VoyForums
[ Show ]
Support VoyForums
[ Shrink ]
VoyForums Announcement: Programming and providing support for this service has been a labor of love since 1997. We are one of the few services online who values our users' privacy, and have never sold your information. We have even fought hard to defend your privacy in legal cases; however, we've done it with almost no financial support -- paying out of pocket to continue providing the service. Due to the issues imposed on us by advertisers, we also stopped hosting most ads on the forums many years ago. We hope you appreciate our efforts.

Show your support by donating any amount. (Note: We are still technically a for-profit company, so your contribution is not tax-deductible.) PayPal Acct: Feedback:

Donate to VoyForums (PayPal):

[ Login ] [ Contact Forum Admin ] [ Main index ] [ Post a new message ] [ Search | Check update time | Archives: 1, [2], 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 ]

[ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

Date Posted: 18:28:44 10/11/04 Mon
Author: Brian Karcher
Subject: Re: UBF Doctrine
In reply to: Joe 's message, "Re: UBF Doctrine" on 15:30:10 10/08/04 Fri

>Let me add some of my rel=nofollow target=_blank >href=http://drchungj.blogspot.com/2004/03/summary-of-so
>me-of-ubfs.html>observations:
>
>A summary of some of UBF's biblical/doctrinal errors
>
>One of the biblical passages often used to justify
>UBF's much-criticized practice of leader-ordered and
>leader-arranged marriages is the Genesis 24 account of
>Rebekah and her marriage to Isaac. Rebekah is seen as
>exemplary because she made a choice to marry a man
>"sight unseen." An unmarried female member of UBF is
>seen as "obedient like Rebekah" if she can declare
>that she will marry anyone, any time, anywhere in
>obedience to the "servants of God" (her leaders).

Yes, this would be an act of faith (Hebrews 11:1). Not many can make such a pure decision of faith.


>Indeed, UBF members have been notified by leaders that
>they will get married, whom they would marry, when
>they would marry and where they would marry just one
>week or less prior to the marriage date set by the
>leaders.

Certainly, someone will cite examples of this happening. This is what I refer to on my website as the Korean/oriental influence that has at times affected some marriages. I also agree that the marriage process in UBF is more involved than most churches, who typically only perform marriage ceremonies, sometimes without even knowing the people they are marrying.

Most marriages I am familiar with in UBF, though, were quite different from what you describe. They had a preparation committee and made personal decisions. The bottom line is that you are responsible for your own marriage decision. In the end, each person must give an account to God--individually. I think it is good and healthy to involve your pastor or shepherd in the marriage decision.


[Unlike the Genesis account of Isaac and
>Rebekah in which their parents played a large part in
>the choice of marriage partner, in UBF the role of the
>"marriage candidate" recruit's parents in the marriage
>decision is usurped by the recruit's "shepherd" and
>ultimately by the top leaders of UBF.]

It is a challenge of how to involve parents, especially those parents who may have condemned UBF ministry before marriage. I have seen time and time again how parents were involved in a constructive manner.


>The neglect of children and family, a practice that
>UBF has been accused of in the USA and Germany, is
>often justified by comparing one's family and children
>with Isaac, whom Abraham chose to sacrifice in Genesis
>22. A UBF member's commitment to the group is seen as
>exemplary when they can "give up their Isaac," that
>is, when they are willing to neglect family life and
>even the care of their children to participate with
>full zeal in the UBF ministry.

Certainly someone could cite examples of this behavior happening somewhere in UBF. To give up your Isaac is a Biblical principle. The point, however, is not to neglect children, but to have the correct priorities and value system. My children are growing happy and healthy, and with a sense of God and the Bible.


>Samuel Lee, the late director of UBF, was often given
>status akin to Moses, a "visible" representative of
>God, who knew God's will at a much greater level than
>anyone else in the group. It followed then that UBF
>members who tried to challenge the abusive and cultic
>elements of UBF under Lee's leadership were compared
>to Korah and his followers (Numbers 16) or Aaron and
>Miriam (Numbers 12) and were said to be "rebelling"
>against "God's chosen servant."

Yes, I respected Dr.Samuel Lee as a servant of God.


>Romans 1:5 is often quoted by UBF leaders to equate
>grace and apostleship, such that a person's acceptance
>of God's saving grace is constantly called into
>question if they are not participating in the group's
>main mission of recruitment. Apostleship, as UBF
>defines it, is the only fruit of grace that UBF
>recognizes, contrary to what Paul writes in Romans
>12:6-8. As Samuel Lee often stated, "Those who have no
>mission (UBF apostleship) have nothing to do with God!"

I agree, those who have no mission have nothing to do with God. This mission is not required to be "serving in the UBF ministry" though.


>Jesus' pre-ascension command to Peter to "feed his
>sheep" (John 21:15-18) is interpreted into the demand
>on all UBF members to perform constant UBF-style
>evangelism, which is called, not surprisingly,
>"feeding sheep." UBF-style evangelism is an activity
>in which UBF shepherds "feed" the sheep (recruits).
>The result is that a person who is successfully
>recruited tends to become assimilated into UBF's
>pyramidal authoritarian structure, a structure in
>which a sheep remains a sheep to his shepherd and his
>shepherd's shepherds, regardless of how long he
>remains and serves in the organization.

Jesus' command is a command for those who would follow him to obey. I don't see that there is an "exclusion clause" for someone who doesn't want to feed Jesus' sheep. A shepherd/sheep relationship grows and matures as any other. It is true that a student will not be above his teacher, but will grow to be like his teacher: Luke 6:40 "A student is not above his teacher, but everyone who is fully trained will be like his teacher." (NIV)

Immanuel,
Brian.

[ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

Replies:



Post a message:
This forum requires an account to post.
[ Create Account ]
[ Login ]
[ Contact Forum Admin ]



Forum timezone: GMT-6
VF Version: 3.00b, ConfDB:
Before posting please read our privacy policy.
VoyForums(tm) is a Free Service from Voyager Info-Systems.
Copyright © 1998-2019 Voyager Info-Systems. All Rights Reserved.