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Date Posted: 16:48:53 01/09/02 Wed
Author: multiple
Subject: If Sam repents, that is good? But what about us?
In reply to: rsqarchive 's message, "January 2001" on 10:32:30 01/09/02 Wed


Author: Sinner
Subject: If Sam repents, that is good? But what about us?

Sam may or may not be guilty of the numerous allegations. He may one day repent if he is guilty? That is between him and God. He doesn't have to give it to us. And what about us? How many of us are guilty of sin today? How many of us have not repented the things which are keeping us from a perfect relationship with God? Did you look lustfully towards that specific man or woman and commit adultery in your heart? What are the personal secrets of your past? Will you diclose them? Will I disclose them? How would you feel if someone who knew them printed them out publicly for all to see. If Sam repents and discloses all, I expect to see all our testimonies with nothing held back out here too.

Author: Timothy
Subject: Re: If Sam repents, that is good? But what about us?

There is a Biblical basis for addressing sin and discipline within the church that applies even for leaders:
1 Timothy 5 says â~@~\Do not entertain an accusation against an elder unless it is brought by two or three witnesses. Those who sin are to be rebuked publicly, so that the others may take warning.â~@~]


Matthew 18 says "If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that `every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses. If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector.â~@~]

Samuel Lee has refused all other ways of addressing his misdeeds, so we are at the last stage, brining it before the Church which is all of UBF.

The point is not that he is worthy of "special" disgrace in revealing his
misdeeds. The point is that he like all of us must be accountable before God AND the church. This is Biblical. No one, absolutely no one is unaccountable before the Church. Or do you disagree with scripture? The point is that the same rules for addressing sin and misconduct should apply to all.

The same applies for us. If we do not repent and have sin that affects many people and refuse to repent in the presence of our brother or 2 or 3 witnesses, then by all means we should follow this procedure. If I ever become a leader and start pulling the things he pulls I hope somebody slaps me upside the head real quick!

If anything leaders are more accountable because Paul says they must be rebuked publically. It is all in the Bible what to do. We should just follow that. Don't you think this is clear?

Author: Anon
Subject: Re: If Sam repents, that is good? But what about us?

Samuel Lee is a leader. As such he is even more accountable for his sin before the body of Christ. He refuses either to confront his sin or step down. If we become leaders like that that hurt so many people and stubbornly refuse to step down or repent, then yes, it should all be made public.

Author: ChicagoX
Subject: If Sam repents?

I'm still waiting for him to acknowledge that the simple fact that he's a sinner. He only needs to say four simple words, "I am a sinner." But his sins, it seems, are another different level from ours. The only "sins" he admits to are "not working hard enough" or "not having enough vision or zeal." He doesn't even call them sins. He calls them limitations or shortcomings. He's got a psychological and spiritual block which blinds him to his obvious sins of abusing others and loving money. What we and God see as sins, he sees as NECESSARY, even necessary for the "work of God." His thinking is almost Nietschean in that he puts himself above the "common" standards of decency and good and evil. How will such a man repent? It will take a miracle for him to see his sins as just that, sins.

Author: real christmas messenger
Subject: Re: If Sam repents?

Please don't forget that Sam occassionally repented that no matter how hard he tried to resist, he drank his cup of morning coffe before he prayed.

He just never gets around to repenting anything that the bible and the Holy Spirit command him to repent! The Spirit speaks loud and clear, 'Repent or perish Chang-Woo Lee!'

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