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Date Posted: 16:41:26 10/11/99 Mon
Author: Gabriel
Subject: Re: Southern Baptist Anti-Catholic!
In reply to: fate_777 's message, "Re: Southern Baptist Anti-Catholic!" on 16:19:23 10/11/99 Mon


> I would agree on this point that no where does it say
> it is the only authority
> fate

Amen.

> > 2) Southern Baptists claim that salvation is by faith
> > alone. James 2:24 explicitly condemns this view: "We
> > are justified by works, and not by faith alone" as
> > does Phillipians 2:12, Romans 2:6-8, Romans 2:14,
> > Matthew 25:31-46, Galatians 6:6-10, James 2:26, James
> > 2:14, Luke 12:37, Hebrews 12:14, and 1 Timothy
> > 6:18-19. So, give me one place in the Bible, just one
> > single place, where it specifically says that we are
> > justified by faith ALONE. In fact, give me a single
> > verse where the phrase "only faith" or "faith alone"
> > or anything of the sort can be found.
>
> while I agree on this point you cant argue that the
> thief on the cross was saved by anything but grace
> alone, as he obviously had no chance to do good works,
> but I think grace, plus good works is the key not one
> without the other
> fate

Don't get me wrong. I do believe that it is by grace alone that we are saved (it is God's grace alone that allows us to do good works). But I think that, while we may be saved through grace, both faith AND works are necessary for salvation. Would you agree with that?

> > 3) You claim that the Bible is the only authority,
> and
> > so you reject the Church (including the successor of
> > Peter-- the pope) and Tradition as true authorities.
> > How do you reconcile this preposterous belief with 1
> > Timothy 3:15, Matthew 16:17-20, John 21:15-17,
> > Epehsians 5:27, 2 Thess 2:15, and 2 Timothy 2:2?
>
> I must agree on this point as well
> fate

Amen.

>
> > 4) Considering the fact that it was the Catholic
> > Church, in the year 382, that defined the canon of
> > Scriptures, and you don't believe that the Catholic
> > Church is infallible, how do you know for sure that
> > you even have an infallible Bible? Afterall, nobody
> > knew the true canon before 382-- people referred
> > constantly to books like the Gospel of Peter, the
> Book
> > of Mary, etc.. Many people rejected 3rd John,
> > Revelation, Philemon and other inspired books as
> well.
> > Until the Catholic Church defined the canon, nobody
> > knew what books to include in their Bibles. And yet
> > you, as a Southern Baptist, still choose to read the
> > New Testament that the CATHOLIC CHURCH compiled? Why?
> > How do you know that your New Testament is
> infallible?
>
>
> I must admit i do not know much about that so I cant
> really say
> fate
>

Better to be humble honest than proud and dishonest. Amen.


>
> >
> > 5) The Southern Baptist church holds that the Church
> > which Christ established was merely a body of
> > believers and that every single Christian is within
> > the Church. And yet this so-called "Church" is split
> > into 26,000 denominations (literally!). And yet the
> > Bible has blatently pointed out that the Church is
> > completely unified: John 17:20-23, Acts 2:44, 1
> > Corinthians 12:25-26, and Romans 12:4-5, along with
> > every verse which refers to a singular Church. How do
> > you dare to say that Christ's Church is split up into
> > 26,000 schsims?
>
>
> That is true too kinda hard to believe they have
> 26,000 shsicms WOW
> fate

Amen. Yes, I was extremely surprised at this as well.

> > 6) Southern Baptists hold that the Eucharist is
> merely
> > a symbol of the blood and body of Jesus Christ. But
> > Christ said, "This is my body... this is my blood"
> > (Mat 26:26,28). And to eliminate confusion, he made a
> > very obvious, blatent, and undeniable statement
> > concerning the real presence: "My flesh is truly
> food,
> > and my blood is truly drink." (John 6:55). Even Paul
> > understood the Real Presence: "For as often as you
> eat
> > this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the
> Lord's
> > death till He comes. Therefore, whoever eats this
> > bread or drinks this cup of the Lord in an unworthy
> > manner will be guilty of the body and blood of the
> > Lord....For he who eats and drinks in an unworthy
> > manner eats and drinks judgement to himself, not
> > discerning the Lord's body."(1 Cor
> > 11:26-27,29). The Real Presence is obvious. Where in
> > the Bible do you find that the Eaucharist is meant to
> > be symbolic?
>
> Ok I am assuming that by this you mean they dont
> actually take communion, if this is the case, I must
> say I think that is wrong, I think like you said that
> we should eat the bread and the juice as rememberances
> of christs body and blood shed for us, if thats not
> what you meant then Im sorry
> fate


No, that's not exactly what I meant. Catholics believe that Christ Himself is actually present in the Eucharist. The bread in communion is actually and truly the body of Christ. Southern Bpatists believe that Christ's presence is a mere symbol.


>
> >
> > 7) Southern Baptists don't anoint the sick with oil.
> > How do you justify this with James 5:14: "Is anyone
> > among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the
> > church, and let them pray over him, anointing him
> with
> > oil in the name of the Lord."?
>
> this is one point that I dont think is absolutly
> neccessary to be anointed with oil, as I have been in
> the hospital, and though lots of people have prayed,
> have never had oil annointed and I recovered, but I
> dont think its a bad thing to be annointed with oil
> either, plus working the city, I have seen many people
> revived by medics and surgeons that were not annonited
> by oil, so I believe that god can and will heal people
> even without being annointed, but again I dont think
> its a bad thing to be annointed either.
> fate

Amen. I also believe that people heal frequently without the use of oil (of course). But I definitely think that oil is beneficial, as it is commanded by God (but its not necessary, like you said.).


>
> >
> > 8) Southern Baptists replace Confirmation (the laying
> > of hands) with Baptism, and completely get rid of
> > Confirmation!. How do you justify this with Hebrews
> > 6:2, Acts 19:5-6, and especially Acts 8:14-17?
>
> I didnt know they did that, we also have hands on
> praying as well as baptism, so I think both are ok
> fate

Amen.

>
> >
> > 9) Southern Baptists condemn infant Baptism. How do
> > you justify this with Acts 2:38-39, Acts 16:15, Acts
> > 16:33, Acts 18:18, 1 Corithians 1:16, John 3:5,
> Romans
> > 6:4 (cf. Psalm 51:5), and Colossians 2:11-12?
>
> While there is absoultly nothing wrong with infant
> baptism, I also think kids should be baptized also
> when they are old enough to realize that the decision
> to give your life to god is a very important step, and
> they should be aware and make their own decison to be
> baptized, but like I said I would never condemn infant
> baptism as well
> fate

Can't say I disagree too much with you here. Amen.

>
> >
> > 10) Southern Baptists readily pray for eachother and
> > ask others to pray for them, but they refuse to ask
> > the saints in Heaven, who sit with God, to pray for
> > them. We are one Body. You cannot exclude the alive
> in
> > Heaven from the Body of Christ. In the same way you
> > ask fellow Christians on Earth to pray for you, why
> > not ask the (perfectly alive) saints in Heaven, who
> > are undoubtedly saved, to pray for you?
>
> I would agree to a point as well on that, but I also
> think you should first pray to god, above any and all
> else, but no there is nothing wrong with praying for
> the saints and those who died in christ as well to
> pray for you. plus even though I am not catholic I
> kinda like the idea of St. Michael being the patron
> saint of protecting police, and medics, and
> firefighters, as god knows we need all the help we can
> get, vest might stop bullets, but the rest of us is
> uncovered so I like the idea of all the help we can
> get.
> fate

Amen. Might I also point out that yes, God should be worshipped and prayed to above all else. But, if we ask the saints in heaven to pray for us, then even when we're NOT praying to God, they may still be praying for us. See what I mean?

Peace and prayer,
Gabriel

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