Unfortunately I do disagree with you about Spike, Dochawk! -- Buffy Trollop Central

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Date Posted: 16:44:46 05/06/02 Mon
Author: Dyna
Subject: Unfortunately I do disagree with you about Spike, Dochawk!
In reply to: Dochawk 's message, "Major Spoilers in thread, Re:Sad as it is, I'm glad I'm not the only one disappointed and confused" on 15:43:15 05/06/02 Mon

"He never could take no for an answer, and he was always following Buffy around and pushing himself on her."

I'm sure you're not surprised that I disagree, since you probably encounter disagreement on this point a lot! ;)
I think the writers went out of their way to make clear that it wasn't Spike who initiated the relationship or pursued Buffy, but that it was in fact the other way around: He leaves her house immediately on the Scoobies' arrival and she later goes to him in AL, she's shown repeatedly seeking him out (and not the other way around) from AL through OMWF; in OMWF he tells her very clearly that her constant haunting of his crypt has to stop, that she has to leave him alone; she follows him out of the Bronze at the end of OMWF, while he tells her "you don't have to say anything," and to go back inside, which she refuses to do; she initiates the kiss in OMWF; when she turns away from him at the end of TR he leaves, and is [presumably] pursued by her; she initiates the kissing and the sex in "Smashed." In "Gone," finding herself freed from the constraint of observation, she makes a beeline for Spike and the "fun" she wants to have with him. Ultimately, he sends her away, something that offends her deeply. The only scene that partially supports the argument that Spike "pushed" Buffy is the scene at the Bronze in DT, which is itself ambiguous--Buffy separates *herself* from her friends, and is found by Spike. As a proof of a rule that "Spike pushes himself on Buffy," it's relatively weak compared to all the instances in which we've seen Buffy pursue Spike.

In general I find I'm not very convinced by the arguments that vampires have been "defined from the beginning" a certain way. The best analogy I have for why these don't work for me is this: If "Buffy" was a book, we've "read" up to the equivalent of Chapter 118. The "definition" of what a vampire is that's most often cited was read from a book in Chapter 1 or 2. While the "X was said first" defense may work in some areas, in literature, it's not what's said first that matters, it's what unfolds as the story is elaborated and the intial definitions are troubled and questioned that really tells the story. This is profoundly so in the gothic genre (of which Buffy is a classic modern example) where definitions are inherently suspect, and the reader is always obliged to find the meaning between, under and around the words said.

But of course this isn't the topic of this thread, so I'll quit before I go off on a gothic tangent!

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Re: Unfortunately I do disagree with you about Spike, Dochawk! -- Dochawk, 18:12:34 05/06/02 Mon