Sinning against the family -- RSQUBF Discussion Boards 2001 highlights

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Date Posted: 16:17:35 01/09/02 Wed
Author: multiple
Subject: Sinning against the family
In reply to: rsqarchive 's message, "January 2001" on 10:32:30 01/09/02 Wed

Author: Tom Fosler
Subject: Sinning against the family

1 Timothy 5:3-8 "Give proper recognition to those widows who are really in need. But if a widow has children or grandchildren, these should learn first of all to put their religion into practice by caring for their own family and so repaying their parents and grandparents, for this is pleasing to God. The widow who is really in need and left all alone puts her hope in God and continues night and day to pray and to ask God for help. But the widow who lives for pleasure is dead even while she lives. Give the people thse instructions, too, so that no one may be open to blame. If anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for his immediate family, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever."

1 Timothy 3:4-5 "He must manage his own family well and see that his children obey him with proper respect. (If anyone does not know how to manage his own family, how can he take care of God's church?)

Ephesians 6:1-4 "Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right.
"Honor your father and mother"--which is the first commandment with a promise--"that it may go well with you and that you may enjoy long life on the earth." Fathers, do not exasperate your children; instead, bring them up in the training and instruction of the Lord."

Really, these scriptures speak for themselves. But the point I am trying to make here is that UBF neglects the function and the mission of the family. How can people say that they are fulfilling God's mission if they are turning their backs on their mothers and fathers, the very people who gave them life? Or how can they say that they are fulfilling God's mission when they are raising their children with a dysfunctional value system which believes that church and church meetings are more important than the spiritual, emotional, mental and physical health of their children? I have seen and heard too many parents in UBF leave their kids by the wayside so they can attend the Sunday worship service, the fellowship meeting, the leaders
meeting, the directors meeting, et cetera. And what does that show the child? That they are not as important as your ability to look good and maintain a high profile? What standard of values is that based on? What about God's plan for your family? People, (and I am speaking to the members of UBF now) God has called you first to minister to your family and next to the people around you. Going out into the world and making disicples of men doesn't mean forsaking your own family, whether it is your family of origin or your family of procreation. It means impacting the people that you love the most with the gospel of Jesus Christ, not trying to pick up a complete stranger, hoping they would study the Bible with you and eventually fall in line to the lifestyle that UBF demands.

It is a matter of hermeneutics; of misinterpreting the Bible as well as the nature and theology of God. As you can see, the Bible itself clearly says that if you do not take care of your immediate family, which consists of your
children, your parents and your siblings, then you are denying the faith (that is, your are denying the essence and nature of Christ and his desire for your life purpose) and are worse than an unbeliever. Did you catch that? WORSE. I don't mean to be negative, but this is a serious offense to God. There are those of you in UBF who are turning your backs against the ones that love you the most, more than any person could ever love you in any church. Why are you doing this? Is it because you want to maintain the status quo? It hurts the parents and the loved ones, more than you may realize. I have received emails from parents and friends of UBF members who plead with me to help them deal with the family they love. It hurts me, personally, because I have family in UBF and because I love them very much. It hurts my wife, her mom, and her dad, because they want to express their love to them without watching them turn their backs even more to us. Therefore, I urge and admonish you, in the Spirit of God and as a
Christ-follower, to make peace with your families, to listen to what they have to say with an open mind, and to see the hurt and the love that they simultaneously express for you. If you continue to exist in UBF while denying your family and continuing to sin against your family, you will heap upon yourself destruction. Honor your father and mother. Do not embitter your children. Listen to your parents. Most of all, listen to the Spirit of God and find what he has to say. Listen to Him and He will be quick to tell you that it is right and pleasing to him to go and make peace with your family, the ones who brought you life and who continue to give you life. Has your family stopped loving you? Impossible! Will you be loved as much by those in UBF? Never! No church can make that boast. But it is your responsibility as one who calls yourself a Christian to not overlook this scripture, as you would be overlooking the heart of God himself, especially if your family is a family of born-again Christians. Then you
have no excuse, for you know that they have the Spirit of Christ in them as well.

Please give these words careful thought and speak to the Lord about his opinion and his direction for you in this matter. May the Spirit of God rest upon you and speak to you the truth.

Author: Sarah Rhee
Subject: Re: Sinning against the family

Tom, I can't agree more. Ministering to your immediate family is a God-given mission to us all. No one is exempt. Even Jesus made sure his mother was looked after while hanging on the cross. Are you going to say Jesus was weakened by human love because he cared what would happen to his mother after he was gone? Did Jesus say to his mother, "I can't care for you right now because I'm busy dying on the cross, and anyways, loving you as my mother is only human love and not a spiritual act."? I don't think so. God is pro-family. God is a Father. He understands the anguish of parents who lose their children to organizations that claim to be doing God's work. I believe that God has compassion for these parents and family members, and that his anger burns against those who attempt to break up families that he has sovereignly established.

Author: Family Man
Subject: Re: Sinning against the family

Sounds noble. Considering it is coming from a man who can't support his own family and has to rely on his inlaws.

Author: Anon
Subject: Re: Sinning against the family

So, what's wrong with relying on in-laws? That is perfectly Biblical and even OK in UBF. Did he desert his family? Are they without food, clothing, shelter? Are you that familiar with his situation, and have you ever been helped by in-laws or somebody? I think most of us have.

Gee, you are really scraping the bottom of the barrel to discredit people, aren't you?

Author: Anon
Subject: Re: Sinning against the family

Family man, tells us what you do. Do you spend quality time with your family? Are you there for them? Or do you pawn them off on one baby sitter after another, leave them home alone, or put them in UBF quasi day care facilities?

And also, how about you? Are you on the UBF dole in anyway? Do you get the free housing? If you do, you should get a nail-puller for when your house gets boarded up.

Author: Sarah Rhee
Subject: Family Man, your post reveals more about you than Tom

Dear Family Man,

Your reply to Tom's very biblical post has done more damage to your credibility than to Tom's.

I don't know you, and I don't know Tom, but what I do know from the posts reveals that Tom has thought deeply about issues that are pertinent to people who are in or are recovering from being in UBF, whereas your statement reveals your motive to spread gossip.

Even if your statement is true, it has no bearing on whether Tom is or is not of noble character.

I recognize your freedom to say what you will, however, and I exercise my own freedom to counter your statement. Everything is permissible, but not everything is beneficial.

Author: Anon
Subject: Re: Sinning against the family

Yes I too agree that we Must love our family, where would we be without them? But should we only obey the verses of the Bible we want to? Or just the ones we like? What about 2 Thes 3:10 which says, "For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule:'If a man will not work, he shall not eat.'"

Author: hardworking woman
Subject: Re: Sinning against the family

I am a single mother with 3 children and I have to work alot to support my family. Because of this am I a bad parent because I have to send my children to the baby sitter? Am I pawning my children off on someone? After all who is going to feed them? You anonymous. It is just the place I am in my life right now. But I am happy my children are not cold and hungry.

Author: Tom Fosler
Subject: Re: Sinning against the family

My post was not addressed to people in your situation. Rather it was for those in UBF who try to literally and figuratively "hate" their family just so they can participate in an incredible number of ministry functions. I was not talking about single, working mothers or other people in similar situations. Rather I was challenging the Family Man to really think about how he treats his family. No provocation to judgment, but rather to thought about the matter. May God bless you and send godly people to help you with your family. :)

Author: Cathie Fosler
Subject: Re: Sinning against the family

Dear Family Man, if that is your real name. I am the wife of one Tom Fosler and I am here to set the record straight. We, my husband,son and I do not rely on my parents. We pay our bills as well as rent every month just like everyone else. My husband works two jobs so that I can stay at home and care for our beautiful son. Futhermore we are involved with our church doing such things as singing every Sunday in the vocal team and leading a small group every other Wednesday. We also run this website, making sure that it is updated and responding to e-mails sent to us. If that is relying on my parents than I would hate to see us desperate and really in need. I really don't like when false rumors are spread about my family but I guess that is the way of UBF. Family man I have some questions for you. If your child woke up on a Sunday morning very ill would you stay home to care for that child or would you take them to some babysitter? If your child had a very important function at school, something
they worked really hard on, and that event was on a Friday night would you go to see your child or would you go to the leaders meeting? How about your mother, what if she suddenly fell ill and went to the hospital on a Sunday morning or even a Friday night would you rush to her side or would you abandon her for UBF? Think about what Jesus would do, then answer my questions.

Author: watcher
Subject: Re: Sinning against the family

Some concrete examples of sinning against one's family or against a family:
We already know about Jackie Lee being cut off from most of her family. There's also the example of a husband or wife threatening to divorce their spouse if they leave UBF, and such people are praised for their loyalty to UBF. An orchestra member was afraid that her toddler had eaten mouse poison. She came to orchestra practice anyway but could not concentrate and was about to go home to tend to her toddler. But Samuel Lee made her stay even after he was told about the situation.

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What kind of post-Reform UBF should there be? -- multiple, 16:21:31 01/09/02 Wed