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Date Posted: 09/ 2/15 4:06:03pm Wed
Author: Raider Archivist
Subject: This oral tradition should have a permanent future
In reply to: 'gate80 's message, "Navy 52 - Colgate 24, 1997" on 09/ 2/15 7:33:02am Wed








My interest in gate/East Coast football began for me in the early 60's as high schoo fb playerl in the Chicago suburbs contemplating where I might be a student-athlete in college. I've had an interest in gate fb and general history and have tried to fill in pieces of the story as the years have gone by.

gate80's contribution to fulfilling this interest has been wonderful as have Gate 63's memorabilia. Despite the Ivy Envy that has afflicted the great unwashed not anointed into the Ancient 8, gate has evolved into a significant niche within in Div I sports among elite national liberal arts institutions.

I am optimistic that this tradition will continue to give Colgate its unique cachet, of which I'd love to share. With gate80's and Gate63's help, why don't we investigate having research commissioned for a book on Gate Athletic History. It would be great for sharing with prospective student-athletes, among other uss. Who else is interested in this long term project ?



>The backlash against the 0-11 season, when Colgate
>vied with Prairie View A&M as the worst team in I-AA,
>resulted in the firing of Sweeney, the hiring of
>Biddle (and Dunlap as QB coach), and measures designed
>to help the fb program recover. In 1996, led by
>freshman QB Ryan Vena, we were a 2-pt conversion away
>from winning the PL championship for the first time.
>At the time of the 1997 Navy game we were undefeated
>in the PL (including our first win over HC since the
>ABC-televised win in 1982), and had lost a tight game
>to Army by a TD in large part due to a questionable
>roughing the kicker call. Navy in 1997 was coming off
>a 9-win season including a bowl win over Cal, and was
>hoping to return to a bowl game. They were led by
>Chris McCoy, considered the best Navy QB since Roger
>Staubach. (BTW, current Navy QB Keenan Reynolds is
>considered even better than McCoy.) I was as excited
>travelling to Annapolis for the 1997 game as any game
>in over a decade.
>
>The Raiders seemed overwhelmed at first, and Navy
>pulled ahead 31-0 in the 2nd. McCoy was unstoppable,
>and passed and ran for over 300 yards. In my memory
>our first first down didn't come until we were behind
>31-0. But then something strange happened. Ryan Vena
>came alive and could not be stopped. We had a long
>drive for a TD just before the end of the half, and
>Colgate continued early in the second half to score
>another 18 points. When we scored early in the 4th to
>make it 38-24, it wasn't outrageous to think we were
>still in the game as the Raiders had scored 24 of the
>last 31 points. Corey Hill had a great game with over
>100 yards in receptions, and Ed Weiss made several key
>runs. Vena was terrific despite always being under
>heavy pressure, and threw for about 200 yards. Navy
>did not put the game away until a kick or punt return
>for a TD in the 4th.
>
>The most noteworthy thing I remember about that game
>was the lack of Colgate fan support for what I
>considered the biggest Colgate game in a decade
>against perhaps the strongest team we played during
>that time. The 7 losing seasons in 8 years, the
>16-game losing streak, and the purposeful neglect of
>the program for years had taken its toll. Maybe the
>oldtimers had seen enough during the prior decade and
>were too old to get excited again. I'm sure the 11
>consecutive Colgate graduating classes when the fb
>program had an overall losing record resulted in those
>alums not getting as interested in following the team
>as generations before them had. While there were some
>exceptions where there were glimpses of past Colgate
>spirit - the playoff run in 2003, games against Air
>Force and Syracuse - I never again saw the enthusiasm
>for Colgate football among students and alums that was
>routine prior to the gutting. In this sense I don't
>think Biddle and his players ever received the support
>they deserved, and would have certainly received in
>earlier times. Later posters on this forum would blame
>ESPN and video games, but to someone like me (who has
>attended well over 100 Raider fb games), the dividing
>line was clearly 1995, after which much of the
>interest in the fb program from the majority of alums
>died. In that respect the efforts of Tony, Neil, and
>the rest were ultimately successful, despite the
>resurrection of the fb program under Biddle. Colgate's
>brand and ccharacter had changed.
>
>The team gained confidence I think scoring 24 points
>in less than 18 minutes against a strong Navy team to
>get back in the game. This helped them a couple of
>weeks later when they played #1 ranked, undefeated
>Villanova in the playoffs. This was the first time the
>PL champ was allowed to go to the playoffs. It was
>ironic that Colgate was the first PL team to
>participate, as Neil Grabois was bitterly opposed to
>playoff participation. After all, the Ivy league champ
>didn't go, so Colgate had to demonstrate its Ivy
>inferiority complex and mindlessly mimic what they
>did. Fortunately the presidents and faculties at the
>Pennsylvania PL schools were not so academically
>insecure and outvoted us on this issue, so the team
>was able to play. Colgate came from behind against the
>#1 seeded Wildcats who included future NFLers Brian
>Westbrook and Brian Finneran, and were leading the
>game in the 4th before Villanova pulled away. The 1997
>Navy game also certainly helped the team prepare for
>the 1998 rematch in Annapolis, where they started the
>game not intimidated but on fire.

[ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

Replies:

[> [> Re: This oral tradition should have a permanent future -- cr, 09/ 2/15 4:26:52pm Wed

>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>My interest in gate/East Coast football began for me
>in the early 60's as high schoo fb playerl in the
>Chicago suburbs contemplating where I might be a
>student-athlete in college. I've had an interest in
>gate fb and general history and have tried to fill in
>pieces of the story as the years have gone by.
>
>gate80's contribution to fulfilling this interest has
>been wonderful as have Gate 63's memorabilia. Despite
>the Ivy Envy that has afflicted the great unwashed not
>anointed into the Ancient 8, gate has evolved into a
>significant niche within in Div I sports among elite
>national liberal arts institutions.
>
>I am optimistic that this tradition will continue to
>give Colgate its unique cachet, of which I'd love to
>share. With gate80's and Gate63's help, why don't we
>investigate having research commissioned for a book on
>Gate Athletic History. It would be great for sharing
>with prospective student-athletes, among other uss.
>Who else is interested in this long term project ?
>
>
>
>>The backlash against the 0-11 season, when Colgate
>>vied with Prairie View A&M as the worst team in I-AA,
>>resulted in the firing of Sweeney, the hiring of
>>Biddle (and Dunlap as QB coach), and measures designed
>>to help the fb program recover. In 1996, led by
>>freshman QB Ryan Vena, we were a 2-pt conversion away
>>from winning the PL championship for the first time.
>>At the time of the 1997 Navy game we were undefeated
>>in the PL (including our first win over HC since the
>>ABC-televised win in 1982), and had lost a tight game
>>to Army by a TD in large part due to a questionable
>>roughing the kicker call. Navy in 1997 was coming off
>>a 9-win season including a bowl win over Cal, and was
>>hoping to return to a bowl game. They were led by
>>Chris McCoy, considered the best Navy QB since Roger
>>Staubach. (BTW, current Navy QB Keenan Reynolds is
>>considered even better than McCoy.) I was as excited
>>travelling to Annapolis for the 1997 game as any game
>>in over a decade.
>>
>>The Raiders seemed overwhelmed at first, and Navy
>>pulled ahead 31-0 in the 2nd. McCoy was unstoppable,
>>and passed and ran for over 300 yards. In my memory
>>our first first down didn't come until we were behind
>>31-0. But then something strange happened. Ryan Vena
>>came alive and could not be stopped. We had a long
>>drive for a TD just before the end of the half, and
>>Colgate continued early in the second half to score
>>another 18 points. When we scored early in the 4th to
>>make it 38-24, it wasn't outrageous to think we were
>>still in the game as the Raiders had scored 24 of the
>>last 31 points. Corey Hill had a great game with over
>>100 yards in receptions, and Ed Weiss made several key
>>runs. Vena was terrific despite always being under
>>heavy pressure, and threw for about 200 yards. Navy
>>did not put the game away until a kick or punt return
>>for a TD in the 4th.
>>
>>The most noteworthy thing I remember about that game
>>was the lack of Colgate fan support for what I
>>considered the biggest Colgate game in a decade
>>against perhaps the strongest team we played during
>>that time. The 7 losing seasons in 8 years, the
>>16-game losing streak, and the purposeful neglect of
>>the program for years had taken its toll. Maybe the
>>oldtimers had seen enough during the prior decade and
>>were too old to get excited again. I'm sure the 11
>>consecutive Colgate graduating classes when the fb
>>program had an overall losing record resulted in those
>>alums not getting as interested in following the team
>>as generations before them had. While there were some
>>exceptions where there were glimpses of past Colgate
>>spirit - the playoff run in 2003, games against Air
>>Force and Syracuse - I never again saw the enthusiasm
>>for Colgate football among students and alums that was
>>routine prior to the gutting. In this sense I don't
>>think Biddle and his players ever received the support
>>they deserved, and would have certainly received in
>>earlier times. Later posters on this forum would blame
>>ESPN and video games, but to someone like me (who has
>>attended well over 100 Raider fb games), the dividing
>>line was clearly 1995, after which much of the
>>interest in the fb program from the majority of alums
>>died. In that respect the efforts of Tony, Neil, and
>>the rest were ultimately successful, despite the
>>resurrection of the fb program under Biddle. Colgate's
>>brand and ccharacter had changed.
>>
>>The team gained confidence I think scoring 24 points
>>in less than 18 minutes against a strong Navy team to
>>get back in the game. This helped them a couple of
>>weeks later when they played #1 ranked, undefeated
>>Villanova in the playoffs. This was the first time the
>>PL champ was allowed to go to the playoffs. It was
>>ironic that Colgate was the first PL team to
>>participate, as Neil Grabois was bitterly opposed to
>>playoff participation. After all, the Ivy league champ
>>didn't go, so Colgate had to demonstrate its Ivy
>>inferiority complex and mindlessly mimic what they
>>did. Fortunately the presidents and faculties at the
>>Pennsylvania PL schools were not so academically
>>insecure and outvoted us on this issue, so the team
>>was able to play. Colgate came from behind against the
>>#1 seeded Wildcats who included future NFLers Brian
>>Westbrook and Brian Finneran, and were leading the
>>game in the 4th before Villanova pulled away. The 1997
>>Navy game also certainly helped the team prepare for
>>the 1998 rematch in Annapolis, where they started the
>>game not intimidated but on fire.


To Raider Archivist,
I am from a Chicago suburb and my interest in Colgate was stimulated just as Yours was. In my sr year in high school Colgate played Illinois with Bobby Mitchell at rb. That really caught my eye and before I knew it I was off to Hamilton. Our incoming president appears to be a backer of strong athletics so I am very hopeful for the future.


[ Edit | View ]

[> [> [> Cr, so how about the book ( or electronic media? ) codifying this great tradition ? -- Raider Archivist, 09/ 2/15 5:31:04pm Wed

I truly believe Gate is entering a sweetspot in its storied history. It's a new era, not dependent on over glorifying the "Glory Days" wishing them on an evolving Div. I scene. Given the emergence of National Liberal Arts Colleges as a separate class of institution ( thanks in part to the NESCAC, Davidson, the P.L. ), Gate has a national niche that brings it out of the shadow of the Ivies. We ae in a sweetspot, trust me!





>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>My interest in gate/East Coast football began for me
>>in the early 60's as high schoo fb playerl in the
>>Chicago suburbs contemplating where I might be a
>>student-athlete in college. I've had an interest in
>>gate fb and general history and have tried to fill in
>>pieces of the story as the years have gone by.
>>
>>gate80's contribution to fulfilling this interest has
>>been wonderful as have Gate 63's memorabilia. Despite
>>the Ivy Envy that has afflicted the great unwashed not
>>anointed into the Ancient 8, gate has evolved into a
>>significant niche within in Div I sports among elite
>>national liberal arts institutions.
>>
>>I am optimistic that this tradition will continue to
>>give Colgate its unique cachet, of which I'd love to
>>share. With gate80's and Gate63's help, why don't we
>>investigate having research commissioned for a book on
>>Gate Athletic History. It would be great for sharing
>>with prospective student-athletes, among other uss.
>>Who else is interested in this long term project ?
>>
>>
>>
>>>The backlash against the 0-11 season, when Colgate
>>>vied with Prairie View A&M as the worst team in I-AA,
>>>resulted in the firing of Sweeney, the hiring of
>>>Biddle (and Dunlap as QB coach), and measures
>designed
>>>to help the fb program recover. In 1996, led by
>>>freshman QB Ryan Vena, we were a 2-pt conversion away
>>>from winning the PL championship for the first time.
>>>At the time of the 1997 Navy game we were undefeated
>>>in the PL (including our first win over HC since the
>>>ABC-televised win in 1982), and had lost a tight game
>>>to Army by a TD in large part due to a questionable
>>>roughing the kicker call. Navy in 1997 was coming off
>>>a 9-win season including a bowl win over Cal, and was
>>>hoping to return to a bowl game. They were led by
>>>Chris McCoy, considered the best Navy QB since Roger
>>>Staubach. (BTW, current Navy QB Keenan Reynolds is
>>>considered even better than McCoy.) I was as excited
>>>travelling to Annapolis for the 1997 game as any game
>>>in over a decade.
>>>
>>>The Raiders seemed overwhelmed at first, and Navy
>>>pulled ahead 31-0 in the 2nd. McCoy was unstoppable,
>>>and passed and ran for over 300 yards. In my memory
>>>our first first down didn't come until we were behind
>>>31-0. But then something strange happened. Ryan Vena
>>>came alive and could not be stopped. We had a long
>>>drive for a TD just before the end of the half, and
>>>Colgate continued early in the second half to score
>>>another 18 points. When we scored early in the 4th to
>>>make it 38-24, it wasn't outrageous to think we were
>>>still in the game as the Raiders had scored 24 of the
>>>last 31 points. Corey Hill had a great game with over
>>>100 yards in receptions, and Ed Weiss made several
>key
>>>runs. Vena was terrific despite always being under
>>>heavy pressure, and threw for about 200 yards. Navy
>>>did not put the game away until a kick or punt return
>>>for a TD in the 4th.
>>>
>>>The most noteworthy thing I remember about that game
>>>was the lack of Colgate fan support for what I
>>>considered the biggest Colgate game in a decade
>>>against perhaps the strongest team we played during
>>>that time. The 7 losing seasons in 8 years, the
>>>16-game losing streak, and the purposeful neglect of
>>>the program for years had taken its toll. Maybe the
>>>oldtimers had seen enough during the prior decade and
>>>were too old to get excited again. I'm sure the 11
>>>consecutive Colgate graduating classes when the fb
>>>program had an overall losing record resulted in
>those
>>>alums not getting as interested in following the team
>>>as generations before them had. While there were some
>>>exceptions where there were glimpses of past Colgate
>>>spirit - the playoff run in 2003, games against Air
>>>Force and Syracuse - I never again saw the enthusiasm
>>>for Colgate football among students and alums that
>was
>>>routine prior to the gutting. In this sense I don't
>>>think Biddle and his players ever received the
>support
>>>they deserved, and would have certainly received in
>>>earlier times. Later posters on this forum would
>blame
>>>ESPN and video games, but to someone like me (who has
>>>attended well over 100 Raider fb games), the dividing
>>>line was clearly 1995, after which much of the
>>>interest in the fb program from the majority of alums
>>>died. In that respect the efforts of Tony, Neil, and
>>>the rest were ultimately successful, despite the
>>>resurrection of the fb program under Biddle.
>Colgate's
>>>brand and ccharacter had changed.
>>>
>>>The team gained confidence I think scoring 24 points
>>>in less than 18 minutes against a strong Navy team to
>>>get back in the game. This helped them a couple of
>>>weeks later when they played #1 ranked, undefeated
>>>Villanova in the playoffs. This was the first time
>the
>>>PL champ was allowed to go to the playoffs. It was
>>>ironic that Colgate was the first PL team to
>>>participate, as Neil Grabois was bitterly opposed to
>>>playoff participation. After all, the Ivy league
>champ
>>>didn't go, so Colgate had to demonstrate its Ivy
>>>inferiority complex and mindlessly mimic what they
>>>did. Fortunately the presidents and faculties at the
>>>Pennsylvania PL schools were not so academically
>>>insecure and outvoted us on this issue, so the team
>>>was able to play. Colgate came from behind against
>the
>>>#1 seeded Wildcats who included future NFLers Brian
>>>Westbrook and Brian Finneran, and were leading the
>>>game in the 4th before Villanova pulled away. The
>1997
>>>Navy game also certainly helped the team prepare for
>>>the 1998 rematch in Annapolis, where they started the
>>>game not intimidated but on fire.
>
>
>To Raider Archivist,
>I am from a Chicago suburb and my interest in Colgate
>was stimulated just as Yours was. In my sr year in
>high school Colgate played Illinois with Bobby
>Mitchell at rb. That really caught my eye and before
>I knew it I was off to Hamilton. Our incoming
>president appears to be a backer of strong athletics
>so I am very hopeful for the future.


[ Edit | View ]

[> [> Re: This oral tradition should have a permanent future -- Gate63, 09/ 2/15 8:32:14pm Wed

Always willing to provide pictures/scans of anything I have to anyone who wants it. I also have a lot of stuff that has not made it's way onto my website.


[ Edit | View ]

[> [> [> Great contribution from Gate 63,...and you 'gate80 ? -- Raider Archivist, 09/ 2/15 9:04:23pm Wed

To demonstrate how multi-talented Drs are with Colgate Liberal Arts Degrees, we have to show off your literary skills. And, your "attidude" that come through is great....athough I can hear you cracking your knuckles and breathing deeply when you utter BUDDY KARELIS and AGNES. Might scare off some recruits....Let's do this!



>Always willing to provide pictures/scans of anything I
>have to anyone who wants it. I also have a lot of
>stuff that has not made it's way onto my website.


[ Edit | View ]

[> [> [> [> Re: Great contribution from Gate 63,...and you 'gate80 ? -- 'gate80, 09/ 3/15 2:00:19pm Thu

Sure. As you know I love taking about Colgate football past and present.

I am tolerant and welcoming of all things Colgate. Despite their eccentricities, I had nothing against Agnes and Buddy except for the fact that they wanted to irreparably harm our fb tradition. Archivist you speak of the "niche" you want Colgate to occupy within Div-1 athletics. I'm sure you realize that we had that niche a generation ago in a way we can never have again. I can live to be 100 and I will still wonder why Colgate's small-time, wholesome fb program, which brought nothing but honor and recognition to Colgate and joy and excitement to alums and students, was seen by our leaders as something that needed to be dismantled. I've been waiting for 10 years on this board for some explanation. And it's not just ancient history, as Lexi Panepinto's recent letter demonstrates.


[ Edit | View ]

[> [> History and Bicentennial -- Philip, 09/ 3/15 8:42:56am Thu

>...investigate having research commissioned for a book on
>Gate Athletic History.

Colgate is working on an updated "History of Colgate" for the 2019 bicentennial. I believe Jim Smith ’71 (former Alumni Trustee) is one of the chief movers behind this effort.

Anyone know Jim well enough to ask how Colgate athletics will be featured both in the history project as well as a celebrated part of the bicentennial?


[ Edit | View ]


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