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| Subject: O, if american capitalism is so great, why are capitalists selling america, and selling it short!!!!!! | |
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Author: jw |
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Date Posted: 11:02:09 11/12/07 Mon In reply to: Oropan 's message, "You need a large cowboy tinfoil hat today!" on 05:11:22 11/06/07 Tue When central banks have to impose trading curbs to prop up a failing currency, you expect it to be a failing third world economy, like argentina or indonesia in 1998, not the united states dollar. The fact that the american currency now must be proped up in the most draconian fashion is a clear indication of the failure of american capitalism. the decline of the american currency would be called a crash if we were talking about an asian or latin american country, the dollar has lost almost half it's value against many currencies since 2,000, this is unprecedented. I don't know if there have ever been trading curbs placed on the US dollar overseas to prevent it's further crash, this may be a new low. Notice that even columbia had to impose curbs on dollar selling. Wow, american capitalism is such a great system!!!! Central banks resort to capital controls Bloomberg / Mumbai November 13, 2007 Central banks from Bogota to Mumbai are imposing foreign-exchange curbs to take control of their soaring currencies from traders dumping the dollar. In Colombia, international investors buying stocks and bonds must leave a 40 per cent deposit at Banco de la Republica for six months. The Reserve Bank of India created a bureaucratic thicket to curb speculation by foreign money managers. The Bank of Korea is investigating trading of currency forward contracts to limit gains in the won, now at a 10-year high. Instead of using currency reserves or interest rates to influence foreign exchange markets, central banks and finance ministries are setting up obstacles to keep the falling dollar from threatening company profits and economic growth. The US currency slumped 10 per cent this year against its biggest trading partners, the steepest decline since 2003, while Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson has reiterated that the US supports a “strong’’ dollar. “Central banks are struggling to find new ways to intervene against their currencies and some of the proposals simply can’t work,’’ said Mirza Baig, an analyst in Singapore at Deutsche Bank AG, the world’s biggest currency trader. Some plans are “truly bizarre,’’ he wrote in a report. The US hasn’t attempted to stop the decline as the worst housing slump in 16 years forced the Federal Reserve to lower interest rates. The dollar has weakened 19 per cent against the Canadian currency this year to a record 90.58 cents, and fell 18 per cent versus Brazil’s real. The euro strengthened 1.2 per cent last week and reached an all-time high of $1.4752 on November 9. It traded at $1.4560 today as of 11:22 a.m. in London. The yen rose 3.6 per cent last week, and it touched 109.61 per dollar today, the highest since May 2006. ‘More Violent Correction’ An index tracking the dollar against seven major trading partners dropped to 71.11 on November 2, the lowest ever, a week after the Fed reduced its target rate for overnight loans between banks by a quarter-percentage point to an 18-month low of 4.5 per cent. Stephen Jen, head of currency research at Morgan Stanley in London, said on November 2 that the dollar’s slide threatens to turn into a “more violent correction’’ that may require joint intervention by the US, European Union and Japan. The dollar will trade at $1.51 per euro by year-end, Jen said on November 8. The extent of the dollar’s slump reminds some traders of 1973, when former President Richard Nixon’s Treasury Secretary John Connally abandoned the Gold standard while the US was in recession and inflation exceeded 10 per cent. The dollar lost 40 per cent against the yen in the next five years. Since 2002, the US currency has fallen 40 per cent against the Canadian dollar, 33 per cent versus the euro and weakened 24 per cent compared with the British pound. Exports Increase There’s little evidence this year’s decline is hurting the economy. Gross domestic product increased 3.9 per cent in the third quarter, the highest since March 2006, the Commerce Department said on October 31. The annual inflation rate was 2.8 per cent in September, the Labor Department reported on October 17. The US trade deficit unexpectedly narrowed 0.6 per cent in September to $56.5 billion, as exports increased 1.1 per cent, the Commerce Department said November 9. The pain is being felt elsewhere. US sales for Hyundai Motor Co., South Korea’s third-biggest exporter, may decline for the first time in nine years with the won the “No. 1 obstacle,’’ Vice Chairman Kim Dong Jin said in an interview last month. The won’s 3 per cent gain in the past year helped send Hyundai’s shares down 9 per cent. Profit Squeeze Infosys Technologies , India’s second-largest software exporter, cut its full-year earnings forecast on October 11, blaming the rupee’s 13 per cent rise. The shares fell 24 per cent this year. >I doubt you could spend those euros or canadian >dollars at the local grocery store. And the average >person IS living better than their parents and >grandparents did. I know it's tough when you have >bought that big house and two cars and big boat and >other various toys. >Might have to put off one of those Caribeanen cruises. >Or you could cut back on those $5 coffees at >Starbucks. Or eliminate those expensive subscriptions >to the leftwing rags. > > > > >> There are alot of jobs around, they don't pay much, >>that's why most americans are working 2 jobs or >>massive overtime to make ends meet as prices surge and >>our paychecks don't keep up. Today a worker must work >>2 jobs to get what our parents got with one job a >>generation ago! >> >> The dollar is at all time lows now, it is falling >>rapidly not only against the euro and the canadian >>dollar, but also against many third world currencies >>like the leftist-socialist countries of south >america. >> >> Our real estate bubble is collapsing, and now there >>are fears that our credit card bubble is about to >>collapse, $3 a gallon gasoline before cristmas is >>going to do wonders for that! >> >> Capitalism is a fraud, it is vulontary slavery, >>people willingly work harder and harder and get less >>in return, and are brainwashed into thinking we have >>it better than anyone else, when in fact we are >>becomming like el salvador. Americans are gradually >>waking up to the fact that our economy and society is >>a failure, life has become much harder since the >>"reagan revolution", and the bush years have seen an >>acceleration in the decline of america. >> >> A single chinese company is now valued at a >>trillion dollars, i believe the entire US stock market >>scam is valued at 15 billion dollars, petro china is >>now valued at 7% of the entire US stock market scam, >>kruschev was right, they are burying us, but it is the >>chinese and not the russians. American capitalism >>sold the chinese dictatorhip the rope they are using >>to hang us, nice work capitalist failures! >> >>>The economy is fine with high job growth last quarter >>>and inflation is historicly low. Currencies go up and >>>down and the euro had been in the dumpster and has >now >>>come back but the dollar is pretty high against the >>>Yen. Interest rates are at alltime lows and that is >>>the reason for the dollar drop. That will change in >>>time. Union goons like you should cheer a low dollar >>>as it might help factories here compete. >>>BTW, I find it funny that your tinfoil hat might have >>>a made in China tag. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> Is that tinfoil hat made in china by slave >labor? >>>>Is a capitalist business crook profiting as he >raises >>>>prices to the stratosphere? >>>> >>>> Socialism will never work in america like it does >>>>in europe, that's why the dollar is collapsing >>against >>>>the euro, and most other currencies, while inflation >>>>is rampent in america. That's why many investors >are >>>>getting their money out of dollars, rich people want >>>>their money in socialist euros, not capitalist >>>>dollars. >>>> >>>> Americans are beginning to wake up to the >failures >>>>of capitalism, as they struggle to pay for the >>rapidly >>>>rising cost of health care, food, education, and of >>>>course fuel. Our greed-based society is a failure, >>>>that's why our currency and economy is collapsing. >>>> >>>>>I guess it's tinfoil hat day for you! >>>>>How come you weren't as worried about the people of >>>>>Sadam's Irag? >>>>>The modernization of China will bring lots more >>>>>freedom there. Stuff like that doesn't happen >>>>>overnight but once it starts, there will be no >>>turning >>>>>back. Is this just an offshoot of your WalMart >>rants? >>>>>Your brand of socialism will never succeed here in >>>the >>>>>US. People here expect freedom and will never >submit >>>>>to your kooky government controlling ideas. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> I guess O doesn't know that china is one of the >>>>>>most repressive dictatorships in the world, it is >>>>>>rather hysterical that he thinks a company like >>>petro >>>>>>china will make them free. And petro china works >>>>with >>>>>>the chinese government to support the sudanese >>>>>>government, which is committing genocide against >>>>>>millions of it's own people, all for oil. Again, >>we >>>>>>see capitalists working with dictatorships to >>profit >>>>>>off their genocide. As america has sadly pumped >up >>>>>>the chinese dictatorship with free trade, we are >>now >>>>>>suffering the consequences with rapid inflation >and >>>>>>the loss of middle class jobs. No society run by >>>>>>greed will prosper for long, ours is now >>collapsing. >>>>>> >>>>>>>So it is our free maket capitalism that makes >>Petro >>>>>>>China a demon! I guess you like a hardcore >>>communist >>>>>>>government better. How dare we allow all those >>>>people >>>>>>>in China to have a taste of freedom and the >>ability >>>>>to >>>>>>>improve their lives....no matter how little that >>>>>>>freedom might be at the present time. >>>>>>>Anyway, now you lefties have a new BIG OIL to >>>hate. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> And you thought it was exxon mobil. Petro >>>china >>>>>>is >>>>>>>>now valued by "the market" at 3 times the total >>>>>>>>valuation of exxon mobil, nothing beats a >>>>capitalist >>>>>>>>enterprise working with one of the world's most >>>>>>>>repressive dictatorships. Petro china aids and >>>>>>abetts >>>>>>>>the genocide in sudan in order to aquire oil. >>>>Let's >>>>>>>>thank our "free trade" capitalist fanatics for >>>>>>>>building china into the super power it now is, >>>they >>>>>>>>could not do it without the useful idiots of >>>>>american >>>>>>>>capitalism. Kruschev was right, they are >burying >>>>>us! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>PetroChina's Value Tops $1 Trillion, Surpassing >>>>>Exxon >>>>>>>>(Update5) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>By Ying Lou >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Nov. 5 (Bloomberg) -- PetroChina Co. almost >>>>tripled >>>>>>>>on its first day of trading in Shanghai, >becoming >>>>>the >>>>>>>>world's first company to be valued at $1 >>trillion, >>>>>>>>more than Exxon Mobil Corp. and General Electric >>>>Co. >>>>>>>>combined. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>PetroChina shares rose to 43.96 yuan from the >>sale >>>>>>>>price of 16.7 yuan, giving the state-owned oil >>>>>>>>producer a greater market value than the entire >>>>>>>>Russian stock market. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>The rally makes PetroChina shares four times >more >>>>>>>>expensive than those of Exxon, even though >>China's >>>>>>>>biggest oil producer has a quarter of the >>revenue. >>>>>>>>China's stock market was valued at less than >$1.1 >>>>>>>>trillion before tripling this year and giving >the >>>>>>>>communist nation five of the world's 10 biggest >>>>>>>>companies. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>PetroChina's valuation is ``an indication of >>China >>>>>>>>coming of age and also of its stock market >>>>bubble,'' >>>>>>>>said Hugh Young, who oversees $50 billion at >>>>>Aberdeen >>>>>>>>Asset Management Asia Ltd. in Singapore. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>The oil producer's Shanghai listing pushes >>China's >>>>>>>>stock market beyond the U.K. as the world's >>>>>>>>third-largest. PetroChina trades at 55 times >>>>>>earnings, >>>>>>>>four times Exxon's ratio of 13 times earnings >and >>>>>>near >>>>>>>>the 58 times for Google Inc., the world's most- >>>>used >>>>>>>>Internet search engine. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>In Hong Kong, PetroChina fell 8.2 percent to >>>HK$18. >>>>>>>>Exxon shares rose 0.7 percent to $87.93, valuing >>>>the >>>>>>>>company at $488 billion on the New York Stock >>>>>>>>Exchange. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>`Sense of Responsibility' >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>``I feel very excited today and also feel a very >>>>>>>>strong sense of responsibility,'' Chairman Jiang >>>>>>>>Jiemin said at the Shanghai Stock Exchange. >>``This >>>>>is >>>>>>>>PetroChina returning to our investors and >>>>>society.'' >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Jiang struck a gong as the market opened at 9:30 >>>>>>a.m., >>>>>>>>then toasted the start of trading with a glass >of >>>>>red >>>>>>>>wine. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>China's largest oil and gas producer had 20.5 >>>>>billion >>>>>>>>barrels of oil and gas reserves in 2006, >compared >>>>>>with >>>>>>>>22.1 billion for Irving, Texas-based Exxon, data >>>>>>>>compiled by Bloomberg show. PetroChina has been >>>>>>adding >>>>>>>>new reserves at an average annual rate of 5 >>>percent >>>>>>>>for the past three years, a faster pace than >>>Exxon, >>>>>>>>Royal Dutch Shell Plc and BP Plc, the world's >>>>>largest >>>>>>>>oil companies by sales. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>The share sale, the world's biggest this year, >>>>>>>>surpassed the 66.6 billion yuan raised by China >>>>>>>>Shenhua Energy Co. in September. PetroChina >>raised >>>>>>>>66.8 billion yuan selling 4 billion shares last >>>>week >>>>>>>>as investors applied for more than 3.3 trillion >>>>yuan >>>>>>>>of stock, almost 50 times the amount PetroChina >>>>>>sold. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Record Oil >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Those investors were until now prevented from >>>>>>directly >>>>>>>>buying PetroChina stock, missing out on a >15-fold >>>>>>>>surge as economic growth turned the nation into >>>the >>>>>>>>largest oil consumer after the U.S. and as crude >>>>>>>>prices reached a record $96.24 a barrel in New >>>>>York. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>The CSI 300 Index of shares listed on the >>Shanghai >>>>>>and >>>>>>>>Shenzhen exchanges has increased about 170 >>percent >>>>>>>>this year as mainland Chinese investors seek >>>>returns >>>>>>>>on $2.3 trillion of savings, raising investor >>>>>>concerns >>>>>>>>that the market is too expensive. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Billionaire investor Warren Buffett's Berkshire >>>>>>>>Hathaway Inc. sold its stake in PetroChina this >>>>>year, >>>>>>>>reaping an eightfold gain that contributed to a >>64 >>>>>>>>percent increase in third-quarter profit for the >>>>>>>>Omaha, Nebraska-based company. Berkshire had >2.34 >>>>>>>>billion shares as of the end of 2006, the >largest >>>>>>>>holding after state-owned China National >>Petroleum >>>>>>>>Corp. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Buffett said on Oct. 24 that Chinese share >prices >>>>>>have >>>>>>>>risen too fast. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>`Carried Away' >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>``It's easy to be carried away in the stock >>market >>>>>>>>when things are going very well,'' he said in >the >>>>>>>>northern Chinese city of Dalian. ``We at >>Berkshire >>>>>>>>never buy stocks when we see prices soaring.'' >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Gains in PetroChina's shares in Shanghai may >have >>>>>>more >>>>>>>>to do with Chinese investors seeking better >>>returns >>>>>>>>than the outlook for the company's exploration >>and >>>>>>>>production operations, or its refining business, >>>>>>known >>>>>>>>as downstream, said Larry Grace, an oil analyst >>at >>>>>>Kim >>>>>>>>Eng Securities Co. in Hong Kong. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>``Production is static with limited upside for >>the >>>>>>>>next three to four years,'' Grace said. ``As for >>>>the >>>>>>>>downstream, the price controls and overall >>>>>regulatory >>>>>>>>trend limit the company's earnings.'' >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>China controls fuel prices to shield consumers >in >>>>>the >>>>>>>>world's most-populous nation from accelerating >>>>>>>>inflation. The policy limits the ability of >>>>>>PetroChina >>>>>>>>and China Petroleum & Chemical Corp. to pass on >>>the >>>>>>>>burden of higher crude oil costs. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>The other Chinese companies that rank among the >>>>>>>>world's 10 largest by market value are China >>>>>>>>Petroleum, known as Sinopec, China Mobile Ltd., >>>>>>>>Industrial & Commercial Bank of China Ltd. and >>>>China >>>>>>>>Construction Bank Corp. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>``A-share prices don't reflect global benchmarks >>>of >>>>>>>>value,'' said Lorraine Tan, head of equity >>>research >>>>>>at >>>>>>>>Standard & Poor's Investment Services in >>>Singapore. >>>>>>>>``There should be other measures of a company's >>>>>>>>position, including revenue and profitability. >>>>>Market >>>>>>>>cap is not necessarily accurate.'' >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>PetroChina's share surge means it beat by years >a >>>>>>>>Russian pledge to create the world's largest >>>>>>company. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>OAO Gazprom, Russia's natural gas export >>monopoly, >>>>>>>>would become the world's largest company by >>market >>>>>>>>value and top $1 trillion in ``seven to 10 >>>years,'' >>>>>>>>Alexander Medvedev, the company's deputy chief >>>>>>>>executive officer, said in April. Gazprom's >>market >>>>>>>>valuation today is $296 billion. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>To contact the reporter on this story: Ying Lou >>in >>>>>>>>Shanghai at ylou1@bloomberg.net . [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ] |