Re: "Call to the Nations" Speech -- The Blind Leading the Blind Discussion Board

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Date Posted: 18:58:09 03/27/01 Tue
Author: John Nichols
Subject:

Re: "Call to the Nations" Speech
In reply to: cezoram 's message, "Re: "Call to the Nations" Speech" on 20:19:46 03/24/01 Sat

cezoram;

it is quite possible to be lonely... even in a crowd...

john

>
>Another part that disturbs me about Grant's message,
>is the following:
>
>"The journey to the cross was a
>lonely one and Jesus cried out in anguish
>for understanding, even
>for his own understanding."
>
>What is this all about? How could Jesus' journey to
>the cross be lonely? There were throngs of people
>observing this event. The guards were with Jesus
>every step of the way, to beat Him or to scourge Him.
>When Jesus stumbled under the weight of the cross, a
>man stepped out and carried His cross for Him. When
>Jesus was put on the cross, He had a man hanging on
>either side of Him. Jesus told the one man that he
>would be with Him in paradise. Jesus was in the
>company of others during His whole journey to the
>cross. If this is what Grant is referring to, then he
>is not familiar with the scriptures which speak of
>Jesus' crucifixion.
>
>But I do not believe that Grant is referring to this
>type of loneliness, though. Instead, could Grant be
>referring to Jesus' journey to the cross without God
>being with Him? If so, where would Grant get such an
>idea? The scriptures do not speak of God leaving
>Jesus during His journey to the cross. If they did
>speak of this, they would be very confusing. The Book
>of Mormon says that Jesus is both the Father and the
>Son. Jesus could not leave Himself. What is Grant
>speaking of?
>
>Could Grant be speaking of Jesus on the cross, where
>He cried, "My God, my God, why has Thou forsaken me?"
>A better translation of this passage can be found in
>Lamsa' translation of the Bible, which reads something
>like, "My God, my God, this is what you have spared me
>for!" In this case, God never leaves Jesus. As I
>said prior, Jesus is both the Father and Son. He
>cannot leave Himself.
>
>So, I ask again: How was Jesus' journey to the cross a
>lonely one?
>
>Secondly, Grant said that Jesus cried in anguish for
>understanding, even His own understanding. Where is
>this written in the scriptures? Where do we see any
>reference to Jesus' lack of understanding? If not
>before Gethsemane, in the Garden of Gethsemane, we see
>the Son saying to the Father, if there is any other
>way for this atonement to take place, let this cup
>pass from me. But Jesus knew that there was not other
>way. At the latest, it was in Gethsemane that Jesus
>understood His mission. Jesus knew what He must do,
>and why. But I believe that Jesus knew earlier than
>Gethsemane, concerning His mission. Jesus was found
>at the age of 12, teaching in the temple. Teaching,
>not being taught. Jesus must have known at that age,
>what He was born on Earth to accomplish. Yet, Grant
>tells us that Jesus was crying in anguish on the way
>to the cross, trying to understand why He was going to
>be crucified.
>
>If Jesus did not know at this point, why didn't Jesus
>tell Pilate that there was some mistake? Why didn't
>Jesus tell Pilate and the chief priests that He was
>not the Son of God, when He was asked? What didn't
>Jesus understand until He was journeying toward the
>cross, or perhaps, not until He was hanging on the
>cross? That He is the Son of God? That He is God in
>the flesh? That He must shed His blood, so that we
>can all be redeemed from hell and the grave? That He
>would be raised from the dead by the power of God?
>What didn't Jesus understand?
>
>If Jesus did not understand who He was or what His
>mission was until He was upon the cross, how do we
>know that He ever understood? How do we know that
>Jesus didn't die without understanding? If Jesus did
>not understand, how could He atone for our sins? By
>accident? Why would God raise Jesus from the dead, if
>Jesus lacked understanding? Grant said, >color="blue">"But he went to the cross that we might
>have life and life eternal." How does Grant
>know this? How can Grant understand this, if Jesus
>did not even understand this? If Jesus did not
>understand what Grant understands, then Jesus must be
>only a common man like you and I, and Grant is some
>supreme being.
>
>If Jesus is no more that a common man, why should we
>listen to His words? Why should we worship Him in any
>way then?
>
>Grant, in his message, cast doubt on ever knowing what
>Jesus did or said, just because the "scholars"
>question it. Grant said, >color="blue">"Historical critics quickly explained
>that we cannot really know what Jesus would do,
>because this passage or that event is questionable in
>terms of its authenticity."
>
>How is this faith-building? Thanks for the doubt,
>Grant!
>
>If scholars do not know what is true and what isn't,
>how can we have any assurance that Jesus was crucified
>and raised again from the dead? We can't, unless the
>scholars are wrong.
>
>So, again, it seems, Grant makes a speech that is
>tearing down our faith. Shouldn't we expect more from
>a prophet, seer, and revelator?
>
>Cezoram
>

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