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Date Posted: 10:22:30 07/05/02 Fri
Author: Adriano Quadrado
Subject: From Brazil Again !!

Hi, folks!

I am reposting bellow all the stuff I wrote for the old forum, which was hacked by Chinmoy spies, deleted by Yahoo or whatever.

I also made a Brazilian website telling the truth about this horrible cult created by Sri Chinmoy and perpetuated by his poor disciples (I know, I was one of them). The site is only beginnig, still under construction, and we are going to have much more, if Apa****** could not hack it.

I can put your stories or comments in English if you send me them by email. Like a guest book or whatever, feel free to send me anything.

Check it out: http://geocities.yahoo.com.br/sobresrichinmoy/

Now, I copy the stories bellow. Some of them were replies to other messages, so it may seems a little confusing.

Anyway, bye for now.

Adriano - aquadrado@hotmail.com


FIRST POST - EX FROM BRAZIL

Hello, everybody. My name is Adriano, I am a former SC disciple from Sao Paulo Center, in Brazil. After 4 years and 3 months I quit. I am leaving after "studying" this forum for four or five days. I left because of this web site, and I am telling it for you all to know how powerful this thing is. This web site is changing people's lives immensely. I just want you to be conscious of that.

When I say that I left because of this forum I am not suggesting that I had never thought about the things expressed here. I always thought there was something wrong about the center. Always. All the strange and sad things that I experienced I could not accept because of the forced belief that SC was no other than God Himself.

We all felt the pressure, the control, the lack of spontaneity, the weird little (and big) things going on. We all felt them. As we all also felt good meditations, high consciousness, spiritual progress etc. And that is why the question is so complex. But, being out of the center, I now can openly accept the "dark side" also.

I did not consider the sex stories when I decided to leave. I could not base my decision only in stories that are told in the internet. They may be true, they may be false. I do not know the people who are telling them. But that was not important for my decision. I made my decision considering only my own sad stories and my own doubts. I could not deny them anymore.

I will just cite one absolutely undeniable fact:

The center made and still makes many people feel miserable. This is true. And I always noticed it. I always saw that many people were (and still are) miserable. That is what this web site is all about. It is a forum where people can tell their sad experiences in the center for the readers to know they are not alone, they are not crazy, impure or simply "disobedient" to the will of God.

All the control and the crazy things were swallowed and repressed because of that simple mathematical formula: Sri Chinmoy = God Almighty.

The path is based on it. Everything works because people are led to believe that SC is no other than God. Many many times we all thought in silence: "this is not a thing that God was supposed to do, this is so strange, so human (in the bad sense of the term)." But again we swallowed our doubt, "the worst possible impurity."

The reason that I left is that I cannot do it anymore. I do not believe that SC is God. I do not. I do not. And if it is not clear enough I will say again: I do not believe that SC is God.

There was always something wrong with the center. There is no more. Everything fits now.

Well, everything but the fact that I had nice spiritual experiences with SC. I know that I made "spiritual progress". I know that SC can compose such wonderful devotional songs and teach nice things. He does not look like a fraud when he meditates. And I do not agree that the "rules" are necessarily bad, even the celibacy thing, depending on the seeker. What I am saying is that, in spite of so many bad things, the path has also good things.

But that is the amazing and complex creation of God. The universe is such a vast, magic, surprising, wonderful and mysterious place. And that is why we cannot put it in a box, in a totally controlled path that brings fear and sorrow for so many. I feel very happy now that the world became mysterious and surprising again. I feel free, I feel good.

I do not know who SC is. There is an ultimate truth about him and about all. Is he just a powerful yogi that can also make mistakes? I do not know the answer for sure. As we have not realized the Truth yet, we can only stay with our beliefs. The truth will come one day. But now I can only count on my belief. And I sincerely do not believe anymore that he is God. I do not.

What puzzles me when I thing about this subject (assuming that he is not God), is if he knows he is imperfect, and, even knowing it, still be capable of lying to his disciples. Or if he does not know it, if he really thinks he is the avatar, as madmen think they are Napoleon. It is a total mystery too me.

There is finally the last and least probable possibility that he is really the Avatar of the Universe, the most powerful and the last avatar that will put his divine feet on earth.

It is really hard to believe it now, because we know his path hurts so many people. We know he calls his own ex-students hostile forces. In the other side, we see Jesus forgiving the very people who were torturing and killing him in the most brutal way. This sounds much more how an avatar would behave, doesn't it?

But who knows? Certainly not me. I only know that I do believe in God Almighty, my Father and Mother Eternal. He/She will always be with us all and forgive us all if we are making any mistake speaking ill of the "avatar".

Anyway, even if he is the avatar, he is not "my" avatar any longer. I am cutting off all the links that bind me to him. That is my karmic bet. I am calmly betting that he is not God, that I shall find some other way to develop my spirituality, which is real and precious to me.

I am happy, I am calm. I am not mad with him, on the contrary, I am grateful. I do not regret the time I spent in the center. I recognize I progressed spiritually and that I had nice experiences.

One of those experiences is happening now: I am leaving it behind.

God bless you all. Thanks a lot.

Adriano Quadrado
Sao Paulo - Brazil
aquadrado@hotmail.com

PS - I will come back here to tell you other interesting stories (yes, I can speak now!) Keep reading, please.


THE MATRIX

When the movie "The Matrix" came out I was already on the path. So I could not really look at it in the right way. I loved it. And I thought I could use it as a metaphor for scaping from the oblivious ordinary life controlled by desire. There is much truth in saying people are controlled by desire, so that was a very nice metaphor indeed (it is still).

But now, out of the center, I realize that the metaphor is much more convincing whem it is applied over the cult issue. The shock experienced by Neo (the protagonist of the movie) is more like the shock a disciple experience reading this forum. Neo had a really hard time when he discovered that he was living in bondage, when he saw that "reality" was not real, when he realized that he had no control over his own life.

By the way, I ask you all to think again how it is extremely painful for a disciple to read all this. Nothing can be the same after reading this forum. Either you have hardly to compress all the facts that are presented to you into the "SC = God" law system or you have to completely destroy your belief system. I feel really sorry for the poor spies who are forced to read all this and also invent some answer for the unanswerable facts.

As it is shown in the movie, the people who are in the system will fight to the death to protect the very thing that binds them. And it is surely not wise to try to wake up who cannot do it or do not want to do it.

Yesterday I saw the movie once again, but from a completely different perspective. Below you read the last lines said by Neo, after he achieved perfect control over the Matrix. It goes like that:

"I know you are out there. I can feel you now. I know that you are afraid. You are afraid of us. You are afraid of change. I don't know the future. I didn't come here to tell you how this is going to end. I came here to tell you how it is going to begin. I am going to hang up this phone and then I am going to show these people what you don't want them to see. I am going to show them a world without you. A world without rules and controls, without borders or boundaries. A world where anything is possible."

God bless you.

Adriano


ABOUT YOUR COMMENTS

Thank you, people, for your comments. I would like to answer to some of them.

James said: "Do you really need someone else to help you cry for God? I think not! Does God really ask you to come to Him through someone else? I don't think so. Following another is really just a distraction, an escape of facing ourselves."

Well, James, I do not think that having a master is necessarily bad. On the contrary, I think that having a true master may be something really cool. The problem is that we had a bad experience with the master-disciple trip. The truth is that we badly hoped that the "avatar of the ages" story would be true. Wouldn't it be great if he was really the avatar? Unfortunatelly he is not, so the experienced seems to be all wrong.

Some may choose to have a master because they cannot stand the heavy world on their shoulders. It is easier to give the responsability of your life to someone who says that you do not have to worry anymore, that he will lead to the golden shore. Some go to a master because of a psychological weakness, or, as you said, as an escape of facing themselves.

I dare to think that this was not my case. I came to SC because I was trying to reach God. And of course a path can give you "tools" to proceed. Just an example: I smoked for 10 years. I was pretty convinced that I had to stop, because it was physically and spiritually harmful. But I could not make it on my own, because when you are on your own you can postpone things for ever. But within the first month on the path I quit smoking. This is just a small and trivial example.

A path, a spiritual comunity and a master can definitively help the seekers. A master is a guide, an inspiration, a way to go faster. He has to be.

The only purpose of my life is still God. I had some experiences (on the path and out of it) that showed me that feeling divine love for all is the best thing in the world. It is pure nectar. I want to feel it again and stay there for ever. I don't want to have a wife, have kids, travel the world, go to parties etc. I want only God. That's why I stayed on the path for four years, even suspecting that there was something wrong with it. That's why I am ready to try another path and even to have another master if I think he will help me to feel the divine love again. Unfortunatelly SC could not do it. But the master-disciple dream must exist in a fulfilling way somewhere, somehow.

The bad thing about being here on the other side is that it seems I will be next to those dudes who claim to unmake mind programming, brain washing; those PHD psychiatrists who read a lot and think they know everything about human beings; those atheists who think all the masters are just psychic vampires. I do not want to be next to them. I still believe in the realized master dream even if SC is a fraud and if my path, from now on, is to be on my own.

Second comment. Btrascend said: "I hope you show all the disciples in Sao Paulo a world without the limits and boundaries of the prison called the Sri Chinmoy Centre!"

As I told you, Btrascend, I am not sure that the people want to leave him. I do not want to bear the responsability for taking them out. Some people will stay with SC till the end, no matter what. So throwing this web site on their faces will only make them suffer a lot. Many people are not ready to scape from the Matrix. Many just don't want to. I think the people who are ready to be unplugged will come out sooner or later. In my case, as I said, I thought there was something strange, I searched for the answers. Let them search for themselves.

The other point is that I think the SC experience is not useless. It was not useless for me. SC may be not "the" God. But he is also God, as everybody is. So everything is just fine. We came to the center because it was the experience we need. We came out for the same reason. Everything is in its right place and time. The truth will prevail. God is everywhere.

Finally, we have Starananda's comment: "Chinmoy is not an avatar. He might be more enlightened than those under his guidance..."

Starananda, this is the question that puzzles me, as I said before. Who is he? I know he is far more advanced than me in terms of yogic experience. That's why I cannot judge him. Maybe he is a positive master in some way, I don't know. At least, maybe he thinks he is. I haven't had a tragic personal experience with him. The four years I stayed in the center were useful. I became a better person: more mature, less egocentric. But I know he also hurts people.

Maybe he suffers from the same problem which people say Alo has. People told me that Alo was close to illumination but then she fell. Everybody knows she claims to be realized (I heard she saying that), but it was totally clear to everybody that her consciousness was pretty ordinary. Of course SC is more than her and more than me. But has he got a real high realization? Maybe he thinks he is realized. Maybe he is not cynic. He really thinks he is helping the world. Who knows?


TO ROSE

Rose,

There are three centers in Brazil: Sao Paulo, Rio and Curitiba. There are about 30 disciples. I haven't told anyone about this website. I have told only my friends ex-disciples. Everybody who read it changed his point of view.

But I tell you that I do not want to contact the others because I think a person should take care of his own life. One of the things that bothered me in the center was that I had to recruit others to the "path", not knowing if it was better for their lives. I do not have to do it anymore. I do not want to be responsable for changing other people's lives anymore.

The infos are here for everybody to know about them. This is the internet, the most democratic medium and I think people should seek the truth for themselves. I did it. They can also do it.

Also, as I said to Btrascend in another post, I am not sure if the people want to leave him. Some people will stay with SC till the end, no matter what. Many people are not ready to scape from the Matrix. Many just don't want to. I think the people who are ready to be unplugged will come out sooner or later.

When I was on the path, I was instructed to get new disciples. Now I do not want to work on getting ex-disciples! I just want to let it go. I gave all the SC stuff away: photos, CDs, books. I just cut everything off. I don't care. I don't want to spend my time now thinking about the "dark side", complaining about it, trying to publicize this website, creating the "anti-manifestation-team-work", even guessing that this one is indeed "infinitely better and happier" than the regular one. :-)

The other thing is that I believe that the center experience is not necessarily bad or useless. It was not for me. They can learn good life lessons staying on the path. And even if they get hurt, maybe this is the right thing for their human and spiritual development.

Now I am not sure anymore about "the will of God", so I do not want to interfere in other people's lives. I am not sure. Thank God! I do not have to be "sure" anymore. As I said, life started to be mysterious again. And that's nice.

Finally I do believe in God, so I know he is going to take care of everything. I understand that he may use some of you for the anti-manifestation war. But I know this is not my task here.

Anyway, the addresses of the Brazilian disciples are in the directory. If you want, you can send them letters.

I spent many hours reading this forum, thinking about everything, making big decisions in my life, wrinting my own posts. But now I want to let it go. The path is no more in my life. Just that.

God bless you.

Adriano
aquadrado@hotmail.com

PS - Maybe I will change my mind about it. Now I can freely change my mind...


ABOUT CRYING FOR GOD

About crying for God. In spite of SC being a false avatar or whatever, I think that crying for God can be a good way to reach The Supreme Dude, as well as any other method can work nicely too. It is true that we have everything within us, but crying for God may be a way of convincing oneself about that, like a trick to undo the "magic", the feeling that we are separated from God. We can cry, we can pray, we can become a shaman, we can sing, we can meditate on Shiva, on Jesus, on us, anything. There is nothing on earth that is not an instrument of God.

Even Chinmoy. Yes, he is, even if he is doing it in a way he could never imagine. I don't think we should necessarily discard everything he said. He told us nice things about the Vedanta philosophy and those are true, or, at least, can be true for a particular seeker. Every seeker has to find his own way. For some, the Vedanta philosophy (not chinmoy-ism, because it is not really his) may be useful. So it can be good to meditate, pray, wake up early, run, sing, do selfless service (the real one, towards community), avoid meat, and even be a celibate for the ones who this practice is really a blessing not a curse.

Well, now updating the Brazilian scenario. Four people left the center because of this web site. I mean, I was the first one to come to know about it. I told a friend from Rio about it and he left too. I also told many ex-disciples, some of them were feeling guilty, as if they have fallen from some real nice path due to "vital" problems or something. One of these ex-disciples from Curitiba infomed two other people about the stories here and they also left. So we are four until now and all the ones who became ex-disciples before this website are with us. We are planning to meet this month to start a democratic group of seekers, at least a nice group of friends. We are also thinking in ways to tell the disciples who remain there, but they are avoiding us as if we were crazy dark lethal devils, so it's tough. I am very happy that Cristina (Plavita) wrote for the first time on this forum and I encourage others to do the same if they feel like it.

Finally I copy bellow one of the "prayers" that were given by SC in the last Xmas Trip for you to see how it is possible to use the name of God to control and manipulate people, in this case to make disciples fear to contact "hostile forces" that are talking about some shocking sex stories ("absurd gossip" !!) involving the master. Here you are:


"My Lord, some friends who have
Betrayed me and are no longer with me
And some friends who are still with me,
But mix with them and talk with them
And receive wild and absurd gossip
And spread it all around,
What shall I do with them?
My child, your time is extremely
Precious on earth.
Throw them out of your heart.
Throw them out of your mind
And throw them out of your life
Immeadiately.
You do not need
These so called friends."


Sorry for the bad memories. But I thought you guys would like to know about it.

God bless you all.

Adriano
aquadrado@hotmail.com


I AM SORRY FRIEND

I am sorry, friend, but I think you did not understand my point. I am not being egocentric here. You do not know my disciple-friends here in Brazil and certainly you do not care for them as much as I do. They are my friends, my true friends. I love them and I respect them. Just because I love them I am afraid of doing something that may interfere in a experience they want/have to go through.

Perhaps I was not clear enough. When I said "I don't care" I was refering to my own attitude towards SC. I do not want to think about him. I don't want to spend my time in some reverse devotion, focusing my energy in destroying his "mission". I honestly do not hate him, far from it. My experience was not bad. I learned something.

But I do care for my friends. I care so much that I do not want to destroy an experience that they decided to have. I take the responsability for my own experience. I do not think that I was fooled. I had what I was looking for. And I guess they are in the same position.

I guess. I am not sure. And because I am not sure I will do nothing now. Maybe, as I said, I will change my mind. But now I do not want to do anything. And it is so great NOT to be sure.

The other thing is that I did not lose my faith in God. I trust him so much that I know he will take care of my friends. Please, understand this. You may not believe life works that way. But at least believe that I believe it. I do believe that God gave me an experience with a false master and that he released me when he thought it was enough. I trust God. I do. Blindly.

Btrancend said when we were disciples we tried to bring others to convince ourselves about the avatar tale. I totally agree. But now I am so certain about my decision that I do not need my disciple-friends to leave with me so that I can be cool with my decision to take off. No problem, man. They can be there if they want. I still love them. I care for them. But God cares much more. I think he will do a better job than me.

But this does not mean you are wrong to anti-manifest. The ones who are so sure about the anti-manifestation task just go ahead. You guys have the international directory to tell everybody about the website. Just do it.

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