VoyForums

[ VoyUser Login optional ] [ Contact Forum Admin ] [ Main index ] [ Post a new message ] [ Search | Check update time | Archives: [1], 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 ]
Subject: Fred4 to Matt


Author:
Fred4
[ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]
Date Posted: 21:55:47 10/02/09 Fri
In reply to: Matt to Fred 's message, "Re: Mom keeps trying" on 16:40:44 10/02/09 Fri
 It's too bad that you felt shame toward the girls at age 14, though totally understandable. They saw this guy that just four years earlier they had seen naked getting an enema. Obviously you had absolutely zero to do with what happened to you at that four-year earlier time. Nonetheless, if you and they thought each other was good-looking at age 14, probably the earlier images would enter both of your minds. That alone would certainly not adversely affect your sexual feelings toward them. If for some of them that did not adversely affect their feelings toward you, then probably you might consider it a complement in a rather unusual way (but again, unusual not for any reason of your doing).

That still sounds like a completely normal response on your part, and maybe a bit more than casual (in a complementary way) on the part of those girls who at age 14 returned your interest.
[ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

Replies:
[> [> Subject: Fred4 to Matt: Converse


Author:
Fred4
[Edit]
Date Posted: 07:37:22 10/03/09 Sat
Matt, consider those girls who earlier saw you get your enemas and who at age 14 you felt a sexual attaction but it wasn't necessarily mutual: Maybe some of what you felt toward them was that they had seen you naked in what was also a very personal situation (getting an enema). It's not surprising that that alone could generate sexual feelings toward them on your part, even if otherwise you wouldn't necessarily feel a sexual attraction toward them; that strikes me as totally normal on your part.

If some of them had no sexual attraction toward you, that's not surprising, since there are a lot of people to whom one is not sexually attracted. If the absence of sexual feelings toward you by some girl was because she saw you get an enema, that's something for whatever reason was in her mind but not your responsibility.

Also, again back to your sexual feelings toward them: Not only had you had to appear naked before them four years or so earlier, but you had to be shown before them taking something as highly personal as an enema, and also encounter their reactions to your reactions while getting the enema. If that would stimulate your sexual feelings toward them four years later, that is a zero surprise event.

Again, your reactions seem totally normal, but the fact you had to have an enema performance before them four years or so earlier was not normal - however that latter was absolutely none of your own doing.

[> [> [> Subject: Re: Fred4 to Matt: Converse


Author:
Matt
[Edit]
Date Posted: 10:54:50 10/03/09 Sat
Fred I understand fully what your saying. Honestly though, I don't think when I was 13 or 14 did I find the girls sexually attractive, it was a different kind of sexual attitude I had, it was specifically those girls, it was just that a girl had seen me as a younger child getting an enema.
I presume to some this whole thing is not a big deal since like my mom said, I was only a child.
To put another light on this and wonder how any male readers would of reacted to this situation.
When I was older, 13 and 14 or so, I had to attend a function like a wedding or something of that nature with my parents. I distinctly remember this happening on two occasions. Remember this is about 4 or so years after my mom stopped giving me an enema with her friends around or their kids. Saying that, the girls were now approximately anywhere between 16 to 18 years old when I was 13 or 14. I was at a wedding and one of the girls who had seen me get an enema was there also. I remembered who she was and kept a far distance from her and didn't want her to see me, but I was outside with a couple of other kids just talking and kidding around. This girl who was a friend of my moms came over from behind me, we hadn't seen each other in a few years. When you start to get older you don't go out with your mother as often as you used to, so after a year or so when the enemas ended, I didn't see her that much when her mom came over the house. She came over to me and said "you're Matt right?" My heart started beating a mile a minute, "I say yea" she said "Do you remember me?" I said "yes" her name was Chrissy or Kristy something like that, she was probably 16 or 17 years old. Then what I dreaded the most because there other kids there she came out with it, she asked me "Do you remember me watching you get an enema when you were little?" with a grin and a little giggle with it. The other 2 kids I was with looked at her and then me. You know the saying, if there was a hole near by, you want to jump in it and cover it up. I said softly "yes", she then said "you were so cute!" She then said "see ya" and walked away..one of the kids I was with didn't even know what an enema was. I also walked away from them and felt so embarrassed. This happened another time, but it was my female cousin who had watched me when I was younger get an enema. Almost the same thing as the first time with the other girl. After that, I tried talking my way out of going to these big affairs where these girls may be attending.
At 13 or 14 you just don't laugh it off as you would if you were an adult. I was still embarrassed by them saying that, especially when other kids my age were around.
[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Fred4 to Matt: Converse


Author:
Matt to NWC
[Edit]
Date Posted: 13:32:01 10/03/09 Sat
In my last post this line, "it was specifically those girls" should of read, "it was NOT specifically those girls"..maybe that would avoid some confusion in what I was trying to convey..

First, yes I do blame my mother for doing what she did, but then again, and remember this, at the time she had NO idea what she was instilling in me. I know, I could tell, she never thought giving me an enema with her friends around was in any way a big deal BEING the age I was. She had always thought that up until I was about 10 or so, I was her "baby". You get what I am saying? She had thought that no way what she was doing would have ANY effect on me, then or in the future. To her it was just a simple home remedy for what ails you.

What my life would be like if I never had an enema? Really don't know. As a child I knew what enemas were from hearing mom her friends and my aunts talk about them. It's hard to say, I probably would not be writing on here for one and those embarrassing moments when I got older would never of happened. Honestly though, I am no worse for the wear as they say. I cope and live with it. What can I say.
[> [> [> [> Subject: Further to Matt


Author:
Fred4
[Edit]
Date Posted: 19:50:47 10/03/09 Sat
Matt, Sorry I'm a little slow in understanding the situation you felt (not in your relating it, but in my understanding), but I appreciate the discussion. I think I do understand now. (I also understand you handle things very well, as reflected in your attitude, and the mere fact of lingering feelings is probably solely as a result of what happened to you - not something to feel strange about.)

I can understand you felt like digging a hole when embarrassed by the girl at the wedding you attended. Teenagers often say things more to try to be funny or to generate a reaction, without thinking of the impact on the person affected. That sounds like that was the case then, and if she had proper consideration, she should not have said what she did. In fact, you say you weren't necessarily attraacted to the girls who saw you get enemas, because that had been an embarrassing situation.

Yet you say you did have sexual feelings at around age 14 caused by the earlier witnessed enemas. Any idea as to specifically why is speculation on my part, but intuitively I can understand that to be the case. Most people want sexual fulfillment, and if there is an event impinging on it, one becomes aware of it but has the sexual feelings nonetheless.

You and I have commented on our respective situations often enough on the site that we have an understanding of some of one another's reactions.

Maybe an event with related feelings, but entirely unrelated events, to me was as follows: As I've been over, I had much too massive enemas, though at a doctor's prescription when having a typical childhood illness. I felt some strong feelings, seemingly sexual at the time, when kids my age said they had no trouble taking enemas. I envisioned their enemas as the same size and type as mine (later analytically, but not emotionally, realizing they could not have been), but they (and later others who looked like them) seemingly to me handled it well while I didn't.

I was playing with one of these kids and others at his house one time, and had to go to the bathroom. In that bathroom, I saw an enema bag drying out on a hook on their bathroom door that was higher (implying greater enema pressure) than the high hook on my bathroom door from which my enemas were given. I felt especially weak-kneed, because that was further evidence to me that that kid did handle them better than I.

While I then, and later, had these attractions to both females and males who were or looked like these "perfect" kids, if I were pressed, would I want to have sexual relations with either the females or males? Delving a bit more grossly in my mind, I would conclude yes with the females, but they would not consider that with me since I was imperfect and couldn't handle the enemas they could. For the males, absolutely not (and I would have been grossed out at the thought), yet why the feelings?

I think the one similarity in our outlook was that the sexual feelings we felt were triggered by our respective enema situations as a kid. In my mind, there must have been something wrong with me that I couldn't handle the childhood enemas well, yet that later generated sexual feeling in me. At the same time, those sexual feelings were not fully rewarding, because that was not the right base upon which to build sexual feelings.

In the above, I may be speaking solely for my situation, and have yours totally wrong. If so, I very much apologize.
[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Fred4 to Matt: Converse


Author:
andre to matt
[Edit]
Date Posted: 08:17:46 10/04/09 Sun
dear matt, I've got suppositories and enemas from my neighbour and her older daughter often in front of her younger daughter (same age as me, and my class mate) or other school peers until almost 18.

The most embarassing were the medicated suppositories given to me before being driven to school. I was teased during the ordeal and then the thing was shared by the daughter with everyone in the class.
[> [> [> Subject: Re: Fred4 to Matt: Converse


Author:
No Wonder Check
[Edit]
Date Posted: 11:28:40 10/03/09 Sat
No wonder there are so many people that developed an enema fetish from their childhood enemas that their mother gave them. I don't think the mothers had a clue to what they were doing to their child. Has anyone thought what their life would be like if they had never had an enema?
[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Fred4 to Matt: Converse


Author:
Agreed! (Amazed!)
[Edit]
Date Posted: 07:00:32 10/04/09 Sun
You make such a really profound valid serious point and very interesting question hypothesis. I have struggled unsuccessfully with that very question for too many years unfortunately.
[> [> [> Subject: Follow on to above comments


Author:
Fred4
[Edit]
Date Posted: 10:56:19 10/04/09 Sun
I think there have been some great points by others in the above topic.

A key one seems to be that there were never have been the follow-on stress if we were not given childhood enemas (or for Andre, suppositories). One of the comments to me above was that the unnecessary childhood stress was far worse than any alleged benefit (which benefit is truly doubtful) from the childhood enemas and that they were largely stopped after the 1960s as a result. I think that analysis may be right on target.

One thing that might be a benefit to those of us affected is to develop an assertiveness that of necessity could not have been realistic when a small kid subject to the enemas. One can start by picturing in your mind's eye if you had your adult's mind when subjected to the enemas. In my case, the second time I was prescribed an enema by the doctor for a childhood illness, I would have said something to the effect of, "The last one was horrible. How much water should I be getting in my enema, what is the appropriate temperature for that water, how high should the bag be above me so I don't get painful pressure, should the tube be cleared out of air first, and if I get cramps, should it be stopped until the cramp is fully dissipated?"

Obviously, I didn't ask, nor could I reasonably be expected at the very young age to ask, those questions. However, it is useful because because it can help to build one's assertiveness presently. Certainly if I were back in that position with my present mind but as a small child then, I would have asked those questions.

There were loads of actual (not theoretical as the above) missed opportunities along the way, which I use for observation, not, other than initially, kicking myself now. In particular, at one time one of my college roommates and I started a discussion on how we found childhood enemas uncomfortable, and he emphasized he even got one his senior year in high school. I really could have talked more frankly than I did about how I felt as a kid, especially the images I build up of others handling them perfectly; I doubt he would have thought me absurd.

(Matt, maybe you have thought of the wedding where that girl came up to you and embarrassed you about seeing you get an enema a few years back. I imagine you could now envision yourself instead taking her on the side after her comment and saying you were not the cause of her seeing you get the enema, you hated that situation when it happened, and that you wish she hadn't needlessly embarrassed you about it.)

The one situation though that I regret absolutely the most was that in high school I got very close to a girl with whom I felt incredibly close to on a personal basis, and toward whom I felt strong sexual attraction. This continued into the start of college, but then when that started to be reciprocated I just cut off. (Again, the situation for me was that as a kid I encountered other kids who found nothing unusual about their enemas, and yet mine were highly traumatic; I then put them and others who later looked like them on a pedestal while I viewed myself as flawed to have reacted to the enemas the way I did.) Okay, what happened with me and this girl, was that I thought didn't she see the flawed person I was, and that therefore unlike what I felt, mustn't she be similarly flawed? Crazy, I know, but I can see the emotional thought pattern I had.

I later married someone else, but still felt very strongly about this girl, who also married someone else. I once wrote to her a few years back, alluding to emotions grabbing me at the time which I would do anything to undo, but I wasn't specific.

I know this sounds totally crazy, but I feel I must close what I started, only giving the specifics of how my mind created "perfect" kids as my means of coping with the childhood enemas. She may think I may have totally lost my mind, but I would feel infinitely better to do that.

Sorry for the seeming craziness of this. I hope some readers can understand.
[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Follow on to above comments


Author:
Mycroft
[Edit]
Date Posted: 11:33:31 10/04/09 Sun
Fred, you're not crazy. I stepped away from a perfectly wonderful lady because of (two) perceived "flaws" which might or might not have become thorns in a marriage. Too, as her husband has since died, I muse writing to her to carefully explore whether these "flaws" would have been actual impediments. The flaws were klismaphilia and an expectation of an early death.
We both grew up in the late thirties and early fourties. There's a possible double (and tragic) irony here, don't you think?
[> [> [> [> [> Subject: TWO FLAWS


Author:
samantha
[Edit]
Date Posted: 12:24:21 10/04/09 Sun
Write to her - write to her, Mycroft.

You don't know what you might have missed, or from what you might have benefited. She would be thrilled to have you bring up, 'old times.'
[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: To Samantha


Author:
Mycroft
[Edit]
Date Posted: 10:07:25 10/05/09 Mon
I will write to her. Bless your heart for being sensitive to the possibilities. Perhaps something of interest to this forum will occur.
[ Contact Forum Admin ]

Forum timezone: GMT-5
VF Version: 2.94, ConfDB:
Before posting please read our privacy policy.
VoyForums(tm) is a Free Service from Voyager Info-Systems.
Copyright © 1998-2008 Voyager Info-Systems. All Rights Reserved.