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Date Posted: 17:34:13 07/30/05 Sat
Author: all
Subject: responses
In reply to: David 's message, "Harm to Bud in the episode "A Separate peace Part 2" and I quote: 'I don't know what it's like to lose a child, but I do know what it's like to lose the woman you love. Wow, has there ever been said a more open ended statement? Who was he talking about? Mac? Diane? Both?. . .Inside" on 17:29:36 07/30/05 Sat

There's also the possibility he was talking about Jordan or Annie. Or maybe it was general statement about all the women he had lost. But I always thought he was talking about Diane, who probably was his 1st real love. I don't think he was talking about Mac. I don't think it was until several episodes later (Touch & Go, Retreat, Hell) that he began to think about his relationship with Mac. At this conversation point, I just don't think he realized his feelings & didn't believe he had "lost" Mac. (NT) -- Araninda, 13:47:31 07/26/05 Tue

I *think* he could have meant all three people. He loved Diane for what could have been, he loved Annie for what might have been had she been able to live with another man whose career was the Navy, and he loved Jordan for what might have been had she been able to live with and love the FJ side of Harm. However, in the latter two cases, Harm denied the "emotional" side of himself because the intellectual side of him knew that it wouldn't work. 1. Annie had had a great love affair with Luke. She still carried that torch. In addition, love might have conquered her fears once (with Luke) but she wasn't doing it again with Harm. Harm, being Harm, wasn't leaving the Navy because he loved it too. In the end, he was willing to sacrifice a woman for his job...so do you see the significance that comes full circle later? 2. Jordan and Harm had something. However, Jordan's refusal to accept Harm's flying stopped Harm dead in his tracks. There was no way he was moving forward with this woman. Besides, he began to see Mac in a different light and I think this applied a few taps on the brake in terms of his ride with Jordan. 3. To insist that Diane was Harm's great love might be a bit of an exaggeration. I do think it's accurate to say that Diane was the great fantasy of "what might have been". People often romanticize a crush, a friendship, or even a lost love to the point of thinking that had they ended up with that person, things might have been different. I had a friend who was ready to throw away her engagement because she *thought* she *might* have a chance with a guy who had never been anything but a friend to her. When I pointed out to her that she was idealizing this guy and what her life might be, she began to see things differently. It's like Harm and his AE. I tell myself daily that he probably has more annoying habits than I could possibly live with. Sometimes, you have to kill the fantasy by using your intellect. LOL. (NT)-- TH, 14:19:07 07/26/05 Tue

TH, you sure do have a way with words I love your assessments here. I wil throw in my 2 cents by pointing out that most folks seem to overlook the fact that Harm himself admits (to Bobbi) that he was in love with Annie before she married Luke ("she married my best friend"). As much as the character, as it evolved, irritated me, I can't ignore the backstory as written. (NT) -- Sunny - i enjoy these kinds of posts so much :), 15:48:41 07/26/05 Tue

I have never felt that he was in love with Annie before she married Luke. The context of the line to Bobbi is pretty up in the air. When Annie asks him if he's in love with anyone in Jinx, he says, "I'm working on it," which sounds to me like he means he's working on falling in love with Annie at that moment. (NT) -- Ann, 23:01:23 07/26/05 Tue

I think Harm love Mac even before T&G but it hasnt really erupted thus he lost control on LL. Im going with TH here because Diane to me is just platonic,Annie was more the instant family ideals then went crash and burn.It was more about Josh filling the gaps he had with his father too,I used care on Jordan not love. Its Mac who he was talking about,the instant audience reaction would always be Mac. (NT) -- Yvonne, 15:20:14 07/26/05 Tue

As for Annie.... I think Harm was always in love with who he thought Annie was... the funloving smart girl his best friend married, then the good mother and wife that belonged to his best friend, then when he got the chance to try her on himself... the illusions are often deeper than the reality. In the end, it was just for JOsh he hung on, but it was definitely because of how he thought he felt that he started with Annie (NT) -- Chris K - who still loves that kiss in STWOA..., 15:55:40 07/26/05 Tue

I think we can agree that much of the "love" he felt for Annie was because of an illusion. Nevertheless, as Sunny pointed out above, Harm tells Bobbi that he loved his best friend's wife. I don't see how it could possibly have been Mac, since Harm wouldn't even admit to Sturigs that he felt anything more than "complicated" feelings even after the LL kiss. I think we have to remember when, in context, he made the comment. (NT) -- TH, 21:49:54 07/26/05 Tue

Neither Harm nor mac could admit to anyone, let alone themselves, that they loved each other; that doesn't mean it isn't true. (NT) -- David, 13:23:03 07/27/05 Wed

Harm told Mac he loved her right before the LL kiss. I don't know if he was talking about Mac in the comment in question, but it's certainly possible. (NT) -- Theresa, 13:26:25 07/27/05 Wed

I'm thinking at that point.. he was talking Mac... If you watch the original skeleton crew.. yes Harm reacted hard, but he didn't have the time to develop a THE woman I love - they were just getting their footing. Jordan, he knew she wasn't THE one, and Annie he seemed more upset about losing Josh than her. I'm thinking at this point- after saying he's only this way with you to Mac... He was thinking he'd lost her - THE woman he loved. (NT) -- Chris K - and now that he finally said something - we know she's the woman of his life .., 14:32:52 07/26/05 Tue

ITA. He was talking about Mac. Especially in the context of Harriet going to Harm to talk about losing baby Sarah because Bud wasn't able to "be there" for Harriet. Just like Mac went to Brumby because Harm couldn't "be there" for her. (NT) -- Sammy, 12:21:40 07/27/05 Wed

I think he was talking about Mac. I think after Boomerang he realized he lost an opportunity. And maybe for Diane because they were supposed to be planning their future when she died. (NT) -- JBgirlygirl, 15:01:06 07/26/05 Tue

David, he could have been talking about Mac if he really believed at that point in time that he had lost her for good to Mic. But because of the circumstances that brought about this conversation (the death of Baby Sarah) I always thought Harm was talking about Diane because she was the only woman he had loved that he had also lost to death. Don't you just love those open ended statements? (NT) -- HiG, 19:15:26 07/26/05 Tue

I think it was *all* of the women that Harm's crashed and burned with. He has 3 who died (Gym, Diane, Jordan) and 3 who left him (Anne, Jordan, Renee). For a drop-dead gorgeous guy who's a pilot and lawyer, Harm has an amazingly bad record with women. No doubt he could pick up as many one-nighters as he wanted, but he doesn't seem to want that for the 10 years we know him (who knows how he acted after Diane and before we meet him). To me, he seems to want a relationship, but doesn't seem to know how to/be able to either chose the right woman or maintain a healthy relationship. IMHO it's because of his inability to communicate his feelings, and I think he actually realizes that. And *that* is what he is trying to tell Bud here...communicate your feelings to the woman you love, don't shut yourself off behind walls. And although I TA that Mac is *the* love of his life, I think Harm loved all those other women in his own somewhat emotionally-constipated way. It wasn't until he opened up to Mattie that he could openly love. Just MO. (NT) -- clr, 19:41:23 07/26/05 Tue

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