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| Subject: Re: JOURNEAY'S RED COCHISE | |
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Author: Danger Author Host/IP: 63.230.30.234 |
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Date Posted: 23:16:46 05/30/06 Tue >i WONDERED WHY THIS LITTERMATE BROTHER TO GERONIMO II >HAS NEVER BEEN DISCUSSED VERY MUCH, even THOUGH he is >A CLEAN SPECIMEN OF THE OLD FAMILY RED NOSE blood, >DOWN from THE GERONIMO X RED DIXIE BREEDING ... >**As a stud dog, he may have not been discussed very >much, due to the limited breeding exposure. When >there is limited information about a dog, I tend to >look at what breedings the owner performed. This can >give you some idea of what direction the owner saw fit >to take the dog too. If the dog is worthwhile, a >gamedog breeder will take it to competitive, working >blood. If anything worthwhile comes of that game-bred >litter, the dog will usually be in demand. You should >see additional breedings. >In hindsight, a look back should then reveal some >consistent winners behind the various breedings. If >the dog was not worthwhile he would not have been used >much. >The only point of reference on Cochise is that he was >bred once, to a ¼ Staff dog. > >MARTIN CEASAR, AN OFFSPRING OF COCHISE, HAS BEEN >PLAYED DOWN BY JUST A FEW BREEDERS, WHO USUALLY ARE >WORKING WITH OTHER LINES AND BASE THEIR CONCLUSIONs ON >SPECULATION ... >**I was around when Martin Ceasar offspring where >being tried. >There were some people using OFRN blood that liked >this cross, as compared to most straight OFRN dogs of >that time, the Ceasar offspring had a stronger >constitution. >A cross will typically add vigor and I think some >breeders of that time believed the vigor provided by >Topsey Turvey was an improvement and therefore, bred >it back into the OFRN blood. >Personally, I think that when you are going to breed >back into a bloodline, you should use blood with a >history of producing good prospects, from a proven >subject. >The blood should be the best available, as you are >looking to improve the future of your bloodline. >Based on the breeding choice and then the historical >information available on the various offspring, it >looks as if the greatest, most consistent contribution >by Martin Ceasar was to the Tufftown line of UKC >show-stock. > >The folks who were trying to use straight OFRN stock >in the late 70’s and early 80’s as combatants, knew >that the line needed a little boost. Instead of >Topsey Turvey, I would have liked to have seen a cross >that would have had a chance to continue producing >good dogs down the road and not just a one-time vigor >shot that had some staff blood. > >I tried to stimulate a conversation once, when I >pretended to turn back time and asked the board what >they would have bred to Hemphill’s Geronimo, with the >intent of bringing that offspring back into their OFRN >line. Interestingly enough, nobody responded by >saying Topsey Turvey. > >When these Martin Ceasar offspring were being tried in >the sporting arenas, they were not top end. More >importantly, they were not producing competitive dogs. > That’s why outside of some OFRN hopefuls, nobody used >it. I have SDJ’s ranging from the early 70’s to the >late 80’s. There are few Martin Ceasar dogs in that >entire span of time. > >History cannot be changed. >One thing that bugged me back in the late 70’s was the >smug UKC show people that acted like they had >something really special with their Tufftown dogs. >Of course they were against dog-fighting because they >owned a bunch of curs, but when they talked about >their dogs, they spoke with this inner smugness and >floated the word “Hemphill” as if it was an earned >medal. This was back when the first Stratton book had >just been out for a little while and the tufftown >crowd took great pride that “Hemphill” blood was in >their stock, even though their breedings and >intentions would have made Bob Hemphill turn over in >his grave. Mallard that was a good post. You sort of touched on what I have said in previous posts. I'll try to explain again what I said before that all OFRN lines aren't created equal. Once you start looking at the peds of your dogs ask yourself these questions. 1.) Why did the breeder breed dogs period? a. Was it to peddle? b. Was it to maintain the line?..i.e. testing and culling. c. Was it to improve the performance through matching dogs? 2.) Did the breeder breed to performance dogs(winners, champions & gr.chs.). 3.) Was the breeder a performance breeder? Known for producing winners, champions, ROM dogs and etc. 4.) How many breeders or owners do you see on your peds within the first 4 generations? This shows the many or few directions the dogs were culled, tested, matched or peddled. Mallard you also touched on vigor which alot of people don't understand. Anytime you cross lines or familys you will get some vigor from that first initial breeding but the dogs will ALWAYS resort to the average of both lines. Unless there is a prepotent producer in the mix that can consistently produce dogs that produce his or her traits. When you start looking through some peds of some OFRN lines you will notice alot of crosses to the Sarona dogs. It provided some fresh blood (vigor) but never maintained any consistency that's why some breeders kept crossing back and forth. Only slightly upgrading the quality of their original dogs and never to the point of consistently producing match dogs. JRB don't get bent out of shape I just used the Sarona example because of it's popularity with OFRN breders. Same could be said about Wilder and the crosses he used. Testing and culling won't improve a line it's only maintaining and over time will decrease the quality. The reason why is because of the evolution of better pit dogs. [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ] |