RSQUBF make Daniel Hong famous -- RSQUBF Discussion Boards 2001 highlights

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Date Posted: 16:33:40 01/09/02 Wed
Author: multiple
Subject: RSQUBF make Daniel Hong famous
In reply to: rsqarchive 's message, "January 2001" on 10:32:30 01/09/02 Wed

Author: socrates
Subject: Dr. Daniel Hong teaches us "ABC" of debate. (From answer.ubf..blah blah)

ABC of debate: Hear BOTH sides of the story. Are they willing to tell
the 'same story' under oath?

My 17 year old daughter(!) received an e-mail from the so called
Reform group(SCRG) yesterday, and I am compelled to write this story.
Please protect children. What are you(SCRG) doing?

[1] The mail carried only one sided story told by a two
step process, namely (i) a 'sad' story by a second generation.
I am grateful that he said he has forgiven those who he thought
have hurt him in the past. It is my sincere prayer that he may
grow to be a wonderful man of God.

Putting aside his emotions, I am disturbed by SCRG's exploting
Mr.Park's tragedy to their advantage. In particular, I have
a problem with their method: (i) it was [Mr. Joseph Park's
'description' of his mother's 'divorce' and(hence, two step process,
but his father's side of the story is missing, his accused,
Dr. Samuel Lee's (and those missionaries who adopted him) side
of
the story is missing, and witnesses'(both accused and accuser) story
are missing, too. I am aware of this divorce. The first husband
was Mr. Soon Kyu Park, my friend, and I have a distinctively different
memory,)] and (ii) the [story of what happened to him during his
FIRST 8 months from birth(!) (this must be again the two step
process: What does 8 month baby know, unless he heard from his
mother or someone else? What is missing here? Does he know what his
father did during this period? If so, why is he 'silent' about this,
and put all the burdens of his family problem on Dr. Samuel Lee?
Also, stories by those accused are missing, and the
witnesses'(both accused and accuser) stories are missing, too.)],
and (iii) [somebody else's one sided description(!) of
M. Jackie Lee's story (again two step process; what is a problem with
this story? This is a story based on rumor. Stories by her children
are missing. The story demonizes
the children. Does the writer know
how much the children love their mother?? It also makes a false
accusation against Dr. Samuel Lee without any shred of evidence.)].

Is this always the 'Mode of Operation' of the so called Reform group?
If so, this is very disturbing. Do you truly believe such one sided
stories?? Where is OBJECTIVITY? Are they willing to tell the
same story 'under oath'?

[2] In the court, there is so called, the 'cross examination,' an
engineering mechanism to determine the truth. In the US, even the
criminal receives the benefit of doubt. The rule in the court is:
Unless proven guilty, he is innocent!

[3] I plead to the people of the so called Reform group. When you
post a story, please make sure, (i) it is based on the first hand
knowledge (direct) and facts, and (ii) when making an accusation,
please make sure it is based on facts, and also carries the other
side of the story. Otherwise, it will have
no credibility whatsoever
to any intelligent person.... I am 'truly puzzled' how such one sided
stories should be given any credibility.......

This is the ABC of debate. Please remember it, especially when you
make a 'serious' allegation against someone...... Do not violate
the 9th commandment: You shall not give false testimony against
your neighbor Also, 'Do not spread false reports.(Ex 23:1)'

If you want to rebut, please reveal your identity. Otherwise, it
will have no credibility whatsoever. I will never respond to a story
written anonymously. Any decent reporters in the US will never ever
print such a one sided story in a newspaper.

Author: Socrates
Subject: Re: Dr. Daniel Hong teaches us

Hear "both sides of the story"? That is what reformers have wanted all along. It is the "other side" that refused to respond. Am I right? Why haven't the 15 questions posed by Reformers been answered? We are eager to hear the "other side" if only they would talk about it. I am sure the Reformers would love to talk about everything. Also, there are public boards for everyone to post to. Let's hear the accused's story.

Also, I think there are plenty of eyewitnesses who have testified to the corruption. How many do you need? What do you want? A video tape of Samuel Lee telling somebody to get an abortion? If somebody came up with that, you would say, "It is a Samuel Lee imposter."

Besides that how many eyewitnesses to corruption do you need? It seems that half of UBF has personally testified about it but you say it doesn't count.

Concerning Joseph Park, his mother approved his statement and she will probably make hers eventually. But if I were her, I would contact a good
trial lawyer first before saying anything.

Also, why do you compare this to a court room? Aren't we brothers and sisters of the same body? Shouldn't we be able to resolve these conflicts short of a courtroom? Nobody has put Samuel Lee or UBF on trial, but they have every right to ask questions about its integrity and get answers.

Thank you for your wonderfully pedantic instructions about debate, complete with item numbers. But tell Samuel Lee to give Reformers and even playing field and a place to debate from instead of shutting them out and cutting them off. Let's all get together and talk about these things shall we? That's all reformers wanted in the beginning.

Author: Plato
Subject: Re: Dr. Daniel Hong teaches us

If you don't want a debate to be one sided, then you shouldn't start complaining about how one side has made its arguments. What you should do is present arguments of your own. Let's see Samuel Lee's testimony that he never ordered any abortions. Let's see Jackie Lee's daughters testify that their spouses never cursed their mother in law.

That is how you win a debate, by countering other people's evidence and testimony by testimony and evidence of your own, not by shutting up your opponents.

Author: ChicagoX
Subject: "D" of Debate: The other side of the story has to be told to be heard

Does anyone have any idea how to post a response on http://answer.ubf.or.kr? I tried but had no luck. Anyway, here's what I sent to Dr. Hong directly. It's the same thing I posted earlier but revised and expanded:

"...a time to be silent and a time to speak..." - Ecclesiastes 3:7

"For whatever is hidden is meant to be disclosed, and whatever is concealed is meant to be brought out into the open." - Mark 4:22

"Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them." - Ephesians 5:11

Dear Dr. Hong,

I alone will take credit for emailing your 17 year old daughter and several other 2nd gens among others. I don't think the Reform Committees in Korea, in America or anywhere else even know who I am. You didn't say how your daughter reacted. Did she demand some answers from you? Did she ask for the other side of the story? Did you tell it to her? She is old enough to know the truth, Dr. Hong, or at least to look for it herself. After all, in just two
more years, she will be eligible for marriage in Chicago UBF. Perhaps she will be more resistant to that idea now. Do you think she is proud of your rushing to the defense of a known tyrant, even defending his mail-order Ph.D.? Stand up for the truth, man! Stand up for the oppressed. Defend the widows and the fatherless as God commands. Then she might be proud of you.

The email I sent was meant to notify people of the presence of the American RSQUBF (http://come.to/rsqubf) and REFORMUBF (http://www.reformubf.org) web sites as well as directions to get to the web sites. This was to counter Chicago UBF's and your own apparent control of the flow of information about UBF reform, you who would dare to lecture us about listening to both sides of the story. Yes, the excerpts I chose were among the most damning of Chicago UBF and Samuel Lee. If they contained nothing but praise, would I have bothered to send such an email and would people bother to check out the web sites? I could have included more
tabloid-like excerpts about an alleged adulterous affair, but I did not because I myself have reservations about such stories. The excerpts I chose to include tell of the real issues behind my support of Reform, that of lives and families being destroyed because of one man's abuse of his God-given authority.

I remain anonymous because I intend to stick around Chicago UBF to expose as much as I can. (And if I am found out and kicked out, then "Oh, sweet freedom!" for me and for my family.) But 16 year old Joseph Park, with his mother standing beside him as he typed his testimony, is not anonymous. Jimmy Rhee was not anonymous when he wrote of Samuel Lee's confession to him of ordering Mrs. Yoon's abortion. James J. Kim (director of Toledo prior to Paul Hong) was not anonymous when he wrote his 1989 letter, alleging more abortions prior to and including Rebekah Yoon's which had been ordered by Samuel Lee. Andrew Park is not anonymous. He is the one who recounted how Missionary Jackie Lee was treated
after speaking with Missionary Jackie. I'm sure they would repeat their testimony under oath. And when they have recovered sufficiently from their considerable emotional wounds, I'm sure Rebekah Yoon and Jackie Lee will testify to the truth personally, under oath if necessary. It seems that only those who have been kicked out of or have left Chicago UBF can use their real names to air the truth about Samuel Lee. Doesn't that tell you something about the state of open debate in UBF, Dr. Hong? So many have spoken of the abuses of the UBF Leader. One could call it almost a "cloud of witnesses." Either they are all lying and/or deluded, or it is about time for "intelligent people," whose consciences have not been completely seared, to start investigating the charges.

As for your friend of long ago--Mr. Park--the bruises on Rebekah Yoon and a public exhibition of his violent temper which I witnessed was enough to tell me the whole story about him. As his son wrote, Samuel Lee and others forced him to
divorce his wife and leave UBF because of his conduct.

As for Missionary Jackie Lee's daughters, I know them all, and I love them all like my own daughters, and I loved their parents. I know they love their mother. But they are not allowed to show it! Instead, they were made to express hatred toward their own mother by Samuel Lee. It's "the law of corban" at its worst. What could the other side of the story be here? That they called their beloved mother on their own initiative and told her, one by one, not to call them or visit them anymore? I have made Esther, Sarah, Grace and Maria all aware of what is said on the web sites. Yet they remain silent. Why wouldn't they remain silent? There is no other side of the story. (See the addendum to this message from RSQUBF in which someone recounts a conversation he had with one of the members of the Chicago Board of Trustees about Missionary Jackie's expulsion.)

As I said, my email was meant to notify people of the presence of the American web sites,
web sites which have been around a long time, waiting for the other side of the story to be told. We are still waiting to hear the other side of the story. Chicago UBF-issued rumors such as "Jackie Lee became a crazy Moonie and condoned her youngest daughter's adulterous affair with a Jehovah's Witness" do not qualify as the other side of the story. If you are actually interested in hearing the other side of the story, why do you post exclusively on the official Korean anti-Reform web site in English of all languages? Are you afraid we'll soil your ears with our side of the story?

* * * * *
Addendum
* * * * *

Dear friends,

UBF is a sick chicken. Recently I spoke at length with a member of the Board of Directors in Chicago UBF. I read to him about the "Destruction of Jackie Lee's Family" from the reformubf.org web site. The BOD member said he had not heard any of those events in that manner. In other words, he had not heard even one true statement about Jackie leaving or her family
being destroyed so viciously.

Even more shocking, he turned the conversation around by emphasizing that Jackie left of her own volition, that she was not kicked out! I said the point was not why she left, but that she has been so savagely attacked! He repeated several times that she left by herself. Finally, I asked, "Does that mean it's OK to slander and violate her family?" Like a robot, he just repeated that she left of her own volition.

The point was made very clearly. At the top of this UBF, the belief is anyone who leaves for any reason is an infidel. Anyone who leaves must be attacked mercilessly. The rumors are merely a veneer to cover the gigantic sins and problems of UBF. God has no place in most of the UBF. Man reigns supreme in the form of Bogus Dr. Sam.

P.S. At least one of Jackie's sons-in-law lived under her roof for an extensive period of time. And he returned her love and kindness by calling her Satan.

Author: ChicagoX
Subject: "C" of debate: Censorship

My reply and two other English replies to Dr. Daniel Hong's message on http://answer.ubf.or.kr were deleted. Not surprisingly, all the deleted messages disagreed with Dr. Hong. He must have raised a stink with the web master to have them erased. This is his idea of a debate? Oh, well.

Author: Curious
Subject: Re: Dr. Daniel Hong would lecture us

Well said, ChicagoX. It's too bad Dr. Hong probably won't read your response, or at least respond to it, since UBF damage control seems to be directed at the Korean front... notice how the "answers" have been posted at a Korean site, and none of the English ones. But considering how Samuel Lee has recently said that only American missionaries are "real" missionaries, I can't help feeling that even Koreans loyal to him will feel insulted. So why is the focus on defending Lee in Korea then? Strange tactics, or is it just the right hand not knowing what the left hand is doing.

Author: Spirit of '76
Subject: "The other side."

Wow! Dr. Daniel Hong is right! Knowing the "other side" makes all the difference in the world! For years I only heard how terrible those "rebels" were. Now I know the "other side." So, I am very thankful.

Tell me, is that why Samuel Lee left Korea? Was he afraid of criminal prosecution? Is that why he came to America?

Author: jd@mail.com (Actually, Daniel Hong, as he later admitted)
Subject: He has committed a crime against children.

jd@mail.com is currently committing a crime against children. This will have serious consequences.

Author: Anon
Subject: Yes, he has committed crimes against children.

He's assaulted and hit them in and out of the presence of their parents. He's ripped them out of the care of their parents. He's ordered their termination before birth. You know who I'm talking about, Daniel Hong.

Author: ChicagoX
Subject: Dr. Hong, calm down.

You stated that you were going to post only one message and then you go and post two semi-anonymous messages, one containing personal attacks and one nearly incoherent. You are the one urging calm, reflective and prayerful dialogue among people who look up at God. Yet your on-line behavior betrays you. Plus, I think you're being overprotective of your daughter, which is natural. She's 17 years old, as you wrote; hardly a child. All I sent was an email listing the URL's of Reform-oriented web sites with some excerpts from the message board. I guess that's a crime in your book.

Author: Anon
Subject: Re: Dr. Hong, calm down.

How did this fellow get a Ph.D? Does Bethany have a program in Physics? Or perhaps they just white out the title and write it in. This is incredible, but typical of the childishness of UBF leaders.

Author: Honest (Actually, Daniel Hong, as he later admitted)
Subject: Rebekah Yoon and Jackie Lee (Daniel Hong tells us "the other side of the story")

Jimmy Rhee: You should know better. Let us really be honest. Isn't it true that Rebekah Yoon was spiritually too immature at the time of marriage? She studied the Bible only less than a year before marriage, but her first husband was a long time UBF member. Also, didn't Rebekah Yoon refuse to make a coffee when asked by her husband? Wasn't it why this Korean man was so upset? Did she really show respect to her first husband? I heard that she really despised him.

How long Jackie going to live as a widow? Doens't she say that she wanted to marry again? Wasn't it the real reason why she left UBF? Stop talking about this nonsense, blaming UBF, and let us be honest.

Author: Stupid American
Subject: UBF, Ph.D. Logic.

If woman does not make coffee for husband, then she is worthy of being beat, abandoned, striped of her children, and forced to have an abortion.

Very good from a physicist. Just think, he probably makes nuclear weapons for our country!

Author: Jimmy Rhee
Subject: Re: Rebekah Yoon and Jackie (Reply to "Honest")

I am afraid that your name doesn't sound like who you are!

I just pray for your soul to be honest to your own conscience.

Does your conscience say it's OK for any church of God to forcefully separate a young couple so as for them to be parted, just because they have some problems? We all have problems in our marrage, don't we? What if someone forcefully interfere with your marriage and forcefully separate you just because you have some problem? Even the heathens don't do that. Shouldn't the church help them to overcome their problems, with much prayer and love, and wise counseling?

Be honest, Mr. Honest, to tell the truth. When I asked about Mr. Park's whereabout, I was warned not to try, for it was S.L.'s instruction. I feel like it's you, Mr. Honest, that warned me, though I don't write your name. If you're not, forgive me. Your anonymity also should be blamed for my wrong quess.

About Jackie, your distorted view shows me the disgusting way UBF people see people. In your
subconcience, I tell you that UBF is Freudian in a sense. You treat people as hungry just for marriage or sex. If your eyes are dark, what you see is all dark(Luke 11:33).

Once S.L. told a wife missionary to have 100 day separation training-If my memory is correct, Dr. Toh received the same training, saying that her husband became so skinny because they had too much sex. The woman got mad, and her husband just laughed, because it was just nonesense. He had to work more than 80 hours a week, for work, B.S., fishing, meetings and visiting, from the early morning prayer till midnight. How could they have their own private life? Such imagination is possible only for those who don't understand the real hard works, tears, sweat and sacrifice the missionaries had to bear and just enjoy the ministry built on such sacrifice. I don't regret for myself though, except for my children. But my point is how they see other people. May I continue my story about this kind of twisted sex-oriented view of
UBF?

UBF uses John 4 as a tool to label women as so-called Samaritan woman. So the point of the chapter is shifted from Jesus to Samaritan woman. I remember how Terese Bird was publicly called Samaritan woman. She was almost crushed in her spirit. By God's grace, I could study Romans with her. Terese, you are the witness, I didn't use UBF copy materials. Every time we met, the Lord gave us freedom. How often we wept together, because of all the wounds you got from the mean spirit of UBF. How I wish John and Terese may read this and remember those days!

Author: ChicagoX
Subject: Such hypocrisy, Dr. Hong (Honest, jd@mail.com)

You wrote in the one message in which you identified yourself, "We can discuss things to reform in an honest manner, but we should
not make false accusations against someone with the sole aim to
destroy his/her reputation."
Well then, what have you done here? I realize more and more that a Ph.D. does not a honorable man make.

Author: Daniel Hong
Subject: My daughter and message to Shep. Nick Timlin

This will be my first and the only time to visit RSUBF, and leave a message. (Not true. See above posts.)

[1] I spoke with my daughter, who received three e-mails in two days from xx@ and xx@. At first, I worried, so, I spoke with her just now, and asked her about the mail, and what she thought about them. My daughter said that she could sense the hatred in the mail, and so she said that she just scanned the first paragraph, and buried them. I repented that I underestmated her strength.

[2] No matter how good your intention is, if you are filled with hatred and bitterness, people can see it through.

[3] Finally, I read the parting thoughts of a second Gen. She said that RSUBF has started with a good intention, but has now become a tabloid web site. I am really proud, as a father, that teeagers have a better sense of justice than RSUBF people.

[4] Tonight, I receive a phone call from Shep. Nick Timlin. He said he joined the Reform UBF. I used to think that he is really a
good husband, who allowed Shep. Yuvonne to do God's work. But today, I found out his mindset: He considers himself being abused by UBF. So, here is my suggestion: Nick, if that's what you think is happening to your family, then you should talk to Dr. Samuel Lee, or M. Sarah Barry, or anyone else in UBF, and express your thoughts. Who is forbidding you to do that? What are you afraid of? UBF people are reasonable people. Why can't you take charge of your own life? Please do not blame UBF for your own failure of taking charge of your own family. It is your own spiritual problem, no one else's problem. Also, I make my sincere apology to him for hanging up my phone tonight.

[5] We can discuss things to reform in an honest manner, but we should not make false accusations against someone with the sole aim to destroy his/her reputation.

[6] Last X-mas, one of my sheep cried out in the X-drama that he hated his father, but later I found out that he was talking about me. I was so puzzled by
this statement that I was thinking and thinking what I did wrong. Then, I found that I had too high expectation of him, and he resented it. I am aware that I sometimes have a bad temper, but at the same time it is not entirely inaccurate to say that I perhaps have the image of Our Lord Jesus. If you only talk about my bad temper, you can certainly demonize me. In student evaluation of a professor, about 5-10 % always say that he is a terrible instructor, no matter what you do do. Isn't RSUBF the voice of that 5-10% of people? That's my honest assessment, and because of that, I believe that this movement will soon die out, and disappear without trace. No one can stay in the mode of hatred for an extended period. People will soon leave one by one. Therefore, focus on Jesus, not the sins of people. That's the only way to sustain the health of our spiritual life.

Author: Nick Timlin,ex-shepherd
Subject: Re: My daughter and message to Shep. Nick Timlin.

Yesterday I was told by my bible teacher, Peter Chung, that he has been receiving abusive phone calls from various people. He was not upset. I was. So I called Dr. Hong to inquire why he is calling my Bible Teacher.

He has his reasons for doing what he is doing. I have my reasons for doing what I am doing. Of course, I think my reasons are much more valid than his. He will not persuade me, and I will not be able to persuade him.

To me, the central dividing point is how much abuse is too much to endure? I have been abused. My family has been abused. Even my wife has been abused. If I have to, I will divulge those ugly secrets but I wll ask her first. If it is not abuse, then there should be no problem with her agreeing to allow me to post the ugly stories.

I think there are two camps clearly froming. There are those who want to make UBF very different than it is presently. This is predicated on the belief that there is sin and unbiblical teaching and behavior running
out of control. Then there is another camp who will defend the status quo no matter what.

I do not own the UBF. However, I considered myself a very loyal member through innumerable cases of abuse. I was even promoted to the point where I could be used to abuse others. At the time, I would never have called this abuse. I would have God it training, or spiritual love. It was neither. It was spiritual abuse, and even physical abuse. I did not receive these directions from God but from Sam Lee.

Dr. Hong cares tremendously for his family. He protects his family like a mother grizzly bear. God bless him! However, he does not protect his neighbor. He does not defend the widow. He does not defend abused orphans. I did not do so either. I saw Damon misbehaving from my front window. I woke up in the middle of the night to him screaming and kicking down his front door. I saw his wife in her pajamas crying on the street. I wished they would shut up so I could get some sleep, and I
went back to bed.

I came home after worship service to see four Chicago police squad cars blocking the street as if there was murder scene. I went over there and was told that Damon punched Elena Lomahan in the stomach and ran out the door. I was there when drama coaches hit CBF children with a wooden pole untill the grammar school girls cried. I was there when UBF drama members beat each other with a 2x4 at Mark VC's overseeing. The stupid drama practices hadn't even started yet!

These are the kinds of abuse that I can mention without getting someone's permission because I was there. Why was I in the UBF? My bible teacher helped me to come to Jesus and repent my life of sin. He encouraged me to become a fulltime shepherd, and I offered my pitiful self for campus mission. As soon as I did, I was removed from my Bible teacher and fellowship members who loved me in Jesus. I was handed over to Sarah Barry and became a guinea pig for Sam Lee.

Why did I stay in the UBF? I gave
the leaders the benefit of the doubt that my bad experiences were merely God's way to train and purify me to receive God's blessing. It was a stretch, but I accepted this becasue there was no voice of reason to tell me the real truth. I made a commitment to UBF, but UBF was not commited to me. And they used my commitment however they felt. Sometines I was abused just to entertain the leaders. Sometimes to tighten their grip on me and my family. In reality they cannot, but Chicago UBF is not based on reality or the real spiritual world. It is an artificial spiritual world that is peppered with Bile verses and Bible meetings. Still, it is not based on God but on man. Sam is the first and only voice on every issue. Please read the numerous posts from very respectable people and decide for yourself. Don't fall for the false Mysticism/paradoxes tht UBF is truly built on.

I could write a book on the UBF, but nobody would buy it. So I will just encourage people to be like Dr. Hong or like me.
If you want to stay in UBF, protect yourself and your family like a mother bear. Live outside of Chicago. Never come to visit. Don't send your children to Chicago because you know who is here. He is not reasonable. Every time I went to talk to him, I was not allowed to say anything. I was simply told what to do, sometimes in a civil tongue, some times like I was Joe and Kathy Calabrese. Ditto for other leaders.

James Joung is a gentle man, so he never raised his voice to me or others. Still, he cannot protect me or anyone. He cannot allow me to see things as they really are, because I would most likely leave. I respect most missionaries and shepherds and wish them the best. However, the future does not look bright for many of them.

I never had to walk 20 miles in the middle of the night. To survive in UBF, it is better to be like Dr. Hong.

Or you can be like me: Start to listen to your conscience only. If someone you respect has left, find out why they did. It will
never come close to the official stories that are manufactured after people leave. If you don't trust people give their stories, trust what your eyes have seen. The abuse is usually hidden, but there is so much public abuse. I remember when one American Bible student committed suicide, and during the Sunday message his story was put into the light of a cartoon character. Ron Ward made a mini-drama of somebody jumping off a building yelling a kamikazee-banzai charge type of slogan. And he was never spoken of again.

I am in no way a model christian, but I know right from wrong better than ever. My parents and brothers and siter and I have been restored, something that the UBF is against. I have five wonderful sons. I wouldn't trade them for all the money in the world. My wife teaches them to pray, recite the 10 commandments, Lord's prayer. However, I feel our marriage is divided like North and South korea. I feel i am like South Korea.

When did the light go on in my heart? Not
sure, but I had been deeply ingrained with the idea of an infallible Sam. One missionary actually approached me a few years ago to convince me that Sam has changed. That would hint that he was not perfect. Not all have bad experiences, but I have. Many others have had had much worse. when I read the 1976 declaration, I could see Sam is a sadist. To put pepper in man's eyes and order him to beat his head against the wall! Sam should lead by example and beat his own head against the wall. I will not be a part of such godless activities. You shouldn't either. But you have to choose. Dr. Hong or lowly Nick Timlin.

Dr. Hong is a very respectable, tough man and father. But he couldn't care less about abuse because he is 1,000 miles out of harms way. Not all people in UBF are abused. Some are groundlessly proud and praised without rhyme or reason. Many who are sincere are criticized and abused without rhyme or reason. Chicago UBF is Sam's business. You have to reckon with him, and it is
always on his terms.

Nick Timlin is a poor, self-employed accountant. He is 25 lbs. overweight. His Bible teacher was nothing but a poor man's son from Korea. this poor man's son left his own child in Korea for seven years in order to offer himself fully to UBF. During this time he was pushed to persecute his wife to become an RN, though she is weak and easily tired. She probably should get the RN to earn and offer more money. After raising several shepherds, Peter Chung was pushed to move to five different Chicago chapters in 3 years. Finally, he was cast out to Pittsburgh for reasons I do not know. In the meantime, Diilgence Chung was publicly humiliated. She was called an adulteress by Lee without any evidence. She was shunted by almost all other missionaries as if she had leprosy. Then people spoke as if she were out of her mind. This is the treatment that may come upon you, as I said, wthout rhyme or reason. Nobody defended her, but many implicitly or explicitly particpated in this
evil persecution of a sacrificial missionary family because of the uncontrolled evil impulses in Sam's heart.

If you want to leave UBF, just stop showing up. If you want to stay, I think you will become very thirsty and dried up. One person that compared to other churches, UBF life is like taking a cross country train trip in a hot boxcar, surviving on crackers and water. No view, no comfort, no meaning, questionable result. The life that God has in store for us is like a king or queen (like princess Yvonne) living a life of joy, beauty, and life to the fullest. Don't give me the life of ease and comfort! I said joy, beauty, and life to the fullest.

Please respect Dr. Hong. He deserves it. Please respect yourself and your family and your neighbor. You deserve it also.

Author: Stupid American
Subject: Re: My daughter and message to Shep. Nick Timlin.

Give the guy some credit. It is not easy being a man who can slam widows and the fatherless while defending tyrants. It requires a certain discipline and strength. With friends like him, think about how Dr. Lee feels....perhaps it is a comfort knowing people like him are at the helm taking up the shield.

Author: Anon
Subject: Re: My daughter and message to Shep. Nick Timlin.

UBF members love to talk about how they're being persecuted when it's their leaders who are ganging up on others, calling them and heaping abuse on them.

Author: ChicagoX
Subject: How do you "sense hatred" without first reading something?

Dr. Hong, I believe you've probably misrepresented your daughter here. Was the email glowing an evil red even before she read it? Is that how she would have "sensed the hatred" without even reading the message? Here's the first paragraph (excerpt) she would have read in that email:
"My name is Joseph Park. I am 16 years old and live with my mother. I
am a 2nd generation UBFer who left along with my mother Rebekah Yoon,
Pastor Jimmy Rhee, Dr. Daniel Shin, and many others with their
respective families in 1989. I have long since forgiven Dr. Samuel Lee
for what he has done to me, my mother, my unborn little sibling and my
friends...."
I'm sorry. I fail to see the hatred there.

Author: ChicagoX
Subject: Try to understand where Daniel Hong is coming from.

Here's something from his "parting" message on http://answer.ubf.or.kr:
"...truth will ultimately
prevail. Hundred years from now, Dr. Samuel Lee will shine like a
star in the sky, and the people filled with hatred will disappear
without trace."
Also, Nick Timlin, hang in there. You are a good father and husband. I know how hard you have to work to support your many sons. After the way Peter and Dili Chung were treated, I don't blame you one bit.

Author: Daniel Hong
Subject: Re: Here we go again...

(Archiver's note: This is one of the most despicable messages left on the RSQUBF message boards because it was written in a conciliatory tone yet still managed to viciously twist the knife in the backs of the wounded.)

Folks: I make a sincere apology to all of you. Mr. Chicagox's e-mail contained the address of this web site, and I left three messages: one in my name(Daniel Hong), and the other two in the name of 'honest' and 'ohio' and 'jd@mail.com.' All of them are from me. To tell you the truth, after the posting, I quickly sent the webmaster an e-mail to remove my posting in the name of 'honest' and 'ohio'. You may check with the webmaster. Thus, I apology to all of you.

Now, my soul is clean and I will never ever visit you again. This is my parting thoughts:

[1] Dr. Abraham Lee of medical college of ohio, please stop your destructive underground operation. You may have crossed the line to crime against children. This is also the warning to Mr. Chicagox.

[2] Those who are exploting Mrs. Yoon's divorce: The time will come when Mr. Soon Kyu Park opens his mouth. At that time, Mr. Joseph Park will truly hear his father's side of the story, and will realize that he was lied all
along.

[3] M. Jackie Lee: I still have the Bible you gave me at Chicago. I am sorry that I made a factual statement that you left UBF because you wanted to marry. May God grant you a wonderful godly husband.

[4] Anyone who does chores for Dr. Abraham Lee, M. Mark Hong, and M. Peter Chung, or any other big shots in the reform movement in Korea. Have you noticed that no one leaves any trace? This is the US, and please be aware that you may have crossed the line and left lots of materials which can be used against you, because a huge legal fight may be forthcoming.

[5] M. Jimmy Rhee: I still remember your wonderful song, "The Lord's prayer." I pray that God may bless your ministry.

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Re: RSQUBF make Daniel Hong famous (continued) -- multiple, 16:35:32 01/09/02 Wed