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Date Posted: 08:16:58 02/13/05 Sun
Author: Chris
Subject: Re: The Changing UBF
In reply to: Sarah 's message, "Re: The Changing UBF" on 07:18:12 02/13/05 Sun

Many leaders have recognized their mistakes and truly feel sorry. Many have changed their ways.

The main problem with UBF defenders like you is that you always stay ambiguous. So far, we haven't got one single concrete name of such a leader, and we haven't got one single concrete example of what you considered a mistake.

Who are these many leaders? If they are many, you should be able to name at least one. What are these mistakes? Can you name one?

Were the forced abortions considered mistakes? Were the forced divorces mistakes? Who felt sorry for them? Was the treatment of the members in Bonn considered a mistake? Who feels sorry for them?

BTW, do you know the difference between mistakes and sins?

Do you know that if you sinned against your brother, the least thing would be to apologize? Where can I see a statement of apology of your leaders?

Are the reformers still considered "rebels" in UBF? Is the expulsion of the Reformers in Korea UBF 2001/2002 considered a mistake now? Who feels sorry for it?

You evade all concrete questions. You didn't answer Tony's questions nor the questions we raised earlier.

UBF people are like the rest - they are sinners and they are trying to improve.

Even if this would be true, you would only be like Buddhists or other religious people and even many unbelievers who also try to "improve". That's different from what you would expect from a believer in Jesus Christ.

People who believe in Jesus know they principally cannot improve their state as a sinner, thus they rely on Jesus and the power of his gospel to forgive and change them. But this is inevitably connected with confessing your sins and repenting. If you don't openly confess your sins and mistakes, repent and apologize to your brothers, then you have no part in Jesus. Christian life consists of repentance and sanctification. You don't need to start with sanctification if you don't have started to repent.

If we claim to have fellowship with him yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth. But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin. If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.

They don't respond to your emails because they recognize that even if they did, they will open up a dialogue that nobody can win.

What is so bad about a dialogue? Why do you think a dialogue has only sense if somebody can "win"?

That is in UBF and out of UBF, we are all sinners and we will make mistakes.

If this is so easy, why do you think Jesus had to die on the cross? Why did he challenge all 7 churches in Revelation? What did he expect as an answer from these churches? "We are all sinners and make mistakes"? Do you think this would have been a good answer to the following request from Jesus?

I counsel you to buy from me gold refined in the fire, so you can become rich; and white clothes to wear, so you can cover your shameful nakedness; and salve to put on your eyes, so you can see. Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest, and repent.

Sorry, Sarah, your stance only assures me that UBF has a deep spiritual problem.

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