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Date Posted: 02:11:38 07/02/06 Sun
Author: chris t
Subject: A doping analogy

Ill post this again for the newcomers, read it and make your own decisions.... I am thinking about stopping my research and posting on the subject of doping, because, well... becuase it is starting to break my heart. When non riders used to ask me what I thought about it, I used to tell them everything I knew, but to be honest, I would rather say "I don't know anything about that, but what a great sport!"

I would rather bring people into the fold, than turn their opinions against it. But I may jump in from time to time when people start posting bogus info etc...

Originally Posted by a Forum Member:

" I know that, there are riders who get caught doping during the TdF and get kicked out. Last year Dario Frigo (Fassa Bortolo) was 52nd on the GC when he was kicked out before stage 11 because his wife had his doping products in their car. So it's not like you're going to dope and win anyway. It's just a way to get out of training hard.

Also, remember that while some of Armstrong's B samples supposedly tested positive for EPO six years later; not ALL of the eleven samples on hand tested positive.I believe it was 6 out of 11, which speaks of bad science and proceedure"



MY RESPONSE:


Actually it makes perfect sense, if you follow the manufactures dosage schedule. Once you hit your target HCT< you only need a weekly maintence dose. So you'd be hitting in once a week. After about 4 days the test can't pick it up. so out of 7 days, 4 would test positive or 57% 6 out of 11 is 55%

When they published the findings, only a certain parameter was considered positive, you can see the percentage of synthetic metabolites dropping over time on the tests between the positives, as the body eliminated them.

Why would one devote all the time and money into the best training, equipment, team support available, yet not have the best dope doctors and medical "preperation" possible. When it has been as important as all the other aspects since the sport started? There is still no test for Hgh, and its been abused for decades now. There are still several synthetic hemoglobins that cannot be dected. WADA has no way of effectively policing autolougus transfusions (ones own blood). But they can kick the door in and find all the evidence.

Can't dope and win eh?

David Millar, World Champion, and TdF Stage Winner, never tested positive, busted doper.

Johan Museew, 3xParis Roubaix, 3xTour of Flanders, World Cup Winner 1995 and 1996, World Road Champion in 1996, never failed a test, got caught with a bed and bathroom full of dope.

Bjarne Riss, TdF Winner had an HCT of almost 58% during the Tour, low 40's 6 months prior. Dr. Ferrari said the increase was due to "training and diet" Interesting note, 10 members of the team had Hematocrit counts over 50% before the Tour in 1995. 53, 54.5, 554, 52.6, 57, 54, 60, 53, 57.3

Giro Winners Berzin and Gotti 53% and 57% respectivley

1991 World Champion Rudy Dahens, doper
1992 World Champion Gianni Bugno, banned for stimulants
1993 World Champion Lance Armstong ?
1994 World Champion Luc LeBlanc, confessed doper
1996 World Champion Mueseew, busted doper
1997 World Champion Laurent Borchard, confessed doper
1998 World Champion Oscar Camenzind, busted, admitted doper

TdF...Coppi, Anqetiel, Merckx, Fignon, Delgado etc...

Everyone else, and I mean everyone else has roomed with, raced with, rode for, was paid by, covered up for, consoled with, advised by, or was treated by someone who has been banned, indicted, busted etc.. Everyone involved knows how the game is played, and almost everyone plays along. The ones who "spit in the soup" are blacklisted. While the ones who keep quiet and sacrifice themselves are the heros.

Where are the monuments for Willy Voet, Jesus Manzano or Paul Kimmage? Instead there are ones for Tom Simpson and his uppers, Pantani etc..

To think that someone can infiltrate, be successful, almost die, make a return, and then dominate the game, while being coached/tutored by some of the games biggest cheaters, and supposedly never see, hire, support or endorse, become alarmed by, or even see any cheating is preposterous, when the cheating has been going on before the very first Tour, and every Tour after that, without exception.

A list of substances Jesus Manzano mentioned in his whistle blowing interviews after he was fired by the Kelme team a few years ago.

Actovegin (extract of calves blood which supposedly improves oxygen carrying capacity)
Albumina H. (protein in blood plasma)
Androgel (testosterone)
Aranesp (Darbepoetin alfa = super EPO)
Celestote (corticosteroid)
Eprex (EPO)
Genotorm (growth hormone)
Hemoce (plasma)
Deca durabolin (anabolic steroid)
Humatrope (growth hormone)
IgF1 (insulin growth factor 1)
Neofertinon (hormone to stimulate ovulation and estrogen production)
Neorecormon (hormone that regulates red blood cell production)
Norditropin (growth hormone)
Nuvacten (corticosteroid)
Trigon (asthma drug)
Urbason (corticosteroid)
Ventolin (bronchial dilator)
Oxandrolona (anabolic agent)
Vitamin B12 (essential B vitamin)
Triamcinolona (corticosteroid)
Testoviron (testosterone)
Aspirina (analgesic, anti-inflammatory)
Oxyglobin (artificial haemoglobin intended for anaemic dogs)
Hemopure (artificial haemoglobin)
Ferlixit (iron)
Caffeine (stimulant)
Hemassist (artificial haemoglobin)
Prozac (antidepressant)

How 'bout I give you a little bit of information regarding dopers vs. testers.

In 2003 they weren't able to detect over the counter Andro!...

<a rel=nofollow target=_blank href="http://www.wada-ama.org/rtecontent/document/b6_2003.pdf">http://www.wada-ama.org/rtecontent/document/b6_2003.pdf</a>
<a rel=nofollow target=_blank href="http://www.wada-ama.org/rtecontent/document/b2_2003.pdf">http://www.wada-ama.org/rtecontent/document/b2_2003.pdf</a>

Growthe Hormone, no test still...
<a rel=nofollow target=_blank href="http://www.wada-ama.org/rtecontent/document/a1_2002.pdf">http://www.wada-ama.org/rtecontent/document/a1_2002.pdf</a>


They are working on a cheaper quicker EPO test, because the current one costs about $800 per test.
<a rel=nofollow target=_blank href="http://www.wada-ama.org/rtecontent/d...t/a10_2003.pdf">http://www.wada-ama.org/rtecontent/d...t/a10_2003.pdf</a>



And as so far as the HBOC's I mentioned earlier (Hemoglobin based Oxygen Carriers) Wada is seeking grants and approvals to start developing tests, so they are way behind the curve on this one.
<a rel=nofollow target=_blank href="http://www.wada-ama.org/rtecontent/document/a1_2002.pdf">http://www.wada-ama.org/rtecontent/document/a1_2002.pdf</a>


They can't detect designer steroids, but they are hoping they can...
<a rel=nofollow target=_blank href="http://www.wada-ama.org/rtecontent/d...in_C3_2004.pdf">http://www.wada-ama.org/rtecontent/d...in_C3_2004.pdf</a>

I mentioned in Earlier threads that the use of transdermal testosterone gels and patches avoids the tell tale spikes of Test injections. WADA allows a 6 to 1 ratio of Test to EpiTest. Anyone naturally below the 6 to 1 ratio can raise their testoserone levels... UNDETECTED.
<a rel=nofollow target=_blank href="http://www.wada-ama.org/rtecontent/d...hanzer_D16.pdf">http://www.wada-ama.org/rtecontent/d...hanzer_D16.pdf</a>

But they are thinking ahead, in regards to gene therapy doping....
<a rel=nofollow target=_blank href="http://www.wada-ama.org/rtecontent/d...Roberts_C6.pdf">http://www.wada-ama.org/rtecontent/d...Roberts_C6.pdf</a>

I dont race my bike for a living, nor do I dope guys who race their bikes for a living, but if I can find this info, surely those who do can find it as well.


It's a battle, that the athletes are "winning" The desire to win and make a lot of money is always going to be stronger than the desire to put a stop to it. And the pharma compaines know there is money in this too. They catch guys with stuff thats still in clinical trials... and how does one get ahold of that?


Connect the dots.....
From the first recorded doping death of Arthur Linton (trimethyl) in 1886

To 1924 - "this is cocaine for the eyes and chloroform for the gums. This is ointment to warm the knees. And pills: You want to see the pills.' They pulled out three containers. 'In short,' said Francis Pelissier, 'we ride with dynamite.'"

To Tom Simpsons death on the Ventoux with amphetemines in his blood.

To Anqutiel admitting to amphetemine use "only when I need them" how often is that? "most of the time"

To Bernard Thevent admitting in 1977 after winning his 2nd tour that is liver was rotted from cortisone

To the Blood boosting 1984 US Olympic Cycling Team, and the members who are still involved with the sport at the highest level, and coaching Lance

To Delgados positive for a masking agent that was banned by the IOC but not the UCI which kept him in yellow

To Riis 56% hematocrit test (up 15 pts in a few months) the year he de-throned Indurain

To Fignons quote regards to doping "I did what I had to do, if I die before I'm 50, thats my business"

To the Festina Affair Virenque, Dafaux, Brochard, Moreau, Zulle etc..

To Postals Actovegin in 2000

To Pantani

To David Millar never testing positive

To Muusew

To Tyler and Santiago Perez, (edit to mention that tyler has been implicated again, along with his wife)


And all the others in between I forgot.

It's been going on for over 100 years, the show is run by ex racers and dopers, the old guard does it to keep their jobs, the favorites do it for the glory, the young ones are willing to do it because if they dont, there are others waiting to take those jobs..

You're a kid who dropped out of school to race your bike, because your only marketable skill was the ability to endure extreme discomfort for hours on end. You get picked up by a pro team, get paid 5000 euros a month, your teamates are on the needle, you are not, but your not getting results, youre getting pounded on by the guys who are in the program, the Manager says theyre going to cut your salary in half if you dont start producing, what do you do?

It's a horrible circling beast, driven by money, greed, and glory.

The Following is a repost of my rantings from last year..


Originally Posted a Bike Forums Member "where did I say that Lance hasn't taken performancing enhancing drugs. My point is he has not been caught and because of that reason I am not making judgements. I get the feeling from some of you that he's guilty of doping because of his performance. Thus he has to be taking performance enhancers. It's Lance's job to prove his innocence. What am I missing here? You know my neighbor is an alcoholic, so I guess I am too. We both have homes, we both have two vehicles, etc, etc,. It's guilt by association."


Response:

I like the alcoholic analogy, but you left out some key details.


You started going to parties at young age, and you really liked it. Sometimes you would have a good time, sometimes you would have a great time. So you kept going to bigger and better parties, sometimes you'd have a good time, sometimes you'd have such a bad time, you'd go home early. Every now and then you would have another really great time. The better time you have, the more parties you got invited too, and you discover that having the absolute best time at the party is what you really want out of life.

But then you start to notice that some of the guys you party with are drinking! And the guys that are drinking start having a better time than a lot of the guys who don't drink. Then you meet some new friends, guys named Ochowicz, Borysewicz, Gorski, and Carmichael. These guys have been partying for years, and they drank back then, some even bartended a little on the side. In 1984 They went to a big party at the Olympics and got so drunk, they had the absolute best time in the world!

These guys like your style, so they take you under their wing, and they start teaching you how to have a better time at the parties, they give you all sorts of advice and assistance as your Chaperones. The more parties you went to, the more you realized how many people were drinking, but you befriended them all anyways. Guys from different countries, all partying together, some drinking some not, but everyone trying to have the best time they could. You knew it was going on, after all, some people need to drink to have a good time. Every group of guys had their own bartender, Some of your Chaperones know a lot of them by name, as they all used to drink and party together years ago. Your group has a bartender too. Will your Chaperones expect you to drink? who knows, but they always tell you they had a great time at the parties when they drank.

Now you're partying with your Chaperones and friends on a World Class level, and your having some pretty good times in Belgium and France, but then you get sick, really sick, and they say you may even die. But you go to the bar, and a group of bartenders make you drinks, drinks that save your life. You see the power of the drink, and after you recover, everyone wants to know if you looked to God, or found religion while teetering on the brink. Your answer? You thank your bartenders, without them, you wouldn't be here today.

So you start partying again, and its hard to have a really good time again, but you meet a new friend, He's a Bartender, in fact he is the best bartender in all the land. His name is Michele Ferrari, and he has recipes from all over the world. Not only are his drinks great, and expensive, but he swears to you that you can drink them, and no one will ever know. After all, He is in the Bartending Hall of Fame, well, for sportsbars anyways. And he has served drinks to some of the greatest partiers of all time, and they all had great times! Not only did you visit him from time to time, you stood up for him, when other partiers tried to give his recipes away to people who wanted to close his bar down. These people also want to know if you are drinking at Ferrari's Bar and Grill, you tell them you are only there for the dirty jokes, the pool table and the pretzels.

In 1999 you blew a very low number on a breathalyzer test, not enough to get arrested, but it was not something that could be ignored. Turns out you only sat in a puddle of booze, and your chaperones had an old permission slip from a bartender that allowed you to be in the bar when it happened. Wierd that the ink was still fresh..

In 2000, after tough night of partying at your place, a TV crew filmed members of your party entourage throwing out empty bottles of Actovegin Lite (transports oxygen great, less filling). But the Party Organizers had never heard of this beer, and had to add it to the drink list immediatley after.

Every Summer after that, you had the best time out of everyone at the Big Bash in July, some guys would get caught drinking from time to time, and had to go home early, some were unlucky enough to get pulled over with a case of Schlitz in the trunk of thier wifes car. A few fellas you used to party with had some good stories about when you got drunk, and a girl who used to come over and decorate for the party named Emma Oreilly said she made a few runs to the liquor store for you, but other than that, You kept partying better than anyone else for seven years in a row, And became a hero.



Now, knowing all this, can I say for sure that you're an alcoholic? No, of course not.

But after 15 years of partying, and trying to have a better and better time, after making friends with, getting advice from and surrounding yourself with drunks, alchoholics and bartenders, and having a personal parking space, and a key to the liquor cabinet at Ferraris Bar and Grill. I can't believe that you never ever poured a glass and had a sip.

and some more... I mean is it still sport when you need all this to get 3rd at the TdF?

The following are the substances and quantities seized from Mrs. Rumsas on July 28th:

3 flasks of Actovegin
1 flask of Norditropin penset 24 (growth hormone)
1 flask of TAD 600
1 flask of solvent for Norditropin
1 injection of Actrapid Novolet (insulin)
1 box of Spascupreel
1 box of albumine humaine 20 %
1 box of Ubichinon Compositum (co-enzyme Q)
2 boxes of Thyreoida Compositum (hormone extracts)
3 boxes of Testis Compositum (hormone extracts)
2 ampoules of Coffeinum (caffeine)
1 ampoule of Celestone (anti-inflammatory)
1 ampoule of Benexol B12 5000 (vitamins)
3 ampoules of Ketonal
3 flasks of Kenacort retard (corticoids)
1 box of Toco 500 (vitamin E)
1 bottle of sodium chloride 0.9
3 capsules of No Spa Forte
15 capsules of Durvitan (caffeine)
10 ampoules and one tablet of Pentohexal 300 (vasodilator)
1 box and three tablets of MAG 2 (magnesium)
12 capsules of Ozothine
15 capsules of Optalidon
2 packets of Eurythrox 50
2 boxes of Immunoferon (immuno-stimulants)
2 boxes of Trofalgon
1 box of Androderm (testosterone)
6 capsules and one ampoule of Alphalipon (improves nervous functions)
2 tablets of Stilnox
4 capsules of Oltramp
30 tablets of Bentelan (corticoids)
30 tablets and 4 ampoules of Voltaren (anti-inflammatory)
3 tablets of Praxilen
1 tablet of Cafiaspirina (caffeine and aspirin)
1 ampoule of sterile water and one flask of Haes-Steril
1 flask of Geref (enhances production of endogenous HG)

Oh Look, Actovegin again, Maybe the Rumsas were just keeping it cold for Postal......

The Good news is Rumsas finally got sloppy and tested positive for EPO.

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