Questions #6,7,8 & 9 -- The Apostolic Defender Board

[ Show ]

Support VoyForums

[ Shrink ]

VoyForums Announcement: Programming and providing support for this service has been a labor of love since 1997. We are one of the few services online who values our users' privacy, and have never sold your information. We have even fought hard to defend your privacy in legal cases; however, we've done it with almost no financial support -- paying out of pocket to continue providing the service. Due to the issues imposed on us by advertisers, we also stopped hosting most ads on the forums many years ago. We hope you appreciate our efforts.

Show your support by donating any amount. (Note: We are still technically a for-profit company, so your contribution is not tax-deductible.) PayPal Acct: Feedback:

Donate to VoyForums (PayPal):

[ Login ] [ Contact Forum Admin ] [ Main index ] [ Post a new message ] [ Search | Check update time ]

[ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

Date Posted: 08:06:12 10/05/02 Sat
Author: PFP
Subject: Questions #6,7,8 & 9
In reply to: Peter from Portland (PFP) 's message, "36 answers for futurists" on 13:34:53 09/29/02 Sun

6. Revelation 20 indicates that those who do not take part in the 1st resurrection will have to face the 2nd death, which is the lake of fire, and since the Preterists say the first resurrection is past, should not we be a little concerned since we are still here and have obviously missed that 1st one?

Answer:
The Bible, and therefore preterism, teaches that the Resurrection of Jesus Christ was the �First Resurrection� (Collissians 1:18, Revelation 1:5)
Those who do not �take part� in the resurrection of Jesus Christ will indeed face the 2nd death.

7. If the second coming of Jesus was spiritual and occurred in 70AD, were the Apostolic believers resurrected (spiritually or physically) at that "cloud coming of Christ," or did they also miss the 1st resurrection and can only look forward to the lake of fire at the 2nd resurrection after they die?

Answer:
Again, The Bible, and therefore preterism, teaches that the 1st resurrection was the resurrection of Jesus Christ. No Christian (hopefully) has �missed out� on that resurrection. As for 70AD, note that the resurrection is the resurrection of the �DEAD�. Nowhere is it taught that the living are ever resurrected. Even Christ had to die first before He was resurrected.

Paul believed that the Lord would return in his lifetime. He preached strongly about the second coming, the resurrection, and judgement, but he never spoke of a physical "rapture" for living Christians.
It is not the physical body that is raptured. It is the Christian himself who is raptured as he leaves his body behind at physical death and moves into the spiritual realm.The Bible, and thereofre preterism, teaches that the dead believers were to be resurrected when Christ returned, and all other Christians would be caught up at a later time (1 Thess 4)
2 Corinthians 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house, this tent, is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

The rapture takes place at death, when we leave our earthly house and move into our spiritual house.
In looking at the related passages of what immediately followed the parousia, we find the phrases: "Gather the elect from the four winds" in Matt. 24:31; "Each in his own turn" in 1 Cor. 15:23; "We who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever" in 1 Thessalonians 4:17; and "Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on" in Rev. 14:13. These are all equivalent, and are all applicable for us today. The process of being "snatched" or "caught away from" death and Hades and being "gathered in" straight to heaven began in A.D. 70. The "rapture" deals with a passage to the heavenly realm. All believers are all snatched away when they die. Revelation 11:18 is clear in showing an ongoing condition in the new age that began at A.D. 70� "blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on." This gathering began with the consummation of the kingdom, after the resurrection of the dead saints out of Hades, and continues throughout this age.
The writer of Hebrews wrote:
Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment,

We won't escape physical death, we all have an appointment with it. But when we do die physically, we are "raptured" into the heavenly realm, "And thus we shall always be with the Lord."

8.If Jesus came in 70 AD, do those who were not ready at that time have a second chance after that "rapture?" Does this teach "another gospel?"

See previous answer

9. If there is no future antichrist, or false prophet, no mark of the beast, no future tribulation, no future problems as depicted in the seals, trumpets and vials of Revelation, no future "catching away" of the saints, no future millennial kingdom, then is all that remains for us only a final judgment?

In other words, if all is fulfilled, �where is my hope�?

1.Righteousness was a hope of the New Testament church:
Galatians 5:5 (NKJV) For we through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
2. Salvation was a hope of the New Testament church:
1 Thessalonians 5:8 (NKJV) But let us who are of the day be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet the hope of salvation.
3. Eternal life was a hope of the New Testament church:
Titus 1:2 (NKJV) in hope of eternal life which God, who cannot lie, promised before time began,
Titus 3:7 (NKJV) that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
Now, if we were to tell people that we have eternal life, salvation, and righteousness right now, would they ask us, "Where is my hope?" No, because they believe they have those things now. But eternal life, salvation, and righteousness were all a hope of those who lived in "this age". Eternal life, salvation, and righteousness became the full possession of the church at the second coming, which happened at the end of the Old Covenant age.
At the end of the Old Covenant age in AD 70, which was the last day (of the Old Covenant), several things happened:
1. Christ returned:
2 Timothy 4:1 (NKJV) I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will (mello: about to come) judge the living and the dead at His appearing and His kingdom:
Hebrews 10:37 (NKJV) "For yet a little while, And He who is coming will come and will not tarry.
2. The resurrection occurred:
John 11:24 (NKJV) Martha said to Him, "I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day."
This was the "last day" of "this age," "the age to come" has no last days. So, the resurrection was to happen at the end of the Old Covenant age when the Lord returned.
3. The judgement occurred:
Matthew 13:40 (NKJV) "Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age.
Since the "this age" of the Bible ended in AD 70 with the destruction of the temple and the coming of the Lord, we must be in "the age to come." And if we are in "the age to come," then Christ has already returned, the resurrection has already happened and the judgement of the nations has taken place.
Notice what Jesus said the believers would receive in the age to come:
Mark 10:29-30 (NKJV) So Jesus answered and said, "Assuredly, I say to you, there is no one who has left house or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or lands, for My sake and the gospel's, 30 "who shall not receive a hundredfold now in this time; houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and lands, with persecutions; and in the AGE TO COME, ETERNAL LIFE.
As we saw, eternal life was a "hope" to those who lived in "this age" but it is a present possession of all believers in the "age to come," which is the New Covenant age.
Now, since the second coming, the resurrection, the judgement, eternal life, salvation and righteousness have already come, why should they be our hope? You don't hope for what you have:
Romans 8:24-25 (NKJV) For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance.
As preterists, we are not taking hope away; we are saying it is fulfilled. We have as a present possession what the early church only hoped for.
So, What Is Our Hope Today?
To those who do not believe in Jesus Christ, there is no hope:
Ephesians 2:12 (NKJV) that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.
But for all of us who have placed our trust in Jesus Christ, our hope is heaven. Remember what we said; Biblical hope is not finger-crossing. It is a confident expectation of good things to come.
2 Corinthians 5:1 (NKJV) For we know that if our earthly house, this tent, is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
Paul is using "tent" here as the physical body. This is the same way that Peter uses it in:
2 Peter 1:13-14 (NKJV) Yes, I think it is right, as long as I am in this tent, to stir you up by reminding you, 14 knowing that shortly I must put off my tent, just as our Lord Jesus Christ showed me.
Believer, some day we will physically die, and when that happens, we will not go out of existence, and we will not go to the Lake of fire, we will go to heaven.
2 Corinthians 5:6-8 (NKJV) So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord. 7 For we walk by faith, not by sight. 8 We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.
Our hope (hope meaning: "absolute certainty about the future") is that when we leave this body at death, we will be with the Lord in Heaven.

[ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]