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Date Posted: 03:11:31 08/05/05 Fri
Author: all
Subject: responses
In reply to: Araninda 's message, "Episode of the Week Discussion. . .Inside" on 02:51:07 08/05/05 Fri

Oh, how I love this episode. This has just about everything that I loved about JAG, especially during seasons 3-4 and it just shows how far JAG had fallen from the end of season eight. 1. Definitely a 5. This is one of my top-10 JAG episodes. The first and best of the "People v." episodes. 2. I think at this point he wasn't really sure they had much in common beyond their military careers and that she really hurt him by leaving, because I don't think he saw her and Dalton as having much in common either and I don't think he thought she and Dalton were that serious. In a way, I think his brig break was a wake-up for him because he realized he needed her and he knew he could trust her with his life. If he didn't realize before now that she was his best friend (with the potential for more), he sure did with this episode. 3. I think they really were fakes, even though Parlovsky did have a lot to lose if they had been real (as we saw later in "Gypsy Eyes"). At that point in the episode, he's not toying with Harm yet, although I think he is by the end. He sends Harm a real picture of his dad (although the picture didn't quite look the same as the one we later saw in "To Russia With Love"), knowing Harm's not going to stop looking, and wanting to control what information Harm gets and how he gets it. Then, he will try to get rid of Harm to make sure that anything Harm learns dies with him. 4. Because she's an idiot? Okay, seriously, I never understood why she was so attracked to Dalton and his world (although too be honest, I tolerated her relationship with Dalton more than Mic or Clay, probably because it was so short, relatively speaking and it wasn't shoved down our throats the way the other two were). The only thing I can think of is that perhaps she realized that her entire adult life had been defined as being a Marine and she wanted to see if there was something else out there for her. Although the sparks were there, she hadn't realized yet that what she really wanted beyond the Marines was right in front of her. 5. More of Harm/Mac in her apartment? What kind of sparks were there between them? Did Harm's situation (and how much she missed him) have any influence of her deciding to return to JAG? There is so much that made this episode special - AJ and Clay acting the way they should have at the end of season eight and later. I loved how Mac rolled her eyes when Clay walked out of JAG HQ after the Article 32 hearing was over. Mac and Bud both being there for Harm they way they should have been during Meltdown. Carolyn Imes as a serious attorney before TIIC made her just another recurring character that they ruined for no good reason (Lindsey, Imes, that Commander from "Collision Course" that appeared in Season 10, etc). AJ standing by his people (his withholding Mac's resignation and the compliment he paid Harm when he said he didn't want to lose another good attorney).(NT) ---- TracyJean, 21:33:50 07/29/05 Fri

Ooops, forgot the second half of #4. I think AJ knew Mac better than she knew herself and knew that she'd never be happy as a civilian. (NT) -- TracyJean, 21:36:00 07/29/05 Fri

(1) I give it a 4, just because Mac is with Dalton. I think my favorite scene is at the end with AJ, Mac and Harm with H&M like 2 kids having to appear before the principal. Harm is so cute trying to help!!! (2) Mac was involved with Dalton and it's Harm's MO to withdraw when she's with another man. Would have loved to see him put up a fight for her!!! (3) He just wanted to save his own hide. I think his intention from the beginning of the deal.(4) The thrill and prestige of high-profile court cases, which never materialized. About AJ, as Brumby once said they're all a little bit in love with Mac. (5) I'd love to see the scene where Harm and Mac talked about her taking the case. (NT) ---- Jaggiegold, 22:02:07 07/29/05 Fri

I really liked this ep. I even enjoyed when Clowne sort of apologized for seducing Mac. thought it was cute if you could ignore it was him. I loved the way Mac wiped the floor with the prosecutions case & the way Harm looked when he told Carolyn she was fired. I suspect the reason he didn't go to Mac first was to allow for that dramatic moment, because when he was in real trouble he showed up on her doorstep. I thoroughly enjoyed the interaction with Harm & the marine he once defended. Loved the old webb assembling the gun for the brig break. that's the webb I could live with. (NT) -- Chris K - who never really cared why AJ didn't process the resignation but loved the way Harm and Mac worked that scene., 22:11:04 07/29/05 Fri

How could I forget... classic Bud... when he started to tell the Admiral what time it was... LOL... then later when he told Harm he was already aiding and abetting how much more involved could he be... I think everyone in this ep did a great job. OH and as for parlosfky... since he sent Harm the photo... I think he was telling the truth about the documents being forged. (NT) -- Chris K - who forgot to say.. I think this ep was a 4...probably because all Harm gave mac was a back rub... LOL, 22:14:00 07/29/05 Fri

And the way Bud stood up to Harm when Harm tried to tell him to stay away. I recall thinking that was the first hint that Bud was going to be able to interact with Harm as an equal in court and wasn't going to be cowed by his mentor. (NT) -- TracyJean, 22:17:07 07/29/05 Fri

This ep had some of the best loyalty scenes of the show... Mac harboring a fugitive... disobeying a direct order (even if she thought she wasn't in the marines) Bud aiding and abetting - AJ holding back the resignation.. It's all the key factors that we all felt were missing from the last two seasons (NT) -- Chris K - who loved how even the sad eps always ended with a support group in the end... remember baby it's cold outside?, 22:24:37 07/29/05 Fri

Clay helping Harm with his brig break....sigh. "Those were the days, oh, yes those were the days." (NT) -- TracyJean, 22:39:08 07/29/05 Fri

Yeah, Dalton was actually halfway decent when he admitted he knew she wasn't happy and was not going to try to hold her in his world. He really wasn't too terribly bad a character until "Chains Of Command" and "The Stalker" (NT) -- TracyJean, 22:14:35 07/29/05 Fri

I agree...he was almost endearing at times. But he suffered from the same thing as all of the other men in Mac's life.. he wasn't Harm.. LOL (NT) -- Chris K, 22:16:39 07/29/05 Fri

I cant say I agree about Dalton. I hated the way he said he had 'gotten' her that position at the firm. He belittled her as far as I was concerned. I never liked him and when he showed his true colors later on, I knew I was right. Harm had him pegged from the begiining. 'Lowne the Clowne.' (NT) -- mkim, 00:55:11 07/30/05 Sat

I'm with you mkim, I thought not only Dalton but all the other partners belittled Mac. Those two scenes in "Impact", the one at the party with the partners and the Senator, the other in their conference room. Both times IMHO classic male chavenistic comments were made. Where it me, I'd been out the door in a flash. Smary, condescending, "little woman" bunk. (NT) -- clr, 13:30:37 07/30/05 Sat

This is the Jag we all love. Its entertaining and fabulously acted.This laid the groundwork for more of Harm Sr.arc,the fate of Harm and Mac's fate. AJ represents the audience knowing Mac belongs nowhere else but Jag. Its also good to see our Jag family in this ep. from Bud, AJ, Harriet, Imes, Mattoni, Webb and even the wishywashy FBI buddies of Harm. No doubt Dalton stands no chance with Harm when Mac practically threw everything to be at the side of her man. Sometimes women even like Mac think the smartest way to do is leave and try a new life because she thought Harm didnt love her. Little did she know he loves her and needs her too. So much to discuss, to savor and to smile in this episode. The ep. was Harm & Mac packed. (NT) --- NevadaGH -jealous that Mac gets a massage from Harm.LOL!, 22:20:43 07/29/05 Fri

1)5-I didn't vote for this ep, but I loved it. It had everything including all the caring and comraderie missing from the last two seasons. Bud was great too when he wouldn't let Harm send him away. Mac, of course was in his corner but so was AJ despite him doing something far worse then going to Paraguay. 2- Harm was obsessed with finding his father. That was all that was on his mind. He was singleminded when it came to his father. He didn't call any lawyer, Imes was assigned to him. 3 - probably real and that's why Parvlosky had to destroy them. Why destroy them if they were harmless 4 - I understand Mac. I left a job I loved once just because of the financial inducement. As it turns out, it wasn't enough. 5 - I would like to have known what it took to convince Harm the guy with the docs was genuine. Aside; I do love that he went to Mac when he escaped and she was there for him in his time of need. And yes, I agree, a massage from Harm would be heavenly. Why didn't she jump him right then??? (NT)---- judi, 22:33:05 07/29/05 Fri

A great ep, I'd give it a 4, the only thing it lacked was a little humor to break the tension. (2) Why didn't Harm call Mac first? Harm was hurt, jealous and felt abandoned by Mac. Hurt: in "Impact" he says about her leaving "I understand it but I don't like it" with that hurt puppy dog look on his face -- totally not the emotionally distant/walls up look we saw so often. Jealous: in "CTL" Harm and Mac have a conversation in the carrier hanger where he questions what she sees in Dalton and is (to my eyes) heated up. "He drives a Porsche" "Well I fly Tomcats". Now if that isn't Alpha-male preening for a potential mate, I don't know what is. Abandoned by Mac: Hey, the way I see Harm he has *huge* abandonment issues --his Dad, his Mom marrying Frank, Diane. I think to him this was just another in a long series of people he'd come to care about abandoning him. And therefore he wasn't going to ask her to help him, for fear she wouldn't. 3) Were the documents fake? I could argue either way but given that Parlovsky sent the photo, and wrote on it "this one is real", and the photo did in fact provide the starting point to get Harm the answers on his father (and Parlovsky *had* to know the pilot/interogater guy that was in the pic was now in the States...and we know Parlovsky knew Harm had CIA connections so he could find him) I vote for fake. But has anyone carefully compared Mac's translations of Harm Srs. Russian travels per these docs to her translation of the docs in TRWL/GE? My recall could easily be flawed, but I think different destinations are named. 4) Why did Mac leave JAG? I think Mac got into a vicious cycle...She met Dalton somewhere/somehow (I don't think we were ever given the details), he started pursuing her professionally and sexually, "people" found out (read the Admiral here), AJ thinks Mac is gonna leave, AJ starts giving Mac crappy cases, Mac starts to think she is undervalued and/or unworthy (she does have all those self-esteem issues, MO), Dalton and his disgusting partners wine and dine her, she tumbles to the bait (both professionally and sexually). I think Harm saw what was happening and tried to warn her...when she asked him in "Impact" why AJ was down on her he told her "the same reason we all are", meaning the pervasive belief at JAG that she was leaving for a cushy civilian firm. 5) The scene I wanted to see? Harm putting on those jeans! Oh please, in my next life can I be Harm's favorite pair of well- and often-worn jeans? One final note, which I'm afraid may aggrevate the Webb-protector, but jeez, Webb can't even successfully collar Parlovsky in a public place when he has him outnumbered and the element of surprise? Did Webb ever have a successful mission? Sure he had his uses, but I find my suspension of disbelief strained putting Webb in such a high position of power in the CIA. Or maybe...he really was a low-level minon all along and the JAG folks just didn't know.(NT) ---- clr, saying "Thanks" again to Hope for great caps!!!, 22:33:19 07/29/05 Fri

BTW, I have an early draft of this script, & there's a scene in it we didn't see. It is Mac questioning Webb on the witness stand, & he testifies that, in his opinion, Parlovsky was the killer & that Parlovsky likes to use the kind of gun that the murder weapon was. This scene was to come right after Mac questions the FBI firearms expert. (NT) -- Araninda, 22:44:42 07/29/05 Fri

ooh, that's interesting... I love finding out cut things from scripts. They can be so revieling of what the writer's or even DPB were really thinking. (NT) -- Chris K - thanks A., 22:49:02 07/29/05 Fri

And that would certainly explain why Webb was even in court. Just being there to support Harm is a little too overt for him. (NT) -- TracyJean, 22:49:58 07/29/05 Fri

Also, in the script draft, Dalton was supposed to be seen in the spectator's section of the courtroom too, watching Mac's performance & watching her interaction with Harm. (NT) -- Araninda, 22:55:16 07/29/05 Fri

oh that's interesting... Was the scene with her and him in her office the same as what we saw or slightly different? (NT) -- Chris K, 22:58:28 07/29/05 Fri

In the draft I have it was the same, except at the end after Dalton says "I don't care where you work, as long as you come home to me." Mac says "We'll see" and walks out the office door. I'll have to check my tape again, but I think the scene as aired ended with Dalton's line. (NT) -- Araninda, 23:03:12 07/29/05 Fri

Actually her words in the draft are: "We'll talk about it." I can't type & read at the same time! (NT) -- Araninda, 23:04:23 07/29/05 Fri

The scene with Webb saying he thinks Parlovsky pulled the trigger is in the show and then Mac holds up the gun which Webb says is his weapon of choice....at least on my tape (NT) -- manette, 23:06:32 07/29/05 Fri

Dont know if USA cut it but indeed Dalton was watching Mac in action in the courtroom. Reminded me of WI with Farrow watching the courtroom but left because he probably could not stand the foreplay between Rabb and Mackenzie. I so love this ep.and so awesome that Mac was kickass for Harm and did you see the look on Harm's face? He's so proud of her::THUD:: This gets a 5 from me. (NT) -- T2, 23:06:36 07/29/05 Fri

Da*n that USA for cutting scenes to fit in more promos! They must have cut the Dalton-in-the-courtroom shot as well 'cause it sure isn't on any one of the three USA airings of this ep that I have taped! Grrrr (NT) -- clr, yes I admitt multiple tapings of the same ep is a little anal-retentive, but I can't seem to help myself., 23:30:31 07/29/05 Fri

I don't have a Dalton in the courtroom scene on my copy that has the Webb scene. (NT) -- manette--was that just in the script and was cut before it was filmed?, 00:24:03 07/30/05 Sat

Dalton is nowhere to be seen in the courtroom when Webb is testifying on the version which I have (History Television.) (NT) -- Lori Lynn, 20:28:59 07/30/05 Sat

I aree with the others. This was JAG at it's best. Friendship, loyalty, seeking the truth. Each character was the epitome of their character. Why did we lose this? IF JAG remained at this level, it's still be on and getting high ratings. (NT) -- Spud, 23:09:36 07/29/05 Fri

5 I think Mac was seduced by the opportunity to work on high profile cases and prehaps argue before the Supreme Court, the Holy Grail for attornies. She became disillusioned when that did not materialize. I wonder what would have happened if she had been given useful work to do! I loved the emotion in the Admirals voice when he told Harm he didn't want to lose another attorney. (NT) -- psych9, 23:10:50 07/29/05 Fri

that's right.. at the party they were discussing the high profile cases dalton's firm handled and when parlofsky came to see her she was more than a little disgruntled with all the briefs she was writing - she considered herself a litigator and expected to be litigating cases that might make huge differences to the general public, not just the military.. When she saw the reality of the high profile firm, she realized how important what she did in the military was and how big a part of her it was (NT) -- Chris K, 23:16:46 07/29/05 Fri

Tour de force Jag.All characters were uniformly excellent especially Harm and Mac. The familyness was ever-present.We have loyalty between Harm and Mac and sweet helpings as well.Even back then my friends and I knew this two love each other but the biggest blocker is TPTB. {{inside to cont}} -- JosieW, 23:46:03 07/29/05 Fri

I agree with Chris because we saw Mac's interaction with Imes that she regretted leaving Jag. She thought she would make a difference but said something about being the dusting lady of the Law Firm.Forgot her exact term. Interesting to note too that Imes like all Jag characters knew somethings up with Harm and Mac.LOL! I love this episode too much I will watch it again tom.night along with Fairwinds. (NT) -- JosieW, 23:49:00 07/29/05 Fri

1)It's a five--no doubt about it!! Obsessive Harm is always fun to watch. 2)I think he was content to take the attorney assigned until he saw she wasn't going to try for not guilty and I think when Mac showed up in court that gave him the signal he needed to go to her when he broke out of the brig and then ask her to be his lawyer. 3)I will go with fake since he sent him the real photograph later. 4)Dalton's world was a new challenge--the lure of big cases before the Supreme Court and the Admiral had been giving her grunt work--which made it seem more tempting. And she had to leave to know how much JAG meant to her. 5)I would have loved to have seen more between them in the apartment--and of course I think missing Harm and being needed by him when he was in trouble was a big reason she returned to JAG. A scene I didn't remember til I rewatched was when Bud at the beginning after he's been arrested says 'Welcome back.' and Harm asks 'Where have I been?' and Bud says 'I can't really say, but I'm really glad you're not there anymore.' Classic funny Bud while he's being supportive. And Clay was perfectly Webbish in this-- the way he was supposed to be...darn it.(NT) -- manette, 23:46:08 07/29/05 Fri

One thing I have always wondered about this episode is: How did Mac know where Harm was to send Bud with the clothes & the message from Parlovsky? (NT) -- Araninda, 00:23:59 07/30/05 Sat

They could have talked about where he was going to hide out during the night while he was at her apartment--or even when it cut from him saying he was leaving to him leaving her apartment. We don't see him actually leave so he could have told her where he'd be. (NT) -- manette, 00:26:27 07/30/05 Sat

Its a 5 for me. I loved it all, Harm and Mac's relationship. The way I remembered it when I didnt recognize them in seasons 9 and 10) AJ...Bud...Everyone. Even Webb. But now that I know what he's capable of, his cryptic comments about friendship take on a new meaning entirely. 2)I dont know, unless he just didnt want to cause her any trouble, the Russians were pretty dangerous people in this. 3)I think the info was true, why would Parlovsky have wanted them so badly if they werent. 4)Dalton's world was appealing because it was glamourous and it promised to put Mac in a position (she thought) to argue a case before the Supreme Court. A Dalton Lie, I hated it when he said he had 'gotten' the job for her and she let him get by with that. She earned her way in, she should have said so. 5)I would like to have heard the all night conversation between Harm and Mac while she was translating the documents. How do you say 'C'mere!' in Russian???? (NT)---- mkim, 00:45:51 07/30/05 Sat

I also give it a five :):)! You guys have stated the reasons :)! (NT) -- Acer, 07:05:47 07/30/05 Sat

I really enjoyed this episode. You guys are so right, this is what Meltdown should have been. I especially love how well they fit together when Harm was giving Mac the massage. It's where he belonged from the beginning. I also loved the look on the Admiral's face when they hugged when they won the case. (NT) -- Martian Barb, 07:13:20 07/30/05 Sat

I'll give it a four, maybe a 4.5. It was excellent, but it's not in my top ten. 2) At first, I think he thought getting off was a "no brainer." He knew he didn't do it, so he figured anyone (with his direction, lol) could do the job. Also, she's just started a new life, maybe he didn't want to intrude until she was more settled. 3)Both. There was probably some false info in the documents, but Parlovsky knew there was enough truth in the story to get someone as relentless as Harm started on the right path. 4) I think it was a combination of things. Dalton wanted her, it was a great job, she was flattered by the attention. Also, we've sort of been lead to believe that due to her father's drinking, Mac probably had a more or less hand to mouth existance as a kid. A very big salary for doing what she was basically already doing would be very attractive to her. She'd want security, especially if she was thinking 'family.' I don't think Dalton was the type to put up with his wife being gone for the military at the drop of a hat, so there was that to consider. Don't know why AJ didn't process it, since by giving her crappy cases he was practically tossing her out the door. Because that's the way the show went, I guess. 5) More interaction between the DD I guess. Before the cops showed up. (NT) -- CM>^.,.^<, 09:33:22 07/30/05 Sat

Watching it again, it even goes up in my estimation , close to a 5. The plot is great. DJE at his best and its well written, excellent dialog. All the leading characters show concern with one another, and the Admiral repeatedly intervenes in Harm's behalf, in stark contrast to the way his part was written at the end. In curiiosity, does anyone recall which episodes Imes was in earlier? And is there really an air museum in Alexandria? Not when I used to live in that area. Marvelous episode. (NT) -- Truman, 10:27:53 07/30/05 Sat

PvR was her 1st appearance on the show. Imes (played by Dana Sparks) was also in Defenseless, Stalker, Wedding Bell Blues, People v. Mac, The Adversaries, Yeah, Baby, all in seasons 3 & 4. She came back for The Return & Shifting Sands. And in season 9, she was in Back in the Saddle with the storyline of faking her credentials. (NT) -- Araninda, 11:22:45 07/30/05 Sat

4.25 I loved the comraderie and loyalty in this ep. Such a contrast with Meltdown and later eps. As for the other questions, most of my answers have already been voiced. I have to agree with everyone, I would have liked to have seen a lot more of the interaction at Mac's apartment. I'm grateful for the backrub that we got to see, but like a lot of fans, I WANT MORE! (NT) -- JAG Junkie, 11:03:47 07/30/05 Sat

I really loved this episode, mostly for the character interactions. My two favorite scenes are 1) Bud going to see Harm - Harm not wanting to get him involved and Bud yelling at him, but still calling him Sir - classic Bud! and 2) Harm and Mac spontaneously hugging in the courtroom - in front of AJ no less! (NT) -- Tina - thinking these really were the good old days, 13:09:15 07/30/05 Sat

This is slightly OT, but it seems to me that the writers/DPB really have a strong contempt for both the CIA and FBI. I mean Webb, even at his best like in this ep, still mostly bungles his missions (our DD has to save the day). The only two times I recall the FBI are this ep and An Act of Terror. Both times they're portrayed as incompetent and liars/perjurers. For an otherwise patriotic show, it seems to me to work pretty hard running down two agencies that also are for our defense. Or am I misinterpreting? (NT) -- clr, 13:49:06 07/30/05 Sat

Unless the show is actually about the FBI and CIA, most references to the two agencies are negative on tv. They have been for a long time. I don't know why, but they always show them to be screw-ups, inept, pushy, and just plain mean. From what I gather, the US let the CIA resourses plummet for many years. But I should imagine that now, even more than during the cold war, a strong CIA is really important. I'm not an American, but I've heard the same kind of contempt about our CSIS. I never heard that tone with Britain's Secret Service, MI 5, etc. (NT) -- Cece, 12:18:56 07/31/05 Sun

I think most of the negative references are meant to highlight the supposed "turf wars" between agencies that drive the plot of many police/ lawyer shows. "JAG" used the FBI or "the Agency" as chief obstructions to their investigations until they created that organization Palmer worked for. Then, they/he became the convenient target. (NT) -- Dancer, 16:18:16 07/31/05 Sun

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