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Date Posted: 03:17:25 08/14/05 Sun
Author: all
Subject: responses
In reply to: Araninda 's message, "Episode of the Week Discussion. . .Inside" on 02:59:57 08/14/05 Sun

I haven't watched the ep in a while, so I'm not going to comment on the discussion questions above, but for now I'd just like to say these two things: 1) Harm is so adorable in this season - gosh he's so hot! & 2) Mac's hair looks so good that way - soft and smooth and framing her face. Oh, and from what I can recall, just from looking at the pics, I like the way Harm keeps talking to her, even when they're not seeing eye to eye. He doesn't shut her out about the investigation, but keeps bouncing ideas off of her, even when under the surface they're at odds. (NT) -- The Chief - And he's so cute and funny in a few of those scenes, too., 22:06:22 08/05/05 Fri

Oh, I love this episode. It's definitely in my top-5 all-time favorite JAG episodes. 1) Definitely a 5. When the chips are down, no matter what differences exist between them, Harm and Mac stick together. Wish we'd had more of that in the last 2 1/2 seasons. 2) I'm really not sure. I think we really need to know more about what started the tension between them to begin with. They were working at cross-purposes in the case at the beginning, but WHY? There seems to be some resentment from Mac there that she feels he's doing things in the case without her, but he tells the Admiral that he did tell here. So where's the truth? Probably somewhere in the middle. I think maybe she did see him as trying to be on top in their professional relationship, leading to Harm's feeling that she resents him because she was projecting that on him. I think her statement about trust is her projecting that on him. When he couldn't sleep and was trying to work everything out in his head, he didn't do it on his own. He woke Mac up and told her. Why do that if he didn't trust her? 3) Harm, being a man, realized that any conversation about what was going on between them was going to be deeper than he wanted to do. He probably just figured if he ignored the deeper issues, they would all work themselves out eventually. Yes, there were deeper issues between them - I think it was a combination of the UST (they'd seemed so close in 'Webb Of Lies' but I kind of imagine Harm and Jordan getting closer after what happened to Jordie in that episode and maybe Mac was having problems dealing with that) and what Mac perceived as him trying to be on top professionally (as I pointed out previously, he was trying to talk to her about both cases, but I think there's a part of her that subconsciously was spoiling for a fight, so she wasn't listening to him). 4) I guess I answered a lot of this in the previous question. I think perhaps she was in love with him at this point, but between the mess with Chris and his relationship with Jordan, I think perhaps she felt both 1) she might not have been worthy of him and 2) he was unavailable for her. Jordan was probably the most stable relationship he had with an S.O. and maybe Mac subconsciously thought it could go further (heck, I think the relationship would have lasted if he hadn't returned to flying). She was in love with him, or heading there, but wasn't in a position to admit it, probably even to herself. 5) Can't think of anything that wouldn't be X-rated. It was a good case with twists and turns that keep the viewer guessing - the first time I saw it, I never suspected Hodges until Bud read off his service record to Harm (unlike in later seasons where most of the cases were utterly predictable). Harm and Mac eventually pulled together to protect each other. Mac was the kick-ass Marine. No B, C or D stories to distract from the main action. My only (really teeny-tiny) quibble is not really knowing for sure how Harm and Mac got to the point they were at in this episode.(NT)--TracyJean, 21:29:22 08/05/05 Fri

I give it a 5. Loved their interaction. I would say any time you spend a lot of time with someone naturally you will argue. Sometimes over things that really aren�t that big a deal but because it has built up over time comes out being more of one. I have had this happen with people I work with. Sometimes frustration over other things creeps into a discussion with a coworker that then causes a simple conversation to become a heated discussion. But in the end it�s good to get it out. I also think Mac was starting to really have feelings for Harm but he was with Jordan so knew there was no way anything could happen. I also still think she wasn�t sure how Harm viewed her at this point, as just a good friend or as possibly more. Loved how they worked together at the end to save each other. Totally agree this is how they should have let Mac handle Vic. But for reasons beyond me they wanted him to be the new lead, I guess a bad boy that would grow and mature over time. I wonder sometimes what they were smoking when they came up with Vic�s character.(NT)--Hope, 21:30:57 08/05/05 Fri

Silent Service soars and offers good spirited Jag.It had everything in it including Harm and Mac romance.Yep,TPTB were at it hinting at us again.LOL! I love AJ's face close to his eyes rolling seeing the denial and attraction between his two top lawyers when they bumped at the office. This is what Harm and Mac do best.Deny and fight off their true feelings just like many classic TV/movie lovebirds too. I love Cmdr.Flagler too and we see him again in Iron Coffin another classic Jag ep.(love Tom Amandes too on Everwood) (NT) -- shipper (giving this a 5), 01:32:43 08/06/05 Sat

This is a 5.9 from the Canadian Judge! I LOVE this episode! Yes Mac was in love with him by then and so was he - but not ready to admit it even to himself. The statements? I have always had trouble deciphering H and M's statements to each other. What comes out of their mouth is NOTHING like what they really mean! There is nothing to indicate that Harm does not have faith in Mac, but Mac is definitely edgy about Harm's "status" in this episode. A guy with the guys. That scene after the CPR is my second favorite - my first is when Harm is looking up at Mac drugged and pleading with his eyes.OMIGOD, I am sweating just thinking of it. This episode carried me through a lot of lousy episodes to the finale.(NT)--can j -, 21:44:47 08/05/05 Fri

It's a big FIVE 2) I think she did resent him and maybe she thought he didnt have faith in her, though it contradicts what she told Sokol in TRWL. 3) Harm didnt want to 'go there' because it would have revealed too much, I think the reason for the tension between them is because their feelings were becoming too intense and they used fighting to back away. 4)I beleive Mac thought there were deeper issues but I'm not sure she even knew what they were(Funny that in a later ep when she, Harm, Mic and Renee were talking about Harm not being open with his feelings, that time on the Watertown came up) 5)Bedtime stories....why...JAG fanfiction of course.(NT)--mkim love the pic, one of my favs of all time, 21:45:43 08/05/05 Fri

I definitely agree mkim - they had serious "issues" with each other and both were becoming way for attached to each other than either weas willing to admit. (NT) -- can j - sighing loudly, 21:48:54 08/05/05 Fri

Hmmm, gives a whole new meaning to the Silent Service title...just couldn't talk about their feelings...couldn't even give them "lip service". Mac knew there had been a shift in their realtionship...and Harm was desperately trying to hold on to the "professionalism" approach that had saved him in the past. (NT) -- psych9 Definitely a 5!, 22:38:40 08/05/05 Fri

I think their confrontation was about all of the above...UST and their professional competition...the combination cemented the realtionship. (NT) -- psych9, 22:41:53 08/05/05 Fri

It would be a big "5" with me. I love the whole set-up - especially at the end when they are soooo together on everything. I don't know about everything, but I'll take a shot at #2. At that point in the show, there was really no question who the lead investigator was. It was Harm's team and Mac was definitely "second chair." I've always thought those comments were meant to reflect the possible down side of that arrangement. Harm wanted to know they were still okay and Mac wanted to know she was appreciated. (NT) -- Dancer, 23:06:20 08/05/05 Fri

This is one of my all time favorites! I think they forged a bond in this ep that never would be broken. Mac chewing out the sailors was great and that look from Harm was priceless. Mac's frustration over the "borrowed" PDA was very funny. Harm was so darn cute in this one. Too bad this kind of episode wasn't done in the later seasons. This was a good mix of drama, danger and humor. (NT) -- Shell, 23:39:18 08/05/05 Fri

I love the PDA thing--that was such a perfect touch..lol (NT) -- manette, 02:29:12 08/06/05 Sat

Yeah, this was a great one. IMO, the ST was getting to be too much for them, and neither one (Harm probably less than Mac) wanted to admit that was what it was. They had feelings they didn't want to acknowlege, so they were snarky and snippy with each other to keep it under wraps. Still, in the end, it all came out. Yup, a five for sure. (NT) -- CM>^.,.^< although Black Jet would be my favorite ep of S4, this one gives it a very close run, 08:46:31 08/06/05 Sat

1) It's a five for me--just a great episode. It had everything I love in a JAG episode. Humor, Ust, Danger, Mystery, Playful Harm... 2)I think they were moving to the point that everything that happened in the courtroom didn't stay in the courtroom. Their feelings had moved beyond professionals who were friends to professionals that were starting to feel more than friendship and it came out in a way that made them get defensive with each other. 3) I think the deeper issues were all about the UST and the effect that had on the professional relationship. It through them both off balance. Harm wanted to ignore it rather than talk about it because I think it scared him. He was with Jordan at this time-- but something in his behavior toward Mac must have set warning bells off with Jordan for her to say that sometimes she thought Harm was only hers until Mac decided she wanted him. That is a pretty strong statement to make. 4) I think she was in love with him-probably since Russia and they'd gotten so close after that-Embassy, The Martin Baker Fan Club showed how close they were...but Harm pulled away and turned toward Bobbie even before Mac's history with Chris came to light-- and then after that he got involved with Jordan so Mac must have felt that he didn't feel the same for her. I think that unrequited stuff made it harder to work with him the same way she had before and it made tension between them. 5) Bedtime stories--- show and tell? I like the way the whole tension-- banter--working at cross purposes-- trusting each other when push comes to shove--hug at the end-- all happens and is resolved in one hour--not a whole season.(NT)--manette, 23:53:04 08/05/05 Fri

This is one of my all love affair Jag eps. Its so hard not to love Harm and Mac and not root for them. Most of the audience just know they're so in love for each other. Watching SS episode always reminds me of that movie "Cutting Edge". This gets a 5 from me. (NT) -- Reese, 01:16:47 08/06/05 Sat

ITA Manette. I agree that Mac fell in love with Harm in Russia. I think Harm fell in love with Mac in Russia as well. I think Harm, however, was devastated at finding that him father was not alive (a lot more than he let on. I think finding out about what happened to his father gave him some comfort, but I think it just started the grief process for him (the process that he had put off for approx. 30 years by sticking to the belief that his father was alive). I think the devastation over his father is the reason why he took up with the other women instead of Mac. He loved Mac, but I think he equated love with hurt. I think SS is one of the many episodes that shows (at least to me) that Harm's relationship with Jordan wasn't serious (at least from Harm's perspective). He was sleeping with Jordan, but he had this underlying passion for Mac. As you Manette said, Harm must have been sending out some signals re: his feeling for Mac, because Jordan feared something. I almost think that Harm got involved with Jordan (subconsiously) because she was a psychiatrist and Harm (who I believe would never actively seek out a psychiatrist for help), thought he might get some help with the grief he was feeling re: his father. This episode was a 5 for me.(NT)--Sammy, 09:33:43 08/06/05 Sat

The acting that did it for me. I mean you dont need the dialogue just watch the faces as you scroll through Hopes shots. You cant tell what they are saying and feeling especially for each other just by looking at their facial expressions. These are not just lines they are saying these are ffelings they are evoking with their skill and it shows in the finished product. You believe them and you belive in them (NT) -- Karen, 03:02:17 08/06/05 Sat

Manette and Karen, I can't really add to what you've said but, AMEN!!! It's so fun to watch their expresssions and they really run the gumut!! Love this show! (NT) -- Jaggiegold....a day late and a dollar short!, 10:12:51 08/06/05 Sat

An absolute 5 for me too. Even without the relationship...professional or otherwise, the story was exciting with the munchousen by-proxy doctor, on board. I always enjoy JAG when it takes place on a ship, carrier, or submarine. I like seeing the levels of command, and the way Harm interacts with Captains and CAGs, as well as with enlisted personelle. And he was adorable looking down from the bunk...LOL. There is something about seeing Harm and Mac enclosed within the tight structure of a Navy vessel, that forces them to interact. 2) Was it true that Mac resented Harm? Yes I think so. I think that Mac was in love with Harm, and she knew that their relative positions would hinder any possible admissions from Harm. Add to that, she had to take his lead professionally, as well as personally, it must have made her feel that she had no control on either front. And yes, that has to cause some resentment, even while knowing resent was not rational. She was probably frustrated with herself for feeling that way. I think Harm had personal faith in Mac (how could he not after Russia?), but not 100% professionally. Mac had had too many surprises, and it takes some time to rebuild confidence. 3) This was pure Harm, the guy with the tight reign on his emotions. He had feelings for Mac, there is no doubt in my mine. But I don't believe he had ever examined them. Talking about their professional and personal problems would have forced him to realize he cared about her on a level he just was not ready for, and it scared him. With Jordan, he was safe...he thought. His relationship with Jordan was "allowable." He did care about Jordan, and she would have been perfect for him had he fallen in love with her. They had a serious relationship, and maybe Harm thought that he could skate along with her, a beautiful, intelligent, sweet woman. And while she was there, he could put any thoughts of Mac on the back burner, so to speak. 4)Of course Mac thought there were deeper issues. Yes she was totally in love with Harm and had been for a long time. But he was always with another woman, and kept Mac at the appropriate (H)arm's length. But she must have perceived that he felt more for her. She wanted to talk and have these feelings surface. I think she was prepared to risk everything to hear him say he loved her, but she knew this was not going to happen. Remember she admitted to Jordan that she was jealous of Jordan being in a "hot new romance." No kidding!!! Can you imagine how that must have felt seeing Harm and Jordan hot and heavy? Liking Jordan would almost make it worse. 5)A good bedtime story would be watching An Affair to Remember, (Cary Grant and Deborah Kerr..the one where she becomes confined to a wheel chair and they don't meet as planned at the top of the Empire State Bld.)with Harm. Can you imagine the effect of that movie on them both if they were alone in close quarters? What I loved was their reconciliation. When the chips were down, they could rely on each other entirely. And just look at the pic above. There is no way that their relationship wasn't filled with emotion. Those are not the looks and gestures anyone would make with just a colleague or even a close friend. If that isn't the relief of knowing that someone you love is safe after great danger, then nothing is. The only time they come close to showing that kind of atmospheric passion again, is in the bar in FWAFS, when Mac comes in and they kiss. Your pet peeve about Mac not telling Vik off. When she tells off the young guys, she is relatively new to this kind of scenario, and she just busted their chops. With Vic, she was more mature, and might have cut him some slack, waiting for him to settle down, so to speak. He was a fellow officer, and often a partner on cases. I'm not making excuses for Vic. On the contrary, I disliked Vic intensely and had no respect for the character. I'm just saying that Mac's position with Vic was entirely different than it was with the sailors on the sub. I was so happy in the end when she told Vic what she really thought of him, but he remained insolent to the end.(NT)--Cece, 11:02:02 08/06/05 Sat

Wow, Cece! I would say you took the words right out of my mouth, but my words would never have been as eloquent as yours! LOL! Since I can't say anything that hasn't already been said, I'll just say that I LOVE this ep, I give it a 4.75. The only thing that it was missing that would have bumped it up to a 5 would have been mkim's follow up scene that is over on the HBX board right now! (NT) -- JAG Junkie--and NO mkim did not put me up to saying that! LOL!, 12:09:57 08/06/05 Sat

Well, Cece said it all for me, so I'll just add that I rate this as one of my all time favorite episodes - the setting, the mix of drama, mystery, humor, sexual tension - aaah, those were the good old days :) (NT) -- Sunny - giving this episode a 5, 12:42:14 08/06/05 Sat

I did love this episode. What I loved about their interaction is that it was realistic. They had been partners for so long and like Mac said, it was enevitable. But though they were arguing I saw no meaness, just frustration. Thelast two years of JAG there was biting sarcasm rather then normal tension. That's the difference. i loved how it was worked out by saving each others lives. (NT) -- judi, 12:43:58 08/06/05 Sat

Too true judi, when I didnt recognize the relationship that Harm and Mac had the last couple of seasons this is one of the many season 4 eps I would watch to see them as I did in my head. (NT) -- mkim Two flawed but likeable characters who happened to be fallling in love with each other...sigh, 12:52:01 08/06/05 Sat

Something else I just thought of that made me just love this ep. DID ANYONE NOTICE HOW MUCH TOUCHING THEY DID??? I know it was necessary because Mac couldnt see and Harm couldnt talk but when you look at all the eps they stay out of each others space and seldom really touched. In SS they did alot of holding and eye contact. WOOHOO that is one reason it was such a great shipper ep. (NT) -- mkim, 12:55:45 08/06/05 Sat

YES!! As someone whose love language is "physical touch", I noticed that right away and that is why this ep is one of my all-time favorites. In case you have no idea what I am talking about when I say "love language", I am referring to the book "The Five Love Languages" by Gary Chapman. I highly recommend it. (NT) -- JAG Junkie--wich we could have seen more touching through the years...sigh..., 13:11:10 08/06/05 Sat

Wondering how they "interacted" during the remainder of their time on the sub. LOL (NT) -- Vicky, 14:50:35 08/06/05 Sat

I really enjoy and in agreeing with the takes of Sammy,Hope,Cece,Sammy,Reese and canj. This is among the best of Jag as in Jag fabulousness and Harm and Mac shipper smackingly juicy. I remembered seeing the preview on this and wasnt too psyched but the episode turns out to be so good and truly entertained me. That's the difference with some online and offline fans because online fans are to the detail while many offline fans do want some details too but overall we take it for what it is because we're very aware how producers and Bellisario(TV bosses) can be.
The love and friendship with Harm and Mac was always alive but they were just way toned down unlike previous eps
and Harm and Mac were barely on the scenes together as opposed to in the early seasons they're always working together or on opposing teams. As for Vic(cant stand the loser too) but Cece explained the difference so well with those sailors and we all know Vic was all the show's promotional gimmicks for more JAG.(NT)--Joely, 19:04:59 08/06/05 Sat

I really have to say Harm & Mac were like my cousin and cousin in law.The first time they met it everyone just knew they're so have the hot for each other but they pretended to be snarky,ignore and play mean to each other.Even my cousin puts her down when we have a serious talk only I know he's in love with her and jealous with other guys hitting on my cousin in law.I always roll my eyes at their snarkiness because its all foreplay. I warned him too about the saying the more you hate the more you love.Now their marriage is still firey and their 3rd baby on the way. (NT) -- Joely, 20:54:23 08/06/05 Sat

Great writing, great story line, and Harm and Mac working together to solve the case. It remains one of my all-time faves. (NT) -- NanaSue, 13:59:21 08/07/05 Sun

Ah, what a great pic to come from vacation to! I was out of town, so I didn't get to vote, but SS was my very first episode of JAG (repeated on USA). After watching the last ten minutes, I was online finding out everything I could about this JAG show and these Harm and Mac people. That was two summers, hundreds of episodes, and tons and tons of fanfic ago, and I've been obsessed ever since! (NT) -- Kristie, 16:28:55 08/07/05 Sun

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