re: Armada & Energon -- FawnDoo's Cavalcade of Whimsy

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Date Posted: 03:25:27 02/07/04 Sat
Author: Defiant
Subject: re: Armada & Energon
In reply to: Goktimus Prime 's message, "Armada & Energon" on 01:35:39 01/17/04 Sat

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While I agree that Armada figures generally weren't as poseable as CR/RiD figures, you're ignoring the fact that these toys were loaded with more gimmicks, which in themselves enhance playability.
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I am not ignoring the fact that the line had gimmicks. It is that I found the gimmicks to be so lame that they did nothing for me to enhance the playability of the toys. Transformers IMO never needed gimmicks cause the gimmick is that they transform in the first place. Yet Hasbro keeps trying to add gimmicks to the toys. With the exception of combining transformers (which is the major gimmick for Energon) gimmicks usually hurt Transformers far more than help them IMO. You disagree and think the gimmicks were cool, fine, to each their own.

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it was done well enough to appeal to children. That's right, children, still the dominant market demographic for this toyline.
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Transformers are for children can be used to debate many of the faults with Armada, including the playschool colors and most of all the show. Still my post was about MY opinion of Armada, NOT how the kids feel about the line. I have already acknowledged that the line was a hit with kids.

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The quality and detailing of the sculpts are really good. There is so much detail sculpted into some of these robot modes - e.g. Starscream, Skywarp, Wheeljack. Take a close look...it's absolutely incredible.
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There is some good sculpt detail on some of the toys. However paint jobs can make or break a toy no matter how detailed the sculpt is, and IMO, the horrible paint detail broke it on most of the toys. The toys are also hurt from many of them not having the transparent lights and windows that RID had, as well as loosing the rubber tires.

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As far as "realistic" vehicle modes go, having futuristic non-realistic alt. modes is _nothing_ new to Transformers.
Hello Shockwave, Omega Supreme, Jetfire, Insecticons and Dinobots, anybody?

By time the post-movie line rolled in (late 80s), the line was dominated by non-realistic tech vehicles.
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I am well aware that futuristic vehicles as well as alt modes other than vehicles are nothing new to transformers. My complaint about realism had to do with the detail of the toys, not the concept of the toys.

As far as the post movie line, yes that was similar to Armada. For the most part we lost rubber tires and transparent lights and windows, while the vehicles sported bright playschool like colors. However this is when I myself began to loose interest in Transformers, as well as many of my friends.

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I've been collecting some of the Go-Go-Gobot figures, and Armada is anything BUT PlaySkool.
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I look at RID Xbrawn next to Armada Red Alert, and look at RID Sideburn, next to Armada Hot shot, and the RID toys look like model cars, and the Armada toys look like playschool toys.

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While these are certainly features that enhance the cosmetic look of the toy, it doesn't make Energon Hot Shot any more "real" than Armada Hot Shot, since neither vehicle appear to be based on a real car like a Mazda RX-8 or something.
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Again, that is your opinion, but I disagree. Looking at Energon hotshot's window, and headlights, i see a window and headlights. Looking at Armada Hotshot's window and headlights I see paint. This is on top of the overbright color is why Armada Hotshot looks like a playschool toy to me and Energon hot shot doesn't.

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Hang on... just because you don't like Armada, you wanted it to FAIL? Why would you wish for a Transformer line to fail, just because you don't like it? If Armada failed, it would've hurt the overall franchise, and we may not have had Energon.
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I belive my exact words were "I am kinda upset that Armada did so well." Not that I wanted it to fail so bad that it would put an end to Transformers. Armada was the most succesful TF line since early G1 and that concerns me as I was afraid that Hasbro seeing how much of a profit they could make with poorly written cheaply animated TV shows, with poorly painted toys with low articulation would make Hasbro put no effort into making a good show, artuiculation, and paint detail into the next line. My fears thankfully have not happened.

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You say that Armada was one of the most successful lines using a poor cartoon. True (mind you, a lot of that had to do with the really poor dubbing - watch Micron Legend some time with an interpreter some time and notice the difference between the two shows when watching it in its original language) - but the G1 cartoon wasn't terribly brilliant either.
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I have read reviews from people who speak Japanese that have also said that the show is "painful to watch. The animation itself however was crap, and not on par with many anime 5 years old, much less anime now.

As far as the G1 comparison, I agree with much of what you said, but another thing that puts G1 way ahead for me is that I found the characters likable, and was indifferet to or didn't like most of Armada's cast. Likable characters can make a lame story enjoyable. Lame characters make a lame story worse.

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I noticed that you neglected to comment on Dreamwave Productions' Armada comic series. What did you think of that?
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I only read the first 6 of each (though I do plan on catching up through paperback collections). G1 pretty, but story was OK at best. Armada, pretty damn good and WAY above the show. I did not read the end yet so I am not familer with the anti climactic ending you are reffering to.

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I'm reserving judgement until I've either seen the show or read the comics. But from the images I've seen from the show's official site on TV Tokyo... I can't wait to see it!
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What I meant by CGI cartoon, is by fully CGI like that Beast Wars and Machines were. It is an expensive route to go, and now that Armada was such a hit with such a low budget show, I don't see Hasbro pouring that much money into a show again.

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Replies:

The Hasbro Factor -- Goktimus Prime, 22:49:38 02/07/04 Sat