib-purple-kool-aid.
>You're repeating unfounded propaganda.
I honestly watch very little television, and I read articles from magazines like Time, which never say anything like “Bush ignored the rest of the world.” That’s mainly my assessment of what I have seen. It made me really angry when we rushed into Iraq like they were about to nuke us.
>>I can’t believe how rabidly anti-Democrat you are.
>>Did a Democrat kill your pet when you were little or
>>something?
>
>lol - OK - you've got me there. Honestly, yeah. I AM
>rabidly anti-democratic. Even if Bush started killing
>and eating Jew-babies (that's from a David Cross
>comedy bit), I'd still vote for him.
>
>It's not even about Kerry and Bush - it's about the
>fundamental basis of the two parties' views on
>governance. Democratic policy is based on the
>Societal model, which has been empirically disproven
>repeatedly. The Republican model is based on the
>Economic model, which has a rationally defensible,
>scientifically supported basis.
Yeah, but we’ve talked a lot about how even the party’s desires are squelched once they’re in office, so that really doesn’t worry me. We have a Republican-controlled Congress, so I don’t think anyone is going to go too far with Socialistic economics. I would be interested in having this conversation elsewhere, though, since I really don’t understand the intricacies of socialism or economics.
>>That’s all for tonight… I’ll address your other posts
>>tomorrow if I have time. All I remember right now is
>>that you compared me to a fundamentalist Christian,
>>which wasn’t very cordial of you.
>
>Yeah - you're right. I know it was rude, and I
>apologize. I guess I just wanted to be provocative.
>So my apologies.
That’s okay. I compared Bush to Hitler earlier. But at least I didn’t compare you to Hitler. J
>But, for now, I think we should continue our vehement
>argument (cause it's fun) - just remember that I truly
>DO respect your judgement, and I think you're probably
>one of the most reasonable, rational people I know.
>Because I disagree with you, and think you're wrong
>about certain aspects of this argument has no effect
>on the high regard in which I hold your opinions and
>reasoning.
Thank you. And you, too, are a very rational person, which is why I’m sometimes a bit uneasy with how staunchly anti-Democrat you are. But don’t worry about me getting upset and hating you or something. I like a charged debate as much as the next guy, and I’m enjoying this one. However, my weekend is almost over, so I may not be posting much for another week or so.
Ben
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