Re: Thoughts to your response... -- RSQUBF discussion forum

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Date Posted: 09:12:10 10/12/04 Tue
Author: Tom
Subject: Re: Thoughts to your response...
In reply to: Brian Karcher 's message, "Re: Thoughts to your response..." on 18:48:30 10/11/04 Mon

>There is no hidden motive
>that I have found in the last 17 years, after
>attending nearly every Friday meeting, fellowship
>meeting, Bible study, group Bible study, worship
>service and conference.

You're just fooling yourself here. Blindy blind blind!

>I have participated in communion and baptism. These
>are handled carefully and not done superfically as in
>many churches, so that they have real meaning. The
>reason, as I see it, is: 1 Corinthians 1:17 "For
>Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the
>gospel--not with words of human wisdom, lest the cross
>of Christ be emptied of its power."

You just put all four appendages in your mouth with that retort. Superficially? Real meaning? Where do you get off? It seems to me that you think UBF is the wonderfully most bestest ministry in the world, ever ever. How dare you judge the rest of the church in the world by saying that they do things superficially, especially communion! You don't know, and you shouldn't begin to think you know. That was an incorrect assumption you just made, and it further drives the point home that UBF is exclusive and elitist, and it thinks it is more holy than the rest of the universal church. Real meaning, malarkey! The only meaning behind communion for UBF is to put up a face of Christianity.

>I'll take this at face value. If freedom through faith
>in Christ is the doctrine, then it is freedom from
>what to what? We are freed from a life of sin to a
>life of obedience to Christ and serving God's mission.

Thank you for taking it at face value. You've got it right, in words. However, the "deep and spiritual" meaning in UBF is: "We are freed from a life of sin to a life of obedience to UBF and serving UBF's mission."

>Fear of UBF is not what I fear. I do fear God, though.
>I thank God for a ministry that is able to teach and
>plant the fear of God.

"Fear of UBF is not what I fear. I do fear Samuel Lee, though. I thank God for a ministry that is able to teach and plant the fear of Samuel Lee."

>I have gotten a second, a third and even a fourth
>perspective on things for many years. The conclusion
>for me is the same: UBF is an instrument of God's work.

Xlation: UBF is the only instrument of God's work, and we are the most bestest!

>I have attended services from a Catholic church, a
>Salvation Army church, a Mennonite church, and a
>Lutheran church, all while in UBF. They had some good
>points, but not one of them taught mission as a
>reality. Some of them did have some sort of Bible
>study. Most seemed to be social-oriented. I am not
>saying all churches outside of UBF are so bad, but my
>experiences did not move me to want to leave UBF
>ministry.

You mean, the mission of a "Kingdom of Priests and a Holy Nation"? If this is from God, then why haven't I heard about this mission in other churches? Does UBF have a special mission? Are they a "Special Ops" spiritual group? Look, everybody! Its the Jesus Christian Power Rangers, riding in on their Biblezords!

Another point: social-oriented is a buzz word in UBF for "non-mission". If they don't have a clear and special mission like UBF, they aren't a "real" church. You judge other churches based on your special mission, which is man made and not from God.

>So, we are to keep "church-hopping" until we find
>someone who will teach what our itching ears want to
>hear?

If you find a church that is sticking to the truth, that is being led by the Holy Spirit, that is an encouragement to you, that is something you can flourish in, then look for that church. If the church you visit isn't one you are comfortable with, move on. Church is not about church, it is about worshipping God. If you visit a church that you don't think you could truly worship God whole heartedly at, then find the one that does foster your spiritual growth.

Itching ears? You'd better get that checked out. Might be fleas.

>I agree totally. It is possible that God would lead
>you away from UBF. God is not leading me in that
>direction.

Maybe He is, and you're just not listening to Him. Or, maybe He's not, because He knows you won't listen to Him.

>Just a side note, why do those who are
>anti-UBF stop emailing me when they see it is clear
>that I have no intention to leave?

Why? Because it isn't worth reasoning with the unreasonable.

>Isn't the real
>motive of this board to pull people away from UBF? As
>a student of the Bible, I would suggest finding a
>different mission, like pulling people toward God.

Yes, the real motive of this board is to pull people away from UBF, TO GOD. If people in UBF are having troubles, and they don't have anywhere or anyone to turn to, this is the place where they can go, anonymously, and find a new hope and a good alternative to their dilemma. Likewise, if we can challenge the mindset of people in UBF, if we can help those in UBF get an outside perspective, then we are pulling people away from UBF to God, from proud, legalistic exclusivists to people who are willing to change.

>This is the last post from me for this week.

What is that supposed to do? Make us feel bad? It's unnecessary, but it evidences the kind of guilt-oriented lifestyle of UBF's loyal members. How very sad.

***I know that I was a little rough on good ol' Bri, but he's been fighting everyone on this board, and will not concede any points. Why should he? UBF is the greatestest. It just seems like he isn't even trying to think outside of the UBF box, not seeing how it negatively impacted the people who left UBF, and how it continues to destroy families in and out of UBF. Brian and others like him needs to know that the direction and loyalty they are taking is just plain wrong. Unfortunately, though we have been warning them for the last 4 years here, they have not heeded us. I wonder where this will all go. It's been interesting, hasn't it? At least, we know that God continues to work for His good will. Where it goes, we don't know. But it is fun to be on the ride.

In Christ,

Tom

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Replies:

Double-talk and loaded language -- Anonymous, 17:46:15 10/13/04 Wed

Re: No double-talk, loaded language or code words -- Brian Karcher, 10:57:20 10/19/04 Tue

Theory and practice... -- Chris, 17:20:52 10/19/04 Tue
Continued double-talk and evasion of the issues -- Anonymous, 19:15:47 10/19/04 Tue