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Date Posted: 06:05:48 10/11/04 Mon
Author: Chris
Subject: one of the biggest problems
In reply to: Olaf Theis 's message, "Re: UBF Doctrine" on 04:22:09 10/11/04 Mon

Thank you for joining the discussion, Olaf. It's good to have a UBF member confirm that there is a hierarchical structure in UBF and identify as one of the main problems.

The problem with UBF members is that the majority (mainly the Koreans) believe that strong hierarchical and authoritarian structures are needed and biblical. The problem is they would never debate about this. For them it is as clear as the fact that people have two feet. They would not even change their view if you point out the passages in the Bible and Jesus' words explicitely teaching the opposite.

And there are others (mainly the Non-Koreans) who want to solve the problem by simply denying its existence. They claim that submission in UBF is always mutual and not one-way. (Quote from Brian: "You mention a one way relationship, arranged like a pyramid. This is not the case.") They are living in a self-illusion and simply don't want to face the reality, just as the people in "The Emperor's New Clothes".

But it is good to see that there are still some people in UBF who would admit that there is a problem.

Unfortunately, I believe UBF's self-image is not even that of a company. It is that of a military boot camp. UBF members are considered as soldiers, UBF leaders as their superiors, Samuel Lee was the commander-in-chief. Please also read Nick's posting here and other quotes from Lee's messages in this context again.

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Replies:

Hey, Olaf! -- Bruce, 06:42:01 10/11/04 Mon
- Re: Hey, Olaf! -- Olaf Theis, 06:01:11 10/12/04 Tue
  - Left and forgotten... -- Chris, 07:24:23 10/12/04 Tue
  - Re: Hey, Olaf! -- bruce, 13:33:12 10/12/04 Tue
Re: one of the biggest problems -- Brian Karcher, 08:11:31 10/11/04 Mon
- We or them? -- Mike K., 09:07:00 10/11/04 Mon
  - Re: We or them? -- Brian Karcher, 09:10:49 10/11/04 Mon
    - Shepherds -- Mike K., 11:01:49 10/11/04 Mon
  - Re: We or them? -- Brian Karcher, 09:16:40 10/11/04 Mon
    - the command "be shepherds" -- Chris, 01:54:32 10/12/04 Tue
- ubf spies on younger members -- Nick T., 10:07:34 10/11/04 Mon
  - Re: -- Brian Karcher, 10:26:47 10/11/04 Mon
    - its not your 'either/or' -- Nick T., 10:35:46 10/11/04 Mon
  - Re: other reasons -- Chris, 11:00:15 10/11/04 Mon
- Salvation Army -- Chris, 10:39:20 10/11/04 Mon
- Re: one of the biggest problems -- Olaf Theis, 04:41:09 10/12/04 Tue
  - On soldiers and armies -- Chris, 06:23:16 10/12/04 Tue
    - Armies At Least Have Courts Martial -- former, 07:48:05 10/12/04 Tue