Re: The ministry of numbers -- RSQUBF discussion forum

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Date Posted: 09:05:29 11/10/04 Wed
Author: Brother in Christ
Subject: Re: The ministry of numbers
In reply to: Joe 's message, "Re: The ministry of numbers" on 18:12:21 11/09/04 Tue

Well said Joe. You are right in that everyone hates it and also right in that no one dares speak out against it. And yes it still goes on. There are now three huge boards posted. The offering board, the 1 to 1 board, and the conference board.

I say to those who have any fear of God to stand up and say no!! When asked who you studied the Bible with and report numbers for this or that, just refuse to be a part of it. Say you don't participate in fear and shame ministries. I have said that for years, and now they don't even ask me anymore, they even took my name off the 1 to 1 board. If you stand up and show you are a strong Christian these posers will break. The key is be strong and defend what is true Christianity. You will be amazed at how many think as you do, they just need a leader, be that leader and great things will happen. Cowards achieve nothing in this world.

>Great observations by PECAS. Much UBF abuse stems from
>this ministry of numbers. Some of my observations
>which apply to my length of membership (up to August,
>2001) and probably still apply:
>
>* Charts were everywhere. I don't know how prevalent
>the use of charts was in other chapters and how
>prevalent the use is now, but in Chicago the charts
>got more numerous and larger and larger over the
>years, especially the registration charts for
>conferences and the X-Mas spectacles. I have an idea
>of how the obsession with numbers and charts rel=nofollow target=_blank >href=http://drchungj.blogspot.com/2004_02_01_drchungj_a
>rchive.html#107673126566753894>originated.
>
>Philip Yancey in a book called "What's So Amazing
>About Grace," talks about elements of grace and
>"ungrace." Look at those UBF charts, clear and
>prevalent signs of ungrace in UBF.
>
>* Pride, prestige and punishments for failure were the
>motivators. A large number of something was always
>equated with something to be proud of and associated
>with prestige. People with many 1:1's always had
>praise heaped upon them at meetings. Conversely, the
>lack of numbers meant shame and loss of prestige. In
>such an environment it was unavoidable for pride, the
>desire for prestige/praise and the desire to avoid
>shame to become the prime motivators for anything.
>
>In Chicago, the rel=nofollow target=_blank >href=http://drchungj.blogspot.com/2004_02_01_drchungj_a
>rchive.html#107673126566753894>fear of punishment
>for failing to achieve numbers was also a huge
>motivating factor, especially so for fellowship
>leaders. If it was not the infamous "Skokie training,"
>it was verbal abuse by Sam Lee or public humiliation
>such as having the names of "promise breakers" written
>on the center chalk board. So, for most members, who
>generally were not going to ever belong to the 12 1:1
>club, UBF was a shame and fear-based ministry. Think
>about how toxic and ungraceful an atmosphere exists in
>UBF thanks to this obsession with numbers.
>
>For those who don't know what it was like for Chicago
>UBF fellowship leaders, I again recommend that they
>watch the opening scene of the movie, rel=nofollow target=_blank >href=http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0104348/>Glengarry
>Glen Ross, a movie about real estate salesmen,
>ironically.
>
>* Favors done for "sheep" in return for attendance. A
>dirty secret about the UBF numbers battle is that
>there was a lot of quid pro quo going on with sheep to
>drag them to meetings and conferences. My father would
>write doctor's notes so that his chronically alcoholic
>sheep wouldn't get fired from jobs; this was done in
>exchange for this sheep's agreement to come to the
>Chicago UBF Sunday meeting. The fact is that all these
>nice and "sacrificial" things that UBF shepherds seem
>to do for sheep have an alterior motive behind them;
>that motive is to win (or more accurately, not lose)
>the numbers battle for one more week.
>
>* UBF is rel=nofollow target=_blank >href=http://ubf-info.de/cts/icc/kriete2003.en.htm#14>no
>t alone in its numbers madness.
>
>* The numbers obsession encourages dishonesty and
>exaggeration. I have some memories of that rel=nofollow target=_blank >href=http://drchungj.blogspot.com/2004/07/more-bad-memo
>ries-of-ubf-international.html>here. Any veteran
>of Chicago UBF know about "kamikaze" 1:1s: reading a
>verse to a student in the course of trying to "fish"
>him/her is counted as a 1:1, calling a sheep up and
>talking to him is considered a 1:1.
>
>* The numbers obsession is essentially self-defeating
>and the source of much unspoken long-term
>discouragement for UBF members. That's the other dirty
>secret about the UBF numbers obsession: Everybody
>hates it. But nobody has the guts to stop it.

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Replies:

Re: The ministry of numbers -- Joe, 09:27:28 11/10/04 Wed