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Date Posted: Friday, February 08, 12:33:04pm
Author: Sludge
Subject: Re: No "point" in this one
In reply to: Cindy Crawford 's message, "No "point" in this one" on Friday, February 08, 08:31:28am

Thanks again Cindy for a balanced report. Wonder how the coaching staff performed in this game. Maybe someone attended that could provide us with a critical insight into the "teachings" here.

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Replies:

[> [> Re: No "point" in this one -- Cindy Crawford, Friday, February 08, 01:28:29pm [1]

Hard to know what's going on inside the huddle.Players still appear to be listening intently. All are schooled when they return to the bench. Whether or not they are getting the message if there is a message, cannot begin to be determined here.
One thing evident last night was an even more rapid substitution pattern than usual.Perhaps the coach is just looking for someone who can play,or a hot hand. Nine players each had at least seventeen minutes.

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[> [> Almost sounds like bait -- Peacock, Friday, February 08, 04:24:07pm [1]

I'll only make three comments.

Sowell first does not handle crisp passes and he takes a siesta before he makes any decision on what to do with the ball after he gets it. The multiple teaming are as much a product of his lack of speed as it is by competitive design.

A comment made to me cited the difference in the two offenses. Loyola speeds the ball around perimeter until the open shot results while every SPC player has to stop look around to see if he has an open shot or pass it to next guy. A little exaggerated but you get the point. Criticism on lack of assist attributed to the PG must also assign much of the blame for the rest not being in a position to put anything home. Statistics can mislead and while I will not defend the PGs, much of the problem also lies with the rest of the team.

Has anybody taught defense. This team rivals Leckie's first year.

Take what ever you want from these comments about teaching, but please don't give me this dumb player analysis. While statistics can mislead they still lead to a standard distribution. And while this is a small sample size and could be an abnormal distribution for basketball IQ, it then is the 2nd year of same.

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[> [> [> One thing is clear -- Sludge, Friday, February 08, 05:22:21pm [1]

You're seeing what other's are seeing on the court. Now for the discussion on the cause(s).

Hard to see how this statistic is misleading. Out of 19 field goals, 16 unassisted, none from the point spot. Doesn't this also lead to a standard distribution?

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[> [> [> [> Re: One thing is clear -- jajk, Friday, February 08, 06:29:19pm [1]

stats can support just about anything. The first eight games when Dunne's coaching did not yet show its full impact on these kids: total team assists-104; assists for Leon and Lampley-42. Now that Dunne's coaching is really being reflected in the new guys' play over the last eight games: team assists-58: assists for Leon and Lampley-26. Again, no point guard operates in a vacuum.

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[> [> [> [> [> Re: One thing is clear -- oldtimer#1, Friday, February 08, 07:26:19pm [1]

The observation that no point guard operates in a vacuum is undoubtedly true. But if we are swinging the pendulum to promote another agenda i.e. we don't need help at that postion then I say bring Leon back. He shoots better, drives to the basket better (much better), has proportionally more assists and plays equally well (or poorly) on defense. Of course, I'm saying the above half seriously.


The new agenda seems to be it's Dunne's fault, that Lampley has not been given a chance... Reality is that there is blame to go all over. We are playing shorthanded with players who are not only freshmen but not as skilled/good as our opponents. There has been no senior leadership and the coach is not above criticism or responsibility. Bottom line, it's a lot of things and everything AND IT IS OBVIOUS THAT THERE ARE HOLES TO FILL.

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[> [> [> [> Funny how you don't understand -- Peacock, Saturday, February 09, 12:21:11am [1]

that if a teammate doesn't present himself in a position to score nothing is going to result. Lampley made a beautiful pass on one play that went right through the frontcourts hands.

The key to statistics is understand the data and its generation, of which you seem not to want to do. Wonder if that supports your agenda.

One might say the plays only call for unassisted field goals or do you fail to consider that as a potential. Even with poor guards one might think assists would come from just the ball movement. The lack of same is more indicting.

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[> [> [> [> [> Does your infallability come directly from the Divine -- Sludge, Saturday, February 09, 03:55:03pm [1]

You are incapable of absorbing any thought other than what already fits your biased agenda. Rather than admitting that there exist a number of causes, you immediately seek to put forth some unfounded premise that, if unchallenged, allows you to draw to your already established conclusion. A balanced perspective is not in your makeup. If one tries to put forth several thoughts for consideration, your response is to call them out for their alleged inconsistencies.

Since Lampley made "one beautiful pass" that went through a teammates hands, then your logic concludes that he is a passer/point guard, and only suffers due to the inability of others to execute. Or perhaps Dunne should have had someone with better hands at the other hand. Poor Darrell, we have made him the whipping boy for all our woes.

One has to wonder why you ever ask questions when you already have the answers. Choose your agenda, close your mind to other opinions and everything will safely follow suit.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> Lets be realistic -- Peacock, Saturday, February 09, 04:51:01pm [1]

You see problems behind every tree. You don't challenge or explain away what even you see You just attempt to play the GOD of judgement and balance. As I have said before, have you ever had an opinion of your own other than that the other guy is wrong or right. Personally I am a disciple of Ockham. Yes there are other problems but are they the root cause. The fact that you have a problem distilling down your observations is your problem and you continue to demonstrate it by constantly attempting to expand a singular example into a conspiracy or agenda. Why do you fail constantly to rebut the fact that the team does not provide themselves for assists and only blame it on Leon or Lampley. Did you miss that. Hell under a decent system assists would result just from being there regardless of the quality of the guards. Try putting your perceived expertise on the game rather than guessing at agenda or conspiracies. I have the feeling you have no clue to what you think of this team.

The balanced perspective is not in your make-up as you chose to hold on to failures until they slap you in the face. You showed it in the Leckie era and you show it here. Your real problem is your inability to understand that sometimes the most obvious is the reason and what you call observations has been very evident even to you but you chose to HIDE behind every excuse you can muster. If the man turns it around I’ll back him up, but what you have seen so far doesn’t deserve the Bullshit you spout as support. One will wonder when you would actually ever make a decision on the team. I think we may have to wait for someone else to tell you what that should be.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> You drown in your own minutia -- Sludge, Saturday, February 09, 08:10:22pm [1]

You persist in misrepresenting my views. You deride others but you don't put forth a solid position or statement other than to continually infer that all ills rest with the staff. Much like your free-spirited philosopher, Ockham, you attempt to reduce all to a simplistic cause, provided of course that it suits your predetermined purpose.

Unless Mr. Ockham is our answer at point guard, look for our problems to continue. Our shortcomings are many and have been reported. Your assaults add nothing to the discussion or help with a solution.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: You drown in your own minutia -- oldtimer#1, Saturday, February 09, 11:48:01pm [1]

Einstein's comment on Ockham's razor: "It is vain to think that the simplest theory is the correct one'

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Like this is the Theory of Relativity -- Peacock, Sunday, February 10, 02:23:14pm [1]

It's not rocket science and I doubt Einstein was talking about the lowly science of basketball. In fact the theorm goes, "All other things being equal," This is not always the case in the world Einstein inhabited, but is more applicable to the SPC program.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: You drown in your own minutia -- oldtimer#1, Sunday, February 10, 05:12:24pm [1]

Didn't know that they played basketball in Ockham's day, either.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> No one misinterprets your views -- Peacock, Sunday, February 10, 02:16:26pm [1]

You have no views. I imply that apologists like yourself will seldom touch the scared cow and blame totally the players. You acknowledge all the observations and still have a problem commenting on the coaching. Instead you take the cop out and claim other issues. For whatever reason you have serious issues extracting the issue of coaching from your convoluted concepts. Hell even here you imply that a PG will solve the problem. Shallow to the MAX. You must be a thrill at your own meetings.

Why don't you step up to the plate and list the things you like about the coaching you have seen. If you don't have any, I never invited you comment. You entered on you own, and cried that you were derided. I'll tell you why you can't, you need someone else to tell you. You spend more time assigning agendas to other's opinion and inventing reasons why this team shows little to no promise. I don't give a damn about what you think, but when you can't put forth a supportable comment stop attacking others. Yes and this with two players that had prior MAAC All Star team recognitions and a promising sophomore. Wonder what you extraneous reason are for their lack of contribution.

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