[ Show ]
Support VoyForums
[ Shrink ]
VoyForums Announcement:
Programming and providing support for this service has been a labor
of love since 1997. We are one of the few services online who values our users'
privacy, and have never sold your information. We have even fought hard to defend your
privacy in legal cases; however, we've done it with almost no financial support -- paying out of pocket
to continue providing the service. Due to the issues imposed on us by advertisers, we
also stopped hosting most ads on the forums many years ago. We hope you appreciate our efforts.
Show your support by donating any amount. (Note: We are still technically a for-profit company, so your
contribution is not tax-deductible.)
PayPal Acct: 
Feedback: 
Donate to VoyForums (PayPal):
[ Next Thread |
Previous Thread |
Next Message |
Previous Message ]
Date Posted: 10/13/15 8:21:08am Tue
Author: Kinney
Subject: Re: Football Coaching Complaints
In reply to:
Gate Raider
's message, "Re: Football Coaching Complaints" on 10/12/15 1:51:29pm Mon
>There are thousands of very good football players with very good academic records.
Colgate does not want very good football players nor very good students. It wants *really* good student-athletes, and they are harder to come by than you'd first think. There are a few hundred football players each year who are recruited by D1 programs and have the academic credentials to attend Patriot League schools (leaving out Fordham - cough, cough). The best of those athletes are also being recruited by Michigan, Stanford, Rice, Baylor, etc. The best of those students are also being recruited by Harvard, Yale and Princeton. There are *very* few student-athletes who are "on the margin" - Good enough students and athletes to be at Colgate but not good enough to attend other schools they perceive as being better in football, academics, or both.
Recruiting at this level is a nightmare - We all think Colgate is special. It is. But to an outsider, it isn't perceived to be the *best* at anything. Very serious about academics? Ivys seen as better. Very serious about FCS football? How often does a patriot league team make it out of the first round?
Also, let's remember what scholarships do at Colgate - They cover what a family *could* pay but has decided not to pay. Thus we are in the territory of choices being made. Many families will pay some for an Ivy versus taking a free Colgate education. Again, we are working thin margins and taking risks with recruits.
[
Next Thread |
Previous Thread |
Next Message |
Previous Message
]
Replies:
[> [> [>
Re: Football Coaching Complaints -- gatefan, 10/13/15 8:30:08am Tue
There are a few hundred football
>players each year who are recruited by D1 programs and
>have the academic credentials to attend Patriot League
>schools
there are aprox 1.1 million hs players if we say 25% are seniors that leaves 275,000. from that there are only a few hundred available to recruit?????? where did you get that from??
[ Edit | View ]
[> [> [> [>
Re: Football Coaching Complaints -- Kinney, 10/13/15 11:12:24am Tue
>there are aprox 1.1 million hs players if we say 25%
>are seniors that leaves 275,000. from that there are
>only a few hundred available to recruit?????? where
>did you get that from??
There are 125 FCS programs. Figure 30 players each incoming each year. 30*125 = 3,750 football players a year going to FCS schools.
At best, and this is an exaggeration, 20% of those 3,750 are academically suited to most Patriot League schools, the Ivys, etc. That leaves 750 student-athletes land-able by FCS schools and academically qualified to attend Colgate.
Of course we don't just need a random 30 of these 750, as within any given year, we need certain positions and skill types. You might expect that of the 750 to choose from, there is not an even distribution by position / skill type.
And, of course, these guys can go to many other FCS schools, and UNH isn't going to turn down a great player just because they are smart enough to go to Colgate.
It really is hundreds of players we are discussing.
You can, all you want, argue Colgate should change its admission criteria to run a more competitive FCS football program. But until we do, the conjunction of great student as measured by the AI and great FCS football athlete limits one to a small subset of men.
[ Edit | View ]
[> [> [> [> [>
Re: Football Coaching Complaints -- gatefan, 10/13/15 2:41:08pm Tue
>>there are aprox 1.1 million hs players if we say 25%
>>are seniors that leaves 275,000. from that there are
>>only a few hundred available to recruit?????? where
>>did you get that from??
>
>There are 125 FCS programs. Figure 30 players each
>incoming each year. 30*125 = 3,750 football players a
>year going to FCS schools.
>
>At best, and this is an exaggeration, 20% of those
>3,750 are academically suited to most Patriot League
>schools, the Ivys, etc. That leaves 750
>student-athletes land-able by FCS schools and
>academically qualified to attend Colgate.
>
>Of course we don't just need a random 30 of these 750,
>as within any given year, we need certain positions
>and skill types. You might expect that of the 750 to
>choose from, there is not an even distribution by
>position / skill type.
>
>And, of course, these guys can go to many other FCS
>schools, and UNH isn't going to turn down a great
>player just because they are smart enough to go to
>Colgate.
>
>It really is hundreds of players we are discussing.
>
>You can, all you want, argue Colgate should change its
>admission criteria to run a more competitive FCS
>football program. But until we do, the conjunction of
>great student as measured by the AI and great FCS
>football athlete limits one to a small subset of men.
so that math works 750 is "a lot more" than a few hundred though! and I would not advocate for lowering the AI !!
[ Edit | View ]
[> [> [>
Re: Football Coaching Complaints -- RichH, 10/13/15 9:35:17am Tue
>>There are thousands of very good football players
>with very good academic records.
>
>Colgate does not want very good football players nor
>very good students. It wants *really* good
>student-athletes, and they are harder to come by than
>you'd first think. There are a few hundred football
>players each year who are recruited by D1 programs and
>have the academic credentials to attend Patriot League
>schools (leaving out Fordham - cough, cough). The
>best of those athletes are also being recruited by
>Michigan, Stanford, Rice, Baylor, etc. The best of
>those students are also being recruited by Harvard,
>Yale and Princeton. There are *very* few
>student-athletes who are "on the margin" - Good enough
>students and athletes to be at Colgate but not good
>enough to attend other schools they perceive as being
>better in football, academics, or both.
>
>Recruiting at this level is a nightmare - We all think
>Colgate is special. It is. But to an outsider, it
>isn't perceived to be the *best* at anything. Very
>serious about academics? Ivys seen as better. Very
>serious about FCS football? How often does a patriot
>league team make it out of the first round?
>
>Also, let's remember what scholarships do at Colgate -
>They cover what a family *could* pay but has decided
>not to pay. Thus we are in the territory of choices
>being made. Many families will pay some for an Ivy
>versus taking a free Colgate education. Again, we are
>working thin margins and taking risks with recruits.
Your numbers are approx right on an avg year. About just under 3% of seniors play college ball.The NE alone has about 3000 HS teams. That our pool is small compared to CAA et al,it is still quite large even with the AI. Most staffs use NCAA authorized recruiting services to winnow thru the numbers around the country. Coaches may start out with a list of 3-4000 names.
[ Edit | View ]
[> [> [> [>
Re: Football Coaching Complaints -- Consultant, 10/13/15 3:38:59pm Tue
>>>There are thousands of very good football players
>>with very good academic records.
>>
>>Colgate does not want very good football players nor
>>very good students. It wants *really* good
>>student-athletes, and they are harder to come by than
>>you'd first think. There are a few hundred football
>>players each year who are recruited by D1 programs and
>>have the academic credentials to attend Patriot League
>>schools (leaving out Fordham - cough, cough). The
>>best of those athletes are also being recruited by
>>Michigan, Stanford, Rice, Baylor, etc. The best of
>>those students are also being recruited by Harvard,
>>Yale and Princeton. There are *very* few
>>student-athletes who are "on the margin" - Good enough
>>students and athletes to be at Colgate but not good
>>enough to attend other schools they perceive as being
>>better in football, academics, or both.
>>
>>Recruiting at this level is a nightmare - We all think
>>Colgate is special. It is. But to an outsider, it
>>isn't perceived to be the *best* at anything. Very
>>serious about academics? Ivys seen as better. Very
>>serious about FCS football? How often does a patriot
>>league team make it out of the first round?
>>
>>Also, let's remember what scholarships do at Colgate -
>>They cover what a family *could* pay but has decided
>>not to pay. Thus we are in the territory of choices
>>being made. Many families will pay some for an Ivy
>>versus taking a free Colgate education. Again, we are
>>working thin margins and taking risks with recruits.
>Your numbers are approx right on an avg year. About
>just under 3% of seniors play college ball.The NE
>alone has about 3000 HS teams. That our pool is small
>compared to CAA et al,it is still quite large even
>with the AI. Most staffs use NCAA authorized
>recruiting services to winnow thru the numbers around
>the country. Coaches may start out with a list of
>3-4000 names.
Everyone should hope for the best/most successful outcome. If the program doesn't improve, then there should be consequences (e.g. staff changes.) A plan should be put in place (1/3/5yr) in order to track and see what type of improvements have or have not occurred.
You would think the necessary people are doing their due diligence in evaluating the necessary components of the program (seeing football carries such weight at Colgate.)
If they necessary people don't do the appropriate steps in evaluating, they should be held accountable as well.
No need to make things complicated. Either get better or you don't.
[ Edit | View ]
[> [> [> [>
Explain Field Hockey -- Gate Raider, 10/13/15 6:26:24pm Tue
Agree consultant. The football program costs several million every year. However, Colgate is slow to act when it comes to personnel changes in the athletic department. The field hockey situation defies explanation.
[ Edit | View ]
[> [> [> [> [>
Re: Explain Field Hockey -- Consultant, 10/13/15 7:11:36pm Tue
>Agree consultant. The football program costs several
>million every year. However, Colgate is slow to act
>when it comes to personnel changes in the athletic
>department. The field hockey situation defies
>explanation.
You are exactly right about field hockey. You have to set aside personal relationships and do what is best for the program. If I am a high level student athlete, I want a great education and to compete at a high level, with a chance at winning, that is the whole point. Again very simple.
Football does cost millions of dollars to run, difficulty is not bringing in one ounce of revenue, other than guarantees for getting their butt kicked. There is enough influence at higher administrative levels I imagine that will not let this become a field hockey problem.
But who knows!!! Still wish success for everyone.
[ Edit | View ]
[> [> [> [> [>
Re: Explain Field Hockey -- analyzer, 10/13/15 7:17:23pm Tue
Get a new offensive coordinator or we won't be able to keep recruiting excellent kids that can throw and catch. Read option quarterbacks with an AI will continue to come to Colgate which means that we will continue to run and continue to be able to be stopped by 7 in the box, just like big short yardage plays this year. Need a new OC and if that does not work, then a new coach. Recruiting should include Texas and Ohio more because we already do a good job in Florida and the northeast and Illinois.
Go 'gate!
[ Edit | View ]
[> [> [> [> [>
Re: Explain Field Hockey -- Maven, 10/13/15 7:56:22pm Tue
>Agree consultant. The football program costs several
>million every year. However, Colgate is slow to act
>when it comes to personnel changes in the athletic
>department. The field hockey situation defies
>explanation.
Field Hockey must be a seniority issue. I get no clear answers.
[ Edit | View ]
[ Contact Forum Admin ]
Forum timezone: GMT-5
VF Version: 3.00b, ConfDB:
Before posting please read our privacy policy.
VoyForums(tm) is a Free Service from Voyager Info-Systems.
Copyright © 1998-2019 Voyager Info-Systems. All Rights Reserved.
|
|
