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Date Posted: 22:42:45 12/04/02 Wed
Author: Vitaliy
Subject: Re: ïåðåéäåìî â³ä òåðì³íîëî㳿 ç ³ñòîð³ºþ äî ïðàêòèêè
In reply to: Òðåéòÿê 's message, "ïåðåéäåìî â³ä òåðì³íîëî㳿 ç ³ñòîð³ºþ äî ïðàêòèêè" on 20:24:51 12/04/02 Wed

Ùîñü ÿ ïåðåñòàâ â³ä÷óâàòè íàïðÿìîê ðóõó.
Îòæå, ÿ çàïðîïîíóâàâ âèä³ëèòè äâ³ ãðóïè ñë³â "ºâðå¿-æèäè" òà "³óäå¿-þäå¿" òà íå âæèâàòè ¿õ ÿê ñèíîí³ìè. Ç Âàøèõ ïîÿñíåíü âèäíî, ùî ïåðøà ãðóïà á³ëüø çàãàëüíà òà çäåá³ëüøîãî âêëþ÷ຠâ ñåáå äðóãó. (Ïðèêëàä Õàçàð³¿, äå ³óäåéñòâî áóëî âèçíàíî îô³ö³éíîþ ðåë³ã³ºþ íàâîäèòü íà ðîçäóìè: þäå¿ - íå ºâðå¿; ³ñíóþòü òàêîæ ïîä³áí³ ðåë³ã³éí³ ãðóïè â ï³âí³÷í³é Àôðèö³).

Á³ëüøå ñë³â áóëî ñêàçàíî ïðî ºâðå¿â-æèä³â. Îò âæèâàëè ñëîâî æèä äî ñåðåäèíè 19-ãî â³êó, à ïîò³ì ïî÷àëè âæèâàòè ñëîâî ºâðåé. ß ïðîòå íå â³ä÷óâ ÿêèõîñü îñîáëèâèõ çàïåðå÷åíü ïðîòè òàêî¿ çâ'ÿçêè.
Äî ðå÷³, â àíãë³éñüê³ ìîâ³ ñëîâî ºâðåé (Jew) âïåðøå ç'ÿâèëîñÿ â ñëîâíèêó â 1845 ðîö³.

Ïðî ãåáðå¿â Âè âæå âèñëîâëþâàëèñü äåê³ëüêà ðàç³â; ÿ ïðàêòè÷íî íå çãàäóâàâ ñëîâî. ß á ùå äîäàâ ³çðàåë³ò³â (ñèí³â ²çðà¿ëÿ) äî îäíîã ðÿäó ç ãåáðåÿìè.

Ïðèíöèïîâå çàóâàæåííÿ îäíå: ÿ íå çíàþ ÿê çâó÷èòü ñàìîíàçâà ºâðåÿ. Ç öüîãî é ïî÷àëàñÿ íàøà ðîçìîâà. ×óäîâî âèäíî, ùî Jew ç í³ìåöüêî¿ ìîâè ìîæíà ëåãêî ïðî÷èòàòè ÿê "ºâ". Öå íå íàáëèæຠíàñ äî ñëîâà æèä. Yedish (³äèø) çâó÷èòü ÿê "ºäèù", çíîâó æ, ç àíãë³éñüêî¿ ìîâè. Hebrew (³âðèò) çâó÷èòü ïðèáëèçíî ÿê "õ³áðþ". Õòîñü ³ç çíàéîìèõ ñêàçàâ, ùî òàê ºâðå¿ é íàçèâàþòü ñåáå, îäíàê ïî-ºâðåéñüê³.

²íøå çàóâàæåííÿ - öå ïèòàííÿ: à ÿê æå ñëîâî ïðèéøëî â óêðà¿íñüêó ìîâó? ×è âîíî áóëî çàïîçè÷åíå ÷åðåç îäíó ç ìîâ ïîñåðåäíèê³â, ÷è áåçïîñåðåäíüî â³ä íîñ³¿â? ßêùî ÷åðåç ïîñåðåäíèê³â, òî îðèã³íàëüíå çâó÷àííÿ ìîæå áóòè ñïîòâîðåíèì. Íàâ³òü ÿêùî â³ä íîñ³¿â, òî óêëàäà÷³ (ïåðåïèñóâà÷³) ë³òîïèñ³â ìîãëè íå çíàòè òî÷íó âèìîâó (ñàìó ìîâó). Íåòî÷íî çàïèñàíà âèìîâà ìîæå ñòàòè íîðìîþ äëÿ íàñòóïíèõ ïîêîë³íü, à ìè ïîò³ì ïî÷íåìî äèâóâàòèñü ÷è ÷óáèòèñü.

Á³ëüø çàãàëüí³ ïèòàííÿ: ùî âîíè äóìàþòü ïðî ñåáå òà ùî ìè äóìàºòî ïðî íèõ? ßê âèäíî ç ïîñòàíîâêè ïèòàííÿ, ñï³ëüíèé çíàìåííèê ïðàêòè÷íî íåìîæëèâèé.

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