| Subject: If "Jesus was not God on Earth".... |
Author:
nontrinitarian
|
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Date Posted: 11:16:39 05/28/07 Mon
Author Host/IP: nv-71-49-131-129.dhcp.embarqhsd.net/71.49.131.129
In reply to:
Sherwood
's message, "Re: Questions about the Trinity" on 20:52:49 09/02/03 Tue
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If Jesus was not God on Earth, as you say....
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Then:
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1- when he said "I am", he was not claiming to be God.
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2-When Thomas said "My lord and my God", he did not mean to say that Jesus was his God...either it was a simple exclamatory spoken to Jesus in response to Jesus showing him the holes in his hands, proving that he really was Jesus who had died and been resurrected - like "my goodness", or Thomas was remembering that Jesus had told them all that God dwelt IN him, guiding and empowering his words and speech, and addressing both Jesus AND Jesus's God dwelling within him ("I ascend to my God and your God" - Jesus - Jn. 20:17).
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3-If the Pharisees thought Jesus was "making himself God", they were mistaken....but in fact the greek is just "theos", not "ho theos". They were saying that Jesus's blasphemy was to declare himself a divinely empowered person, just as angels and judges were called "gods" (elohim) BY God Himself as an acknowledgement that His spirit was indwelling and empowering him. If Jesus was not annointed with God's spirit (theos) as he claimed, that would indeed be blasphemy. The point is that it had NOTHING to do with Jesus claiming to be THE God (Jehovah...ho theos). Jesus made this crystal clear when responding to the charge by reminding his accusers that God had called the OT judges "gods", and that he merely claimed to be the SON of God, so how could he be blaspheming? Notice that he did NOT discuss the question of whether or not he was claiming to BE God, because that was never the nature of the accusation to begin with. The correct translation...the one which gives the actual sense of the Greek here would be "He, being a man, makest himself a god (a divinely annointed and empowered person)".
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4-Jesus receiving and accepting "worship" (Gr. proskenaeu) would not "prove" that he was God, but merely be an acknowledgement that he was God's annointed priest, prophet, king and saviour. He could not receive worship AS God if he was "not God on Earth".
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I completely agree with you. Jesus was not God on Earth. Neither was he God before he came to earth ("I proceeded forth and came FROM God, NEITHER CAME I OF MYSELF, but HE sent me"), nor was he God after his ascension ("Jesus now appears IN THE PRESENCE OF God").
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You can't have it both ways. If Jesus was not God on Earth, then all of the trinitarian proofs that he was God which depend upon statements made by or about him while he was on earth are false.
>>These are questions that I have always wondered in
>>regards to the trinity.
>>
>>1. Can God die? If not, and Jesus was God, how could
>>he die?
>
> Jesus was not God on earth?
>
>
>>
>>2. Can God be tempted? The Bible says no, yet Jesus
>>was tempted in the wilderness.
>
> Jesus was not God tempted on Earth (gets confusing).
>
>>
>>3. Did Jesus pray to himself? If not, then how was He
>>God?
>
> Jesus clearly was not God on earth
>
>
>>4. Is God in parts? That is, if there are 3 persons to
>>make 1 God, is God a compostite of persons? How then
>>is he a singular being if composed of three 'persons'?
>
>
> Not a orthodox view which states God is three
>entities, not a ALL in ONE concep
>
>
>>5. Why doesn't the Holy Spirit ever send greetings?
>
> Noted ;-)
>
>
>>6. Has the holy Spirit ever appeared as a man? If God
>>appeared as a man, and Jesus appeared as a man, then
>>why hasn't the Holy Spirit appeared as a man? How are
>>they equal if they have not appeared equally?
>
>
> A mystery
>
>
>>I have to go. Thinking about the trinity gives me a
>>headache... heck, it gives me three headaches.. wait,
>>maybe it's only one headache in three personal
>>headaches... Oy.
>
> Practically - take 2 asperin. Wait 3 minutes.
>Pray. Forget it, take a cup of wine like Jesus (if it
>is not a noose your soul [flesh]).
>
>>Bmark
>
> Hi Bmark ;-)
>
>Sherwood
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