Re: Systematic Obedience Training -- RSQUBF discussion forum

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Date Posted: 03:31:54 10/21/04 Thu
Author: Chris
Subject: Re: Systematic Obedience Training
In reply to: PECAS 's message, "Re: Systematic Obedience Training" on 19:45:44 10/15/04 Fri

Actually, Chris, I thought about one the archived posts on marriage by faith in which you discussed how Kaleb hid your fiance from you, wanted to cancel your marriage and expel you from UBF because you visited with your mother instead of attending the leaders meeting. I argue that Kaleb's reaction was so severe because you had been in UBF for many years, but would still not obey him absolutely. Kaleb may have thought "I bore with Chris for many years and he still disrespects me. He must be trained." Kaleb may have assumed that you had reached the point where you would absolutely obey and seek Kaleb's approval in all things. I do not think that Kaleb ever really intended to expel you, but to train you to not do anything in your life without his approval. Kaleb hoped you would then be conditioned that in the future you would ask him for permission for everything that you do, including when you could visit your family.

You are right. The point was whether I was absolutely obedient to him or not. Some clarifications: It was not that I decided to visit my mother instead of the leader meeting. My mother had already visited me. She was my guest and wanted to talk with me before my marriage. Since she lived far away and because of my UBF involvement I rarely had visited her and talked with her, and she intented to leave that day. So I skipped a meeting, which was an unimportant routine meeting, where we had to "share" how much Bible study we made and how much we are going to make and what we learned from Hong's message. I even informed Kaleb that I would be at home to speak to my mother. Now, look at the situation from both points of view:

My view: I believed that Kaleb was my friend. He had always tried to give me that impression. That he highly respected me and that I was somebody special. His real idea that he needed to be in full control of me, was not clear to me at that time. I alone was able to decide whether a personal talk with my mother was more important than that meeting or not. And I naively believed that Kaleb would respect my decision.

Kaleb's view: When I called him and told him I wanted to skip that meeting, he did not care about whether I made a decision based on my conscience or not. He only realized that it was the last chance to check my "absolute" obedience towards him. So he simply overruled my decision and commanded me to come to the center.

At that point, I was really shocked. I hadn't understood that the whole thing in UBF is about absolute obedience and control, but I had naively believed there was mutual respect. My mother who was standing close to me sensed that there was something strange going on and asked whether there was a problem. I did not want to give my mother the impression that I was living in a cult. So I said there was no problem and stayed with her. Still I did not think that there would be any problem. I had done nothing wrong. My poor mother had been in the center during the morning and for lunch, and now simply wanted to have some time to talk with me; it was the last chance before my marriage.

But that was not Kaleb's perspective. He did not care about whether I had good reasons and intentions or not. His only care was whether he had full control over me or not. When he saw that this was not the case, he immediately took action. When it is about the real sins of leaders, they always claim that "God is in control." But when it is about the imagined sins of sheep, they need to control and manipulate everything. My marriage was immediately canceled by Mr. Hong and he took my future spouse to another chapter in the VW Bus of the center. Only there he explained to her that I had become unspiritual and she had to leave Germany again.

When my mother wanted to leave that evening, she asked whether she could say goodbye to my fiance. So I called in the center, and then I started to notice something was wrong. I spoke with the wife of my chapter leader and she said "I don't know whether you are still in UBF." When I demanded to know where my fiance was, she lied straight into my face that she did not know.

I always had tried to give my mother the impression that UBF was not a cult. Can you imagine how hard that was when my fiance simply disappeared days before the marriage and I did not know where she was?

In retrospect, of course, this one incident alone is sufficient evidence to come to the conclusion that UBF is a cult.

And yes, you are right, it shows what UBF is all about: Conditioning people towards absolute obedience and having full control over them.

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Replies:

Re: Brian Karcher -- Amy, 11:34:43 10/21/04 Thu
- Re: Brian Karcher -- Chris, 11:44:59 10/21/04 Thu