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Date Posted: 10:03:04 01/15/03 Wed
Author: TruthRuth
Subject: Credit where Credit is due..

I have yet to see one post where anyone has recognized the tireless and obviously effective work by TOT and the coaching staff to get this team to where they are... for the past three years it was open season on them and now that they are 5-0 in the MAAC, not one of you "pot-shotters" has the class to give credit where credit is due.. only 30 weeks ago you were all calling for his head, and now... silence ...

TOT will prove to be one of the top coaches in NCAA history - it is just a matter of time... and patience is obviously not a virtue recognized by the Stag posters on this board..

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Replies:

[> Re: Credit where Credit is due.. -- Champ, 10:52:41 01/15/03 Wed

Many have recognized his recruiting ability, and lately I mentioned his tough early schedule would prove to help our RPI and possibly influence some tournament committee decisions later this year.

Critics were impatient, but I feel most would agree that FF fans had to endure TOT's own learning curve as he grew into a head coach.

More experienced coaches may have delivered a couple more wins with the same past teams, but I never questioned TOT would get there eventually.


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[> Re: Credit where Credit is due.. -- Old Man Maac, 10:53:09 01/15/03 Wed

At this point I don't know if I agree with the last line of your post but I do agree with most of the rest. Forget 30 weeks ago, how about as recent as Nov. 23 2002. The same folks were screaming for his head, screaming. Nothing shuts the dimwits up like winning, and this team is going to win a lot more this year, with arguably the best returning nucleus for next year. TOT and staff are doing a great job, it has taken a little longer than hoped, but they have the ball rolling now. Come on dimwits, you know who you are, lets get rid of TOT!! Better yet, stay off the board, its been much nicer without you clowns.


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[> [> Re: Credit where Credit is due.. -- StagHer86, 12:44:12 01/15/03 Wed

I agree. I have always believed in TOT's ability. I see the intensity with which he coaches. The players are now playing with that same intensity. I only wish that I can watch at HarborYard without the same TOT-bashers screaming "This team is TERRIBLE" or with booing TOT. A true Stag fan will stick with the team thru the bad and the good. FU has positioned itself academically, not athletically, over the years. As long as we play with HEART, I will be a loyal fan. Go TOT and the Stags! It is always a nail biter for me.


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[> [> [> Re: Credit where Credit is due.. -- Stagman, 12:53:33 01/15/03 Wed

I am ecstatic about the team's start, but let's be realistic. They haven't accomplished anything meaningful...yet. TOT's first year started off 11-7...and finished 12-15. Let's not be so hasty in canonizing him.

I wish him all the best and want nothing better than to see this team at the top of the MAAC, but it is way too early to say that everything has been fixed.

Sorry if that sounds negative, but as far as I am concerned, it is realistic.


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[> [> [> [> Results and Continuous Improvement -- JoeStag, 13:54:17 01/15/03 Wed

I have always had the hope that TOT would be a good coach. My confidence has waivered over the years, but I have always given him the benefit of the doubt that he would be successful. I have been consistent in saying that the team has underacheived in the past because of the lack of true guards on our team. The lack of those true guards were attributed to specific mistakes that TOT had made (Clark, Price, Galvanoni, Robertson)...... and he has paid for those mistakes. But, I firmly beleived that once TOT got some decent guards, then those guards would help make him successful.

I think we are NOW seeing what type of coach TOT can be with decent guards, even though our guards are inexperienced, and none of them are averaging in double figures. Just think how good we can be when our guards start to average double figures. Someone who is as dedicated as TOT, and does the right thing for the players academically and enforcing rules, will succeed in the long run.
TOT has improved in all aspects of his coaching, and will still need to improve more. But the bottom line is Results, and I feel that TOT has done an great job in getting this team to 9-5. If we can finish the 2nd half of the year strong with continuous improvement by the Frosh, then I would be estatic...... and best of all, we even have a brighter future.

Results and Continuous Improvement..... thats what I am looking for, and thats what we are getting.


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[> [> [> [> Re: Credit where Credit is due.. -- threepointer, 22:52:57 01/17/03 Fri

Realistic....Did folks really think Tim could fix the problems of the past 30 years of our program in his first 5-6 year stint? Realistic is knowing it takes years to build a program. Program's like Duke's were not made overnight. I've been following this team since the 80's and I don't know of a coach since who has a better pedigree or who has done more to build the program than TOT...Not to mention- the guys a graduate of this University...Who do all the head callers think they are going to get as a head coach that is going to work harder or care more about the progarm and University than him? Plus show me a MAAC team that plays a tougher schedule than us...Our out of conference play may not have helped us in our stats but it certainly has been a bonus in our recruiting efforts...Let's be "realistics" we may all know FU is a great place to go to school- but I can't imagine it's the easiest place in the world to recruit to. And -I'm beginning to question the support he and the team has from the administration...apart from the fact that the students pay $5 a ticket to get in a game - has anyone seen Fr. Kelly at Harbour Yard yet?
I got a give OToole credit. He's doing the right things and he's building it. I'm not calling for cannonization- I just think we have to give him and the team a little more credit and support...


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[> [> Ummmm OMM -- Tony, 13:05:11 01/15/03 Wed

I think you should look at what other teams have returning before you proclaim Fairfield to have the best returning talent. We all remember your statement last year about Fairfield having the best 3 players in the league, I guess you kind of forgot about Mario Porter ( POY) and Dwayne Archbold ( MAAC tournament MVP) , not to mention Kennedy and Flores who were both better than anyone Fairfield had.

As for next year Siena loses 1 player, Manhattan loses only a few bit players and Iona has everyone returning plus a couple of Big East transfers. I think you might want to rethink your statement, much to early to say Fairfield has arguably the best returning nucleus, although I do agree Fairfield should be good, my point is the whole MAAC at least the top of the MAAC should be vastly improved, there are very few seniors players starting for any of the MAAC contenders


I like Fairfield’s talent and I think you guys are contenders this year, but at this point that’s all I give you lets hold off on proclaiming Fairfield’s place in the MAAC until we face each other a few times


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[> [> [> Take it easy Tony -- Old Man Maac, 14:43:00 01/15/03 Wed

Re-read the post Tony. Manhattan, Iona, Siena all will have good players returning, and on paper, if Jeff can keep all his guys happy, Iona will have quite a team next year. FF has some pretty damn good players, and DG is the best player in the league, his contributions go well beyond #'s. As far as last year, I was wrong about Spann, he was awful, but none of those guys you mention were or are better than AD and DG.


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[> [> [> [> No problem OMM -- Tony, 15:23:58 01/15/03 Wed

Hey personally OMM I think it's great as improved as the MAAC is this year, I think we will be much better as a league next year, and this year is pretty darn good, when is the last time this late in the year that you remember the MAAC having 3 top 100 teams, according to today's RPI Siena 89,Fairfield 91 and Manhattan 94

Should be some great battles in the MAAC not only this year but next year as well


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[> [> [> [> [> Question -- Old Man Maac, 15:29:57 01/15/03 Wed

Will the league be good enough to get an at large bid next year?? That is the true measure of a quality mid-major conference. I think it will be good enough.


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[> [> [> [> [> [> Re: Question -- Tony, 17:35:20 01/15/03 Wed

I don’t know about an at large, but hey one never knows. All I know is Manhattan, Siena Fairfield and Iona all project to have excellent teams next year, So if any one of the four were to break out and have a great year and then get upset like Manhattan did 6 or 7 years ago the last time the MAAC got a At large bid. The other thing is I wouldn’t be surprised to see a MAAC team win a NCAA game. Looks like MAAC hoop fans are going to be in for a at least a couple years of very high quality basketball


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[> [> Re: Credit where Credit is due.. -- RayS, 14:31:28 01/15/03 Wed

Don't you ever learn or are you just incapable of not being nasty. Since I respect the rules JS has instituted for posters on this board I won't reply in kind, however, if you have the guts give me your e-mail address & I'll tell you exactly what I think of you. Mine by the way is rfsamz@aol.com


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[> Re: Credit where Credit is due.. -- RayS, 14:24:32 01/15/03 Wed

Obviously you haven't been reading all of the posts. As one who has been critical of TOT in the past I made it a point to give him credit for the great start this year.

As to past criticism, frankly it was richly deserved. My specific criticisms were based on the lack of improvement and TOT's demeanor during games which reflected poorly on the University. In fact TOT was taken to the woodshed by Doris on that score, and as I recall told at the end of last year "Its time to put up or shut up"

To his credit TOT has risen to the challange & I am glad he has since it means we're winning. That does not mean past criticisms were unjustified. In fact those criticisms, from those of us who are alumni, are always justified when anyone connected with the Univ. does not uphold the high standards we insist upon.

You unfortunately seem to possess a meanness that goes beyond being critical
. I refer to your post below suggesting the student body be banned from attending games. If that statement wasn't so ludicrous it might bear further comment. Hopefully the team will continue to improve so that the students will have a reason to spend their precious time & financial resources going to games.

Also remember one half of a successful season does not mean TOT is the 2nd coming of John Wooden. I'll give him credit for what he's accomplished so far & will not hesitate to be critical where warranted.


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[> [> Re: Credit where Credit is due.. -- Old Man Maac, 14:45:00 01/15/03 Wed

Ray, You're a punk. Actually go to a game, then feel free to comment you schmuck.


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[> [> [> Re: Credit where Credit is due.. -- RayS, 14:58:03 01/15/03 Wed

I will attend a game and I'll be sure to look you up. Inotice you didn't have the intestinal fortitude to accept my offer not that I'm surprised.


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[> [> [> [> Thanks, RayS -- STAGAL, 18:22:10 01/15/03 Wed

So far I had been the only one to speak up against the appalling comment of TRUTH RUTH below about banning students from games. Next, TOT is the being compared to the John Woodens and Dean Smiths of basketball. Unbelievable! The nonsense of namecalling (dimwits, etc.) and other profanities should also stop. Aren't we supposed to be on the same side?? We may not agree on a number of issues, and that's what makes the world go round, but we should treat each other with respect on this board. As far as I can remember, I have been to every home game and many away games since the STAGS went D1 in 1965. I doubt there are many of you on this board that can say that. I know that Running Man and Rave go back at least that far. Please weigh in on some of the issues raised here. Thanks.


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[> [> [> [> [> Re: Thanks, RayS -- RayS, 19:10:52 01/15/03 Wed

Thanks to you for helping put it in perspctive. OMM is right I, unfortunatly don't get to see many games in person since I live in the mid-west. That's one reason I read virtually all the posts on this board along with on-line newspaper accounts.

I find it interesting that the 2 posters who seem to reflect a mean spirited approach are not alumni. One can only hope that their affiliation with this board will one day cause them to absorb some class. In the meantime Go STAGS.


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[> Not everyone has been critical of O'Toole -- JCM, 14:34:08 01/15/03 Wed

First of all there have been right along others on this board that have been supportive of Tim. And while I for one don't agree with every move Tim has made I posted as recently as last week supporting Tim's philosophy of playing 10 deep. In addition to the good play of Garcia and Delficco that everyone wanted benched, last night it was Kudjo's turn to go 8-11. Without his play we lose that game. Where are all the posts calling for KS to sit now? And would KS have been ready to play when bell got sick if he had been relegated to the back of the bench?

So yes, O'toole has done some good things and yes, there has been some recognition of this by posters on this board. But the best coach in the history of the NCAA? Well, as much as I love Tim personally, he still has a little ways to go (like about 700 wins) before we can bestow on him that honor.

I hope you are right and that Tim has a long and successful career. He is a great recruiter, and has improved in his game coaching abilities as well as his ability to put together a balanced. With that said, some of the past critism of Tim has been justified. He has not demonstrated the game coaching abilities of a Paul Cormier or a Mitch Buonguoro. When he has won it is because he has put together superior talent. He also failed to adequately recruite depth at the guard position before this year.

Anyway, I for one am a little more balanced in my view. Tim is not the best coach in the history of the NCAA nor is he the worst. He has built this year a balanced team of players who all seem to be good people, who get along and have great chemistry together. For the reason I believe the best is yet to come.


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[> Nonsense -- Truth George, 14:43:26 01/15/03 Wed

The problem is Truth Ruth, even though many posters have been wrong about TOT and overly harsh, you also show pro-O'toole bias I could only expect from his wife or mother. Which are you?

Your statement that TOT is the next coming of Dean Smith, smacks in the face of 4 seasons worth of evidence so far. He may become an excellent coach, but I think we can safely assume the all time great NCAA coaches made it through their first 4 season with a 500 record.

I would like to be positive about TOT and I am. But your extreme positions forces me to put a critical view on a guy who is leading a team to a very good season.


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[> Re: Credit where Credit is due.. -- changeman, 14:46:57 01/15/03 Wed

TOT has always been able to get very talented players to FFLD, even if they are not the best academically, but coaching is another thing. it's great as a 15 year fan to see a good record so far..but be realictic everything has gone FFLD's way...they stole the game from Iona, NC Wil. was dead tired after an tough overtime game & traveling the next day, Yale played in San Francisco, flew back the next day & then played FFLD a very tired team. also the MAAC is extremely weak..only a few good teams Manhattan, Iona & siena so lets be realistic. this team should lose no mre than 4-5 games more. also under TOT how many players have improved?? Clark? Logan? Thompson? etc. They have a great deal of talent & wiinspite of their coach who loves to take out a player as soon as they get hot ( only Deng is the exception) it's like he has a time chart in his p[ocket..every so many minutes a player comes out no matter how well he is playing.
I hope the Stags keep winning but get real TOT will never be one of the best coaches in the MAAC much less the USA>


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[> [> Re: Credit where Credit is due.. -- Fair Play, 15:31:06 01/15/03 Wed

I have to agree. Although Ffld is having a great season I think there were other factors, besides TOT, that contributed to their wins. Remember there haven't been any blowouts and a few times we have just scraped by. The talent on the Ffld bench is overwhelming, I think there are numerous coaches who could have brought the same results to the table. This team will be tested in the next few games and I think then we will all be able to give TOT a fair assessment.


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[> [> Re: Credit where Credit is due.. -- The Wizzard, 15:31:58 01/15/03 Wed

Imagine if Fairfield was 10-0 in the MAAC. O'Toole would already have a plaque in Springfield.


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[> [> [> Re: Credit where Credit is due.. -- jenningsbeach, 16:46:31 01/15/03 Wed

If Fairfield goes 10-0 in the MAAC, I'll pay for the damn plaque and drive it to Springfield myself.

There's a loooooong way to go this season, including 7 games vs. the MAAC's top tier (Manhattan, Siena, Iona and Niagara). I still think 12-6 is about right. But it's beyond lame to disparage quality wins vs. Wilmington and Yale because those teams were "tired" and to say we "stole" the game from Iona. Please. Travel is part of the deal in college hoops. These kids are 18 to 22 years old; they can take it. As for Iona, games are never decided on one play. Iona had 40 minutes to take care of business and not be in a position where a late foul could put them in peril. Fact: Good call or not, Michael Bell hit 1-of-2 to TIE the game. Fact: Iona still had 5 minutes to WIN the game. Fact: We KICKED THEIR ASS in overtime. Hey, Iona gets their shot at revenge on Saturday. Maybe it's their turn to kick our ass.

Some posters may get carried away bashing Tim, but I think a lot of the criticism is warranted. Mistakes have been made in the past five years, and it's been frustrating to see the program struggle. Don't forget, it was Fairfield AD Gene Doris who put Tim on notice this year—not the 15 or so posters on this board.

That said, I'm really happy for Tim. No one is rooting for him more than me, and I'm hopeful that he and the Stags have turned the corner. Let's face it: The best thing for the future of Fairfield men's basketball is for Tim to be successful and enjoy a long career on North Benson Road.


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[> Re: Credit where Credit is due.. -- Menzies, 18:51:30 01/15/03 Wed

Just read all these posts. Lots of good observations. Lack of guards. Some of his game coaching has improved, some would say that was easy to do. He has recruited. Standards are high and consistent. Bench behavior seems to have improved...lets see after a loss or two. If they lose last night, this thread could be non-existent or just as long in the opposite direction.

At 9-5 on Jan 15, it seems TOT has bought himself at least one more year. I think we are all Stag faithful and hope the team does well. In my mind, things are looking up but the jury is still out.


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[> [> Re: Credit where Credit is due.. -- RayS, 19:17:11 01/15/03 Wed

Good points, especially regarding TOT's improved behavior. Could it be that by berating the refs less he has concentrated more on what is going on on the court thus improving his coaching skills? If so then the criticisms on this board were helpful.


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[> [> [> Re: Credit where Credit is due.. -- Old Man Maac, 22:35:28 01/15/03 Wed

Putz, go to a game. You know as much about what goes on in the FF b-ball program, and at the games as you do about what goes on in the oval office.


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[> [> [> [> Re: Credit where Credit is due.. -- RayS, 08:09:13 01/16/03 Thu

Mighty brave when you're anonymous we'll soon see if you have any guts when we're face to face.


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[> [> [> [> Re: Credit where Credit is due.. -- Menzies, 17:22:33 01/16/03 Thu

And the putz would be RayS or myself?


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[> [> [> [> [> Re: Credit where Credit is due.. -- Running Man, 17:47:37 01/16/03 Thu

OMM and RayS, you guys are getting me all worked up. I foresee the 2003 version of "The Thrilla in Manilla" in the offing and I'll soon be taking bets on the outcome. Got to go now. Time to get to work with the medicine ball and to hit the heavy bag.


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[> [> [> [> [> [> Re: Credit where Credit is due.. -- RayS, 19:21:53 01/16/03 Thu

If you're going to wager

Here's ahint that's major

That old man maac

Will beon his back

In two or less

And that's without my best


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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: Credit where Credit is due.. -- Old Man Maac, 21:16:52 01/16/03 Thu

Schmuck, Go to a game. I crap tougher than you.


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[> [> [> [> [> Re: Credit where Credit is due.. -- Running Man, 17:52:04 01/16/03 Thu

OMM and RayS, you guys are getting me all worked up. I foresee the 2003 version of "The Thrilla in Manilla" in the offing and I'll soon be taking bets on the outcome. Got to go now. Time to get to work with the medicine ball and to hit the heavy bag.


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