*sigh!* -- FawnDoo's Cavalcade of Whimsy

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Date Posted: 17:41:32 11/22/04 Mon
Author: Perceptor II
Subject: *sigh!*
In reply to: Goktimus Prime 's message, "Gyaaargh!" on 22:00:26 11/20/04 Sat

P2, I read up those Bible passages you mentioned (John 1:1-5, John 1:15 and Matthew 1:20) - none of these passages actually state that Mary was married to God.

I literally slapped my forehead when I read that.

However, those passages do contradict two claims you've made:

1) that God "created" Jesus at "the first Christmas". John 1:1-5 say that "the Word" "was with God in the beginning". John 1:14 makes it clear that "the Word" is Jesus. Jesus already existed even before the creation of the world.

2) that Mary and Joseph were married at the time of Jesus' human conception. Admittedly, the language of the KJV is a bit confusing here (using the word "espoused", but still Matt 1:24-25 makes it clear that they weren't married yet), but most modern translations make that pretty clear.

#2 isn't really that important here. What point #1 makes clear is that Jesus existed before he took human form, and that the "Father/Son"* relationship existed beforehand as well. Since God (the Father) did not need Mary to create or become the father of Jesus (God the Son), it appears safe to say that something other than sexual intercourse happened is Jesus' earthly conception. Something miraculous, to which the usual mores about sexuality and "wedlock" simply do not apply.

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Replies:

In Nirvana -- Goktimus Prime, 23:53:18 11/22/04 Mon