Re: questions -- RSQUBF discussion forum

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Date Posted: 20:12:22 02/14/05 Mon
Author: ubf member
Subject: Re: questions
In reply to: Bruce 's message, "Re: questions" on 19:22:27 02/14/05 Mon

I know that anything I say will be somehow refuted by examples of "unchange" in other chapters in ubf. So, this is what I know of and have seen, I do not want to argue or quarrel. I will simply give my examples and step back.

- There is no single authoritarian figure that has the influence or initiative to command what many have in the past claimed to be questionable. I personally believe Missionary Sarah Barry and Pastor Ron (I'm sorry if you do not agree with me using these titles) have taken a more passive role than did Dr. Samuel Lee.

- Marriage is more prayerful (of course this is what I have seen, Im sure you have many counter arguments). I apologize if these examples are segmented and chaotic, im not a very good writer.

Examples: 1) one Abraham of faith type shepherd in one chicago campus marries a woman of his choice, who is outside of ubf. The fellowship leader officiates the wedding and blesses them. No intervention by elders or ubf figureheads. 2) Two committed ubf members decide to marry each other. No intervention by elders and figure heads. Fellowship leader blesses and officiates. 3) My brother a "ubf shepherd" asks about another shepherdess. His shepherd prays with him and tries to arrange something. No intervention or excommunication. 4) known happenings of "courting" relationships (one of which includes my best friend) occur. Individuals are prayed for and not coaxed or reprimanded. 5) my shepherd (a very famous ubf figurehead) teaches me in Bible study that he believes in Christian dating with the intent of marriage 6) young american shepherd that is also a fellowship leader asks to extend his engagement with his fiance (whom he chose) for a longer period of time because he would like to "get to know her", resembling a Christian dating type relationship.

- More involvement in charities and POSSIBLE changes in use of ubf funds

examples 1) North Korea donation 2) Afghanistan donation 3) Southeast Asia Tsunami victims donation 4) call for auditing (I dont know the right word?) to check and keep track of ubf accounts (im not sure when this will take place)

- UBF traditions removed, changed or altered

examples 1) no more cheesey Christmas dramas with same plot every year 2) bi annual baptisms 3) hbf group participates in humanitarian aide effort in quito, Ecuador (not related to ubf) 3) college ministries utilize more modern praise and outreach forms 4) no punishments for low numbers 5) no more skokie training or other types of questionable training (in Chicago) 6) de-emphasis on "making the marks" and focus on helping others accept Christ 7) no more mass weddings, with the exception of a wedding with two couples on one night.

- 2nd annual ubf young disciples conference for young college students and second gens marks possible evolution in ubf ministry. I would like to note that major ubf figure heads were present at this conference and did not attempt to force a ubf style of worship or structure of meetings. One majore figurehead announces that "the ministry will go to the next generation of shepherds". I think this is key for the future of ubf ministry because the younger generations are probably sensitive to past ubf happenings.

I do not know how the leaders plan to apologize for abuses or if they even will. However, I promise you there is some bit of change going on. Also, these are what I have seen and witnessed.

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Replies:

Re: questions -- Nonny Moose, 20:52:13 02/14/05 Mon
- Re: questions -- ubf member, 21:00:50 02/14/05 Mon
  - Re: questions -- Nonny Moose, 21:18:48 02/14/05 Mon
    - Re: questions -- ubf member, 21:23:44 02/14/05 Mon
      - The More Things Change... -- Bruce, 07:19:47 02/15/05 Tue
    - Re: questions -- Chris, 03:26:05 02/15/05 Tue
Re: "figureheads" -- Nonny Moose, 21:44:29 02/14/05 Mon
Re: questions -- Chris, 03:52:48 02/15/05 Tue
Response to your examples -- PECAS, 18:26:25 02/15/05 Tue
Re: examples already addressed -- ChicagoXile, 22:43:42 02/15/05 Tue